To HRC's supporters: do the right thing and start slowly winding it down. Victory depends on you.

[Ken Burch]

Your candidate can't get nominated now without a fight that would leave unhealable wounds. She couldn't get elected after such a fight. Working for her now, in that knowledge, is like being a Humphrey delegate in Chicago. You're better people than that, HRC supporters.

HRC would have to get 62% of the remaining delegates to win. It'll be an even higher percentage after she loses Mississippi and Wyoming. It's just too high of a hill to climb without climbing over the dreams and hopes of good people.

Why would you want her to win the nomination in a poisonous way that would guarantee her defeat?

That's not a threat. Most of us non-Clinton types will work for her. But causing ugly feelings while winning a nomination can make that victory impossible to build on. That, again, is the lesson of Humphrey in '68.

Why diminish HRC in this way?

Why not let her, if she must stay in, at least focus only on attacking McCain for the rest of the way and otherwise work on building unity and good feelings? Why not just let her play out the string and focus on getting her people to Denver for a magnanimous last hurrah?

She'd be an ok president, but there's no way she's so massively superior that she(or her supporters)could be justified in using scorched-earth Mike Ditka-style tactics to win. Nobody's THAT special, folks.

She needs to be a stateswoman and start pulling back. Her reputation and our chances for victory are at stake. You, her supporters, if you care about our chances for winning, need to do the same.

She knows she can't win in 2012 if she's responsible for us losing this year. And she knows that if she continues, she WILL be solely responsible for our defeat in the fall. You, her supporters know it too. You also know nothing her candidacy is about can be worth giving yourselves that kind of responsibility.

It's time to begin the healing and put party and country first.

You can't get her nominated in a positive way now, you can't get her nominated in a way that would help her get elected in the fall.

You all need to accept reality and help us win. Please.

(I'd be saying the same thing to Obama if he was this far behind at this stage, btw.)

[cali]

1. oh c'mon. You know it's not gonna happen. Hill supporters

don't give a shit how she wins. They applaud everything she does, no matter how unsupportable. And Hillary will not give up. She'd rather burn the dem party to the ground than do that. Face it, we're probably going to lose in November, in part because of Hill's me or no one tactics. I'm resigning myself to President McCain. Thanks, hilly.

[jgraz]

2. Yep, but we're the cult

:eyes:

[MH1]

31. Not all Hill supporters support her blindly no matter what she does -

haven't there have been quite a few defections since she endorsed McCain?

To which thoughtful souls I say, :yourock:

[blm]

44. That's what I noticed, too. McCain the last 4 years has forfeited any high ground with Dems

who were once willing to overlook his party ties for the sake of unifying this country. Now, he has transformed himself into a RW asskisser of the first order and deserves NO QUARTER.

[Harry Monroe]

46. Your line "They appllaud everything she does no matter how unsupportable" says it all

No difference between those who are still supporting Hillary and those still supporting Bush. They are blinded by reality.

[Ken Burch]

3. This isn't meant to be an attack thread.

I'm sincerely trying to appeal to the Clinton campaign to do the decent thing. At the end of the day, we need their supporters to unite with Obama's if we are to win, and we need a unity based on reconciliation.

I am among those who've said harsh things in GD-P in recent days. This is meant to be not-harsh.

[Jamastiene]

15. So, you WERE harsh before you WERE NOT harsh.

Flip flopping on harshness does NOTHING for party unity. Pick one and stick to it.

[LulaMay]

16. It's meant to be a manipulation thread! Your posts show you are not sincere, & you have no right

to say that we should step aside or that we are not oppressed or that we don't need this nomination, or any of the other BS statements you've made.

Now you think you'll try to be suave and charming (which you are not) and manipulate women with guilt trips to be 'nice', and say 'please', since your hardball efforts were a melt down before.

You treat women with so much obvious condescension it's truly revolting.

Repugnant.

[NDambi]

29. You have deep rooted whoa is me "women" issues.. Wtf happened to you?

Heavens

[Ken Burch]

57. Saying HRC should step aside is not the same thing as saying women should step aside.

Feminism is a strong movement. I support it. And its success hardly depends on the fortunes of one candidate.

[LulaMay]

19. But thank you so much for not making it an 'attack thread' like day before! Thanks for nothing.

[Ken Burch]

61. The other thread wasn't an attack thread. It was a thread written in fear and anguish

about what an Obama defeat would mean to African Americans. If you honestly think they'll forgive the party if Obama's shoved aside, you're an incredible optimist.

And I wrote nothing out of hostility to you, Lula.

Or to women.

[rodeodance]

22. your silly attempt at reverse psy 101 sucks

[Ken Burch]

58. If I were doing reverse psychology, I'd be daring HRC to stay in.

Obama's done nothing to deserve your hatred.

