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MSNBC on-air, Newsweek poll: "Clinton erases Obama's national lead"

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:01 AM
Original message
MSNBC on-air, Newsweek poll: "Clinton erases Obama's national lead"
My fellow Obama supporters: The more you beat up on Hillary, the more you summon support to her. Haven't we seen this happen again and again in this campaign. Just a thought -- and/or a word to the wise.

And I'm curious, and have another, more personal, question. Do any of you who hate Hillary, and belittle and dismiss her supporters, have people you love who support her? I do. I know the hatred on this board comes from two directions, but -- and I know, and don't need to be reminded of the reasons -- more of it is directed against Hillary.

In any case, back to my original thought -- in my view, attacks on Hillary have been, fairly or unfairly, counterproductive to Barack Obama's cause.

:hide:
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adoraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. national support means nothing at this point
I said that last week when Obama was up 5-10 points in the national polls as well.

there are only about 10 contests left, and they are so spread out.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. It does to the goal post movers
it's not about states it's about delegates, no wait, it's not about delegates it's about states, no wait it's not about states OR delegates it's about WHICH states you win, wait, and on and on it goes
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Justyce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. That's one reason I don't understand all the craziness on here --
Nearly everyone on here has already voted, and we just have to wait to see what the other few states do. We can't vote again. Changing people's minds don't matter if they've already voted. The next step for those of us who've voted is to see who officially wins the nomination and then start supporting that candidate.

I think I have Primary fatigue... :-(
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. I hear ya, Justyce!
:-(
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. You're not a very forward-thinking Obama supporter, are you?
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. No, more of the hateful posts are directed toward Obama and his supporters. nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. LOL
Seriously?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Where you been?
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Either you forgot the sarcasm smilie ...
or you need to find someone to read the threads from the front page to you.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. As I said, most of the negative posts are by Hillary supporters against Obama supporters. nt
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. You can't even quote YOURSELF accurately?
The selective choosing of part of a quote in an attempt to further a point seems to be endemic among ... umm ... let's just say some posters.

(And yeah, I waited until it was too late for you to go back and edit your original words.)
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. I disagree. Obama was the bombarded with the muslim garb and all types
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:05 AM by Kahuna
of attacks on his credibility. This has nothing to do with hillary. The fact that he's still ahead (albeit by 1%) is encouraging to me. He SURVIVED all the negative attacks.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. for you
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Gee, tanks!
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:29 AM by Kahuna
That's a good one. ;)
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Fellow Obama supporters? I thought you supported Hillary.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I was the proposer of the DU Obama Group; I'm a neutral poster of news articles.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:19 AM by DeepModem Mom
I want Obama to be the nominee and the next President (and voted for him in my primary, and am a maxed-out contributor to his campaign); I don't hate Hillary, and wish her and her supporters well.

On edit: To clarify -- I post articles favorable and unfavorable to both candidates (for info, not with an agenda) which is why you may have thought I supported Hillary. I know it's rare here to post without intending to score a point for one side or the other.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Oh, sure, I get the neutral article posting. I do that too although not as much
as I used to because of time constraints.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I actually had noticed that -- I knew you were a newsie, too! nt
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah, keep calling her a monster and say it's fair game...
...there is life outside of DU and people there don't like that sort of stuff.

Also, Hilary seems to be more focused when she's behind...witness New Hampshire.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. My point, that Hillary has as much support nationwide as Obama
Both campaigns are amazing movements.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. Once people know her false claims on her experience.......
and that she cannot use her husband's coattails.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:09 AM
Original message
for you
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
22. Ha! NO! YOU DIDINT!!!
:thumbsup:
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. That's HILARRious!
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. Their headline is kind of funny. The last MSNBC poll (early Feb) had the race exactly tied also.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. yeah, taklng the punches and rhetoric is working nationally.
The press wants a bloody fight but the delegate math doesn't work for Hillary. So the strategy is to bloody the front runner as much as possible and try to steal the election at the end instead of give up and pull ranks together. We'll see how it goes but I don't think in the end there will be a unified party. The general election will be left to the voters.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's not a product of Obama's "negative" campaigning...
1st, he hasn't done much other than say "show us your taxes" --- that's pretty minimal and fairly warranted in any race.

Secondly, Obama's drop is a result of the full scale attempt on both the part of the Clinton Campaign and certain elements of the media to harp on what are non-stories that cast doubt on Obama's credibility. It's orchestrated from the Clintons and the corporate structure.

It's up to Obama and his folks to figure out how to deal with it. So far, they haven't been as good at getting control of the news cycle as they used to be.

Obama is the victim of bias these past few weeks but he needs to buck up and Houdini his way out of it and put the MSM and Clinton back on their heels.

It better happen soon.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I agree. I'm not referencing attacks by Obama himself. He is really...
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:17 AM by DeepModem Mom
in a bind answering attacks himself because of his image as above that, which I wish he could maintain. Last night on TV they were suggesting that he had to find some surrogates who could effectively answer attacks for him.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I agree, He's got some of the wimpiest spokespeople out there.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Obama needs to do some OFFENSE and make other adjustments.
Sure, Hillary got some bounce and Obama has had a hell of a lot of unfair crappy corporate press of late. He needs to adjust by doing some tactical offense, getting more specific and more "gutsy" in his stump (people want to hear it from the gut), and he has got to re-adjust his strategy to again cut into her working class, female, and older folks bases.
There are MANY ways to do this. He was a community organizer who worked day in and out with working class folks in Chicago for years: i.e. displaced steel workers. TALK about that experience. Have some of those blue collar Chicago folks come out and advocate for him in ads and on the stump. Roll out Oprah again and other women surrogates and micro-target these constituencies and the issues important to them. Focus on the issues of Medicare and SS to attract more older folks. You have to talk DIRECTLY to these folks, and do it from the gut and the heart so that folks FEEL that they have a strong advocate. I will give Hillary this much: she went VERY negative and that was dirty pool, but she has re-adjusted after her losses and made up ground. Gotta give her team that. Obama must now re-adjust as well, and he has TONS of ways to do it.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I agree -- see post 16. nt
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
18. I have yet to see a similar post to this one from Hillary supporters.
Not once have I seen a call for civility from them toward Obama supporters.

You're right, but I just wanted to point that out.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
27. This is a discussion board. I am angry at her tactics. I discuss that.
In general I'm a nice guy and I try to be reasonable and civil, even in my criticisms of things and people.

And I don't hate Hillary. If she were not running for President and trying to take over the Democratic Party I'd like her -- or at least be ambivalent.

But the things the Clinton campaign is doing make me angry. And since this is a discussion board, I express that anger here.



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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. wrong. This is only a result of the MSM coverage of last Tuesday.
Let's see what it looks like after this Tuesday.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
30. It's just crazy, isn't it?
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:05 AM by stillcool47
All these attacks on Hillary!!

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail.
The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12...


Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.

Obama is a Christian.

The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.


Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.

Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/in...


January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-n... /
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign doesnt seem to have a conscience.



COMPTON, Calif. (AP) Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized
for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008...





Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs



Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance

By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/...


Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-t...
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)





http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-... /
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Read the lawsuit...http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080...


Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation...
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

An oldie but goody. I should have seen all this coming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg
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