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Ok DUers, time to put some MISINFORMATION to REST:

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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:27 AM
Original message
Ok DUers, time to put some MISINFORMATION to REST:
Hillary and Barack did not sign a pledge with the DNC.

They signed a pledge amongst themselves to not campaign in FL or MI.

They did not sign a pledge to not seat delegates, the DNC (Howard Dean) made that rule. It was not a rule agreed to by a pledge amongst the candidates.

As a matter of fact, Howard Dean will tell you that there have always been ways to have the delegates of Fl and MI seated, either through new primaries/caucuses or through the credentialing committee.


So please try to stop being so misinformed.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Correct me if I'm wrong MassDem,
but I also thought Dean said the delegates could be awarded, before the convention, if both candidates agreed to that.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I think he said if the two candidates could find a way to come to agreement. nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. As we speak, Howard Dean is ordering a tank battalion for FL and MI
to crush the rebellion!

Bill Nelson's head will hang from the tallest lamp post in Disneyland!
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That would be a fitting end to the mess Bill Nelson's created...
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:37 AM by yourguide
"I'm going to disneyworld!!!!" :rofl:


stupid side note: By the way, it's disneyworld in FL, the only reason I remember this is because disneyland is in the LA metro area and disneyland has LA in the spelling.



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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Right you are on Disneyland. But you missed it on Howard Dean.
He's a good man.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Love Howard Dean
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:39 AM by yourguide
it's Bill Nelson's head you were talking about hanging from a lamp post at disney.


That would be a fitting end to the mess Bill Nelson created...again "I'm going to DisneyWorld!!!!"


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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Howard Dean is not a leader in this mess he helped create. nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sure he is. He's a great leader. An excellent choice to lead the party.
Innovative, brainy, tough, true-spirited, hard-working, well-read.

Love the guy.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:42 AM
Original message
FL and MI created this mess
not dean.


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. Agree. And the documentation is there for anyone to see.
I love your screen name.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Have to give props to Madfloridian for
all of the poster's hard work in educating all of us.

what I dont understand is how the media allows Bill Nelson to get away with blaming the rethugs in FL for this. why they dont say "Every Dem in your state except for 1 voted for this?"

and seriously, you know - if this really is the rethugs fault (not) I have a great idea, why dont they make the RNC pay for a do-over since they are responsible for this :sarcasm:



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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. It's maybe going to become a test case reference for big reform in
the nominating process.

With the rise of "the internets" the world has gotten small quickly, tho no less complex.

I'd love to see Dean convene a new blood/old guard panel to propose blueprints for rotational primaries where all candidates can have time to raise grassroots support.

Then a 50-state presence for our party would provide stronger support for Senate votes for people like Evan Bayh and Ben Nelson. They often abandon our issues, returning only now and then, and I think with a stronger support system in place, we'd get a deeper shade of blue.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. --a reference to Nelson the Freedom Fighter against the Northern Liberal
Howard Dean.

I've never been terribly impressed with Bill Nelson. I'm sure he was a dandy astronaut. He's not as dynamic a Democrat, though.

I'm empowered by Howard. Fifty-state strategy? You bet.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Just goes to show that the 50 state strategy does work...
Considering that HRC deployed the "ignore 40 states" strategy.

:rofl:

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. ! Well, the states she's WON were TERRIBLY important!
Obama's states? Naaaaaaaaaaa.

!
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. The one's obama won dont count remember ?
:rofl: :rofl:


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. That's right! Plus, who cares how all those damn latte-gulpers vote
anyway?!
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. You'll have to pardon me
while I finish my latte with ALL of my latte drinking friends in Georgia. We are going to go put on our birkenstocks and form a drum circle now...

:rofl: :rofl:


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. LOL!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, the DNC is reponsible for rules.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:42 AM by mmonk
The pledges were candidates' words and agreement.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well I can say Hillary kept her pledge and did not campaign in FL or MI
Not so for Barack.

But that doesn't matter at this point. There was no pledge to not seat delegatges.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Pretending that she is enamoured with the voting rights
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:50 AM by mmonk
of Floridians or Michigan is disingeneous. Who was on the ballot in Michigan?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. I am not pretending anything. Why do you profess to know?
I have said MI should be redone and FL should stand as is.

But to use the argument that they pledged this that and the other thing is disingenous.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Oh STOP
if she is going after pledged delegates it's quite clear her agenda is not the will of the people but for her to win at any cost.


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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
24. Information: Harold Ickes sat on the DNC Rules Committee and voted to sanction FL and MI
Now he changes his mind, because it doesn't benefit his candidate.

Harold Ickes, a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign who voted for Democratic Party rules that stripped Michigan and Florida of their delegates, now is arguing against the very penalty he helped pass.
In a conference call Saturday, the longtime Democratic Party member contended the DNC should reconsider its tough sanctions on the two states, which held early contests in violation of party rules. He said millions of voters in Michigan and Florida would be otherwise disenfranchised - before acknowledging moments later that he had favored the sanctions.
Ickes explained that his different position essentially is due to the different hats he wears as both a DNC member and a Clinton adviser in charge of delegate counting. Clinton won the primary vote in Michigan and Florida, and now she wants those votes to count.
"There's been no change," Ickes said. "I was not acting as an agent of Mrs. Clinton. We had promulgated rules and those rules said the timing provision ... provides for certain sanctions, automatic sanctions as a matter of fact, if a state such as Michigan or Florida violates those timing provisions."
"With respect to the stripping, I voted as a member of the Democratic National Committee. Those were our rules and I felt I had an obligation to enforce them," he said.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080216/D8URLU1O0.html
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Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Agreements
It doesn't make any difference what the candidates signed onto, agreed to, or anything else. The DNC sets the rules for the party, and they are running for the nomnation of that party. It's like a German running for President of the USA, and when someone points out that foreign-born can't be President, him or her saying: "I didn't agree to that!"
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