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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:47 AM
Original message
"I take him at his word"
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:01 AM by madaboutharry
This statement by Hillary Clinton has angered me more than anything else over the past couple of weeks. There is no excuse for this statement. To me this comment on 60 minutes truly demonstrates her blind ambition.

on edit: I'll be clearer. She was casting some doubt as to whether he was a Christian or not and whether he was a Muslim. It was a bullshit answer.

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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. damn, i'd take it as a compliment if someone said that about me
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BklynChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. that was so intentional and disgusting.
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lewis_in_fw Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. ??????? *NT*
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hard to say which one angers the most, there has been such an onslaught.
Still, that one was particularly appalling. She had a chance to condemn such vicious lies outright, and she instead used qualifying language. That's who she is.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. What a horrible thing to say about somebody!
That you believe what they say! The audacity!
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's been reported that they have prayed TOGETHER in the past.
So it's slightly disingenuous.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. You know what the OP meant, why do you pretend you dont?
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:20 AM
Original message
because it is idiotic on the face of it
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
24. No it isn't, and I wasn't talking to you.
She had the chance to discredit the muslim reports as scurrilous, and did not. The OPs point was obvious and well said.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. No, you were talking to me.
My answer is because it is idiotic on the face of it.

She said at least 6 times that she didn't believe he was a Muslim.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. :)
we agree on something!

somebody check the temp in hades! :rofl:
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. then i repeat my response ;-)
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. Lovely. LOL
:applause:
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
44. I take you at your word that you believe it's a horrible...
thing to say. That's your position, as far as I know...
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irish.lambchop Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. "As far as I know" -
second qualifier she used when Steve Kroft asked again - just in case we missed it the first time.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. The Hillarrhoids don't get it...
It's just not something they have a problem with. Qualifying language is their stock in trade - as far as I know.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
7. I cant see what you're talking about
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:50 AM by moobu2
Sounds like Hillary respects Barack's honesty (which may show poor judgment on her part)

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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. No. What it's implying is that the ONLY thing any of us have to go on
when it comes to whether or not Obama is a Muslim is his "word" and "what he says."

And by saying "he's not, as far as I know" and "I take him at his word," the implication is: "Well, he could be or not be, but he SAYS he isn't, and he seems to be trustworthy enough, so I, being a trusting person, believe him."

Where she could have just said a flat-out "No!" Perhaps emphasized a teensy bit with the "There's no basis for that!"

Instead, she says "as far as I know," which implies that there may be some secret knowledge she's not privy to. And "I take him at his word," which implies there is absolutely no other evidence existent for her to go on. Such as, you know, say, his church's membership rolls.

She didn't have to go into deep details about any of this. In fact, the less detailed her denouncement of the rumor was, the stronger it would have been. She could have left it with "No, of course I don't believe he's a Muslim! There's no basis for that!" That could have been it. And that wouldn't have upset anyone.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. hairsplitting
Why can't you accept that the intent was to do exactly as you describe, that there was no devious intent in choice of words to accomplish it. The question was asked and answered; the interviewer asked again and again, and finally suckered her into using an additional expression. She should have said "asked and answered" and if she'd been on a witness stand her attorney would have jumped up and objected, because this is exactly how you try to get people to stumble when being interrogated.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. Well, how else can one determine
their inner, true religious beliefs? We have to go by what they say they are. Nobody can see into the heart of another.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. aaah.. another code-talker..
suuuuuure :eyes:

some of us "get it".. we've listened to enough republicans over the years to understand how it works.. ...not fooling US
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. read into it what you will
but the fact is that being precise in your language is a virtue.

I can not say that person X is not a wife-beater. I can say I know person X well and am very sure that is not the case, that I would be astonished to learn that is the case.

Being a Muslim is NOT a negative, despite all the hand-wringing spin about this particular phony issue. It would have been extremely poor form to have said anything even bordering on "I could never believe that of him" or whatever assurances you are looking for. And despite all confidence that everything he says on the subject is exactly as stated, neither HRC, nor you, nor I can state categorically that we know he has never been a Muslim. Was he one for five minutes when he was first born? What would constitute "being a Muslim" anyway? Is someone born a Muslim, or a Christian, or a Buddhist? Damned if I know; I'm an atheist. As far as I know, if someone thinks to themselves "I'm a satanist" for a minute, then they were once a satanist.
As far as I know, you were never a satanist.