[LostinVA]

41. Yes, it is -- and it's also very patronizing

[Diane R]

4. This 'non-Clinton types' is NOT going to work for her. If she's the nominee, she's on her own.

I agree; Hillary supporters need to start getting on the unity bandwagon. Continuing the Clinton campaign is just giving McCain the Presidency. A vote for Hillary is a vote for McCain, which is a vote for George Bush. Continuing humoring Hillary in her determination to be Queen of the world will lead to a third (forth?) Bush term.

[LostinVA]

43. I can't believe anyone on a liberal board would have written this

Ducking scary.

[Hepburn]

49. I cannot believe anyone on a Progressive Board would...

...support for the office of POTUS a former Goldwater Girl who was head of the College Republicans and who was on the board of Walmart.

Leopards IMO do NOT change their spots.

[Ken Burch]

59. Can you believe it could be legitimate for HRC to win by winning ugly?

Why are you so invested in her, anyway?

Both candidates are equally gay-friendly.

[Mags]

56. Well, do you think most of the Hillary supporters will fall

right in line with Obama? Well I don't know any within my surroundings that will. They will not vote. You people are so full of yourselves. I am not humoring Hillary in the least. I think she is by far the best candidate.

[Up2Late]

5. Believe me, in 3 months, after Obama's campaign has had a total melt-down...

...you'll be glad she stayed in the race. It's already started to happen, you just don't see it yet.

(Btw, we do)

[cali]

7. That remains to be seen

and I'll never be glad for her. I'll vote for her if she's the nominee, but I consider her a liar and without any moral fiber whatsoever. Her "accomplishments" are vastly overstated. She married Bill Clinton and there is no doubt that she wouldn't be where she is, if not for that.

[susankh4]

11. Indeed they will....

Now we "Hillbots" (50% of the party) can sit back and watch.

And wait.

Pass the salt....

:popcorn:

[Ken Burch]

68. Why are you so unquestioningly loyal to the less popular AND less progressive candidate?

She isn't loyal to you. That family never is loyal to its supporters.

[donheld]

6. This is proof possitive the Hillary campaign can no longer afford

Kool-aid. :D

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cass]

52. Where do you get off accusing Clinton supporters of actively attempting

to destroy the Democratic party?? Just who the hell do you think you are trashing democrats who don't support your candidate? You think dems supporting Clinton are followers of Limbaugh? God, you Obama supporters are a bunch of fucking nuts. And you people wonder why the cult label has been applied to you.

[LulaMay]

9. Why do you think any woman would listen to you, follow your orders? You wouldn't know what's 'right

if it bit you.

[Ken Burch]

26. A HRC presidency will not be the end of sexism, LulaMay,.

n/t.

[NDambi]

30. Amen....

[susankh4]

10. No can do

I won't sell my soul for the Dem party. Not when it is in such disarray.

[LulaMay]

12. Once again, you are unbearably condescending to women. You try to manipulate women, embarrassing

[Harry Monroe]

48. How the HELL is the original poster "condescending" to women!!!???

Unless I've read the post wrong, it is completely "gender neutral" where her women supporters are concerned. I'm sure there are plenty of men who still support her as well. He was speaking to her supporters of all genders and race. You saying he is "condescending" to women is ridiculous!!!!! The only way you could possibly justify your statement was if all men in America abandoned her and she only had women left as her supporters. I wouldn't give a rat's ass what gender and/or race Hillary was, she's got to go!!! She just happens to be a woman. That does not give her a pass whatsoever in the negative and destructive "scorched earth" campaign she is waging.

[Yael]

50. Its all they have left

:shrug:

[Harry Monroe]

54. Quite agree...

...and if the shoe were on the other foot, would the poster be condescending to African-Americans?? Utterly ridiculous argument. BTW, I am a white, middle age Democratic male from Mississippi voting for Obama Tuesday and damned proud to do so!!!

[salbi]

67. I'm a woman, a wife, a mother, a grandmother and an Obama Supporter

[LulaMay]

13. Heads up gals: Ken here said that we don't 'need' this election because we're not oppressed like

black men are.

He is one of the worst misogynists on this board.

[LulaMay]

18. 2nd Heads up gals: He seems to enjoy women reacting to him, & if you swear, it will get back to DU!

[Ken Burch]

36. I don't enjoy the reactions you had, but I had nothing to do with your posts getting deleted.,

I wouldn't do that to you, LulaMay.

[Ken Burch]

25. This particular thread wasn't even about women, Lula.

And I never said women faced no problems with discrimination.

[Jamastiene]

14. Your candidate has caused the unhealable wounds

with your/his divisiveness and empty rhetoric. You need not blame the current rift in our party on Hillary supporters. Hillary has been around a lot longer than your n00b guy and you n00b supporters.

This ain't over. We have every right to fight for what we believe in too. If you don't like that, there are plenty of countries that don't allow the political process to play out like it was intended to play out. So, get used to it. We are here and we aren't going anywhere. You don't own the Democratic Party and you don't own us. Your attitude stinks, btw. Talk about Rovian tactics.

[Ken Burch]

64. Why would you want to win if you could only win by winning ugly?

HRC can't win by positive, progressive means now. She no longer offers anyone anything to look forward to. You can't run ugly and then do good after you've won.

[eShirl]

17. I doubt you'll get through to anyone that's still with her at this point

but I do appreciate the effort

[cboy4]

20. Why do you hate Democracy Ken Burch?

Certainly that silly question isn't any more outlandish than your suggestion that we call the election in favor of your candidate before all of the votes are counted.

[Ken Burch]

65. I don't hate democracy. It's just that I don't want our party doomed to defeat

HRC can't get nominated in a positive way that brings us together. And she can't be progressive in office if she wins ugly.

Why the hell do you trust her, anyway? She was part of the "don't ask, don't tell" administration. Nobody in that crowd can be gay-friendly.

[rodeodance]

21. Your first mistake was not to recognize her as a capable, intelligent

woman on her merits. Instead you all tried to demonize her and her
family from the very beginning. Now you have a pithy attempt
at pop psychology. Buck up—you have long road ahead!

[pajjr]

23. no

This is idiotic

[Perry Logan]

24. After weeks of smears, the Obamites suddenly realize they need to suck up to the Hillary people.

[Ken Burch]

27. It's only been Republicans that smeared your candidate, not us.

n/t.

[cboy4]

32. LOL. You should win a DUZY for that piece of comedy.

:rofl:

[Up2Late]

55. I'll second that and raise you!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[DemVet]

28. A Fight at the Convention? For the Nom? Let's get it on!!!!!

Yeah baby...tell Barack to break out his boxing gloves.

[Ken Burch]

34. Even though HRC wiould have to lose in the fall if she won the nom that way>

What did Obama and the rest of us ever do to you?

[DemVet]

51. Nothing at all...

...I'm just stating a fact on a possible scenario of how it's likely to play out. That's what our beloved party gets with the super-delegate system. I think the super-delegate system needs to be s**tcanned after this years Nominee is decided.

[Ken Burch]

66. Why do you want something that has to doom us to defeat?

Your candidate isn't THAT freaking superior.

[maddiejoan]

33. No.

I support Hillary and her aggressive campaign for the Presidency, because I think Obama would lose the GE.

Even if he won --I don't believe he is strong enough to withstand 4 years of GOP assault during what will be a very difficult Presidency.

[bigtree]

35. why are you afraid of the voters in the upcoming states?

[usrbs]

37. I THINK SHE'LL BE THE BETTER PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!

So I'm supporting her. Now leave me alone, and don't think we don't remember your classless venom.

[Phillycat]

39. I agree with every word of this post.

Gettin' a little scared of us PA voters, eh, Ken Burch?

[GarbagemanLB]

40. Yeah, all that 'experience' of hers that lead to voting for the IWR, her hawkish foreign policy, her

secretive tactics (where's the tax returns, Hillary?), her disgusting smears involving using fear to gain votes, her HANDING the GOP an attack ad with the whole 3am issue and saying only she and McCain have experience....yeah, she will surely be the better president. :sarcasm:

[End Of The Road]

38. Hillary or Obama support on DU has nothing to do

with the ultimate selection of the nominee. Get real.

[alarimer]

42. Go to hell

Ridiculous.

[HughMoran]

62. Most of his posts are inflammatory bullshit

I just hide them.

[Ken Burch]

69. You call it inflammatory when people contradict the idea of loyalty to a sure loser.

The truth is, insisting on forcing HRC's nomination has to be as divisive and futile this year as insisting on forcing Humphrey's nomination through in '68 was.

She isn't any better as a candidate or a person than Obama is. She's not worth taking the party down in flames.

Do you guys actually WANT to defeat McCain?

[rodeodance]

45. More Lectures--same ol, same ol--this time with a bit of pitthy psy tossed in.

[sueragingroz]

47. No.

[okasha]

53. Cry me a river

of crocodile tears :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

60. ROFL, Clinton supporters are not like Obama ones

They have real brains, judgement and experienced.

We don't behave like lemmings. Sorry, you guy is going to have to win this one on his own, with our opposition.

And we are tame compared to the GOP when they get hold of him.

[BlueStater]

63. Support Mr. "Hope"! It's inevitable!

Fuck that. I didn't like it when Hillary supporters were telling everyone she was inevitable and I sure as hell don't like it now that the shoe is on the other foot.