"Qualifying language" is not necessarily a backhanded slap at someone. You just choose to make it so.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. My ass. You are reading what you want into it. Grow the fuck up. nt
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Your response is very crass .
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:25 AM by madaboutharry
You are the one that needs to grow up.
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lewis_in_fw Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Your mind has played tricks on you because of your blind hatred for Hillary, Stop Overanalyzing *NT
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. I think you are overanalyzing me.
n/t
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lewis_in_fw Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. "I take him at his word." What is so wrong with that? The inflections in her voice? *NT*
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm also irked by the way she finished that portion of the interview.
After taking him at his word and making it clear that there was nothing to that rumor as far as she knows, which to any reasonable person means that there actually could be something to that rumor, she just hasn't heard it yet, she has to nerve to say this:

"Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors, that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time," Clinton said.

She had an opportunity to unequivocally put the rumor to rest, but chose not to, and than has the gall to feign sympathy for him.

Slick, Hilly.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. heaven forbid she takes his word again
amazing.
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. There have been rumors about Hillary's sexuality. If Obama had
answered the question, "Well, I think we must take her at her word that she's not a lesbian" would the Hillary camp be upset?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. yes. How would we know, except for her word? Is there some other test?
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. I think I should add that
it is sad that there is such prejudice against Muslims in this country. The real sinister implication here is that her comment bolstered the right wing smear that Obama is an extremist plant.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. bingo
see my post upthread.

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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
22. yawwwn... old news... next...
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
23. Not again!
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
25. I think her point was that she can't read someone's mind...
...to find out his religious beliefs.

She was also echoing Obama saying in a debate, "I take Senator Clinton at her word that she knew nothing about the (turban) photo."
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. Hillary has no way of knowing Barack is not a secret Muslim? WTF? nt
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Ideally, she would have answered the question differently.
A short answer of "He's a Christian" would have been good.

My point is that by giving a long answer instead of a short answer, she wound up phrasing it to show the limits of her own knowledge.

If she were asked if John McCain is a Christian, and she decided to give a long answer, she might have said something similar to what she said about Obama.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. she didn't 'decide' to give a long answer
the SOB asked it repeatedly - it's called 'badgering the witness' in court. It's how interrogaters get someone to trip up. She should have said "asked and answered" after the first time, but then everyone would call her arrogant.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
26. Joe McCarthy would be proud of her racist smear campaign.
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lewis_in_fw Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Zonkers is Zonkers for St. Obama! *NT*
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. St. O?? Oh please. I'm sure he's got plenty of baggage.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. Yeah, because it's so much better NOT to take someone at their word.
:eyes:

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jlpohio69 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
30. Sorry, but "taking a man at his word" has ALWAYS been the highest form of respect for someone....
you people that think Hillary was slamming him by "taking him at his word" are really grasping for anything to trash her now.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
33. It pissed me off too, but you're wasting your breath
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:34 AM by SoCalDem
That's the problem with "code-speak".. It "sounds" innocuous...deliberately...

just like the Jesse jackson thing

and many others from the HRC campaign..

They were "schooled" on these tactics, and of course when they are thrown back at them, they get all innocent and pretend to not know why anyone was offended... "Why would anyone be offended to be called a Muslim??..so they get a double-dip.. they can then pretend that the person complaining, thinks that being a muslim is a "bad" thing..

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones did this, but she;s not as "good at it", as some..she grinned all the way through her prepared off-the-cuff comments..she knew it was all a scam, but she did it anyway.. (She must have a juice job waiting for her if the Goodie train goes all the way to the station)
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. SHE DIDN'T BRING IT UP
the interviewer did - over and over -

give it a rest

there's plenty to criticize her for. I had her #7 on my list when there were 8 candidates. But this incessant hairsplitting and parsing of nuance on both sides is absurd.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. I love how people's "last straw" can be something she DID NOT SAY
Video exists

transcripts exist

There is little reason to get lathered up over her saying "I take him at his word" on 60 Minutes BECAUSE SHE NEVER SAID IT
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