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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:34 AM
Original message
Obama Advisers Gone Wild!
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 01:35 AM by BenDavid
What all of you obama folks are missing in all this wild talk from his advisors is obama is as HRC says, telling folks one thing in private and saying something different in public, and telling lie after lie about his Iraq policy.

Example Iraq: Samantha Power says Obama is bluffing on withdrawing forces from Iraq.Power's comments about Iraq came in an interview with the BBC. She said Obama's position is that withdrawing all U.S. troops within 16 months is a "best-case scenario" that he will revisit if he becomes president.

"He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he's crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. senator," she said. "He will rely upon a plan an operational plan that he pulls together in consultation with people who are on the ground to whom he doesn't have daily access now, as a result of not being the president."

Obama has actually shortened his original 16-month commitment to say he will end the war in 2009. Obama advisers say President George W. Bush's plan to draw troops down to 15 brigades this year means Obama could complete the removal in a year.

In Mississippi, Clinton questioned the Iraq comments based on Obama's public statements.

"He has attacked me continuously for having no hard exit date, and now we learn he doesn't have one, in fact he doesn't have a plan at all," Clinton told reporters while campaigning in Mississippi. Her campaign sent out a fundraising appeal based on the Power's resignation.



Susan Rice says he's not ready for that 3 am phone call.Austan Goolsbee says he's bluffing on NAFTA.And now this. He's bluffing on telecom immunity.The funny thing is that these advisers are all right. Obama's in lala land making promises he can't possibly keep and his advisers are just stating the obvious. Their guy has no experience (not an automatic disqualification for office), he isn't going to pull troops out of Iraq (because that would be crazy), he isn't going to withdraw from NAFTA (also crazy), and he isn't going to let telecom companies go bankrupt because they did their patriotic duty.


Shalom
Ben David
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary has the nastiest advisors....ruthless and cold-blooded.
She has turned this into something dirty and ugly. I can not stand her anymore.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. This is what has been going on here
Instead of debating the points brought by the OP - and he did not say that Obama'a advisers are "ruthless.." rather, he gave specific examples.

But instead of debating the facts you resort to name calling and a childish expression of "can't stand her." Leaders are here to lead, to make hard decisions, not to win Miss Congeniality contest.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. The primary process has been quite revealing hasn't it? /nt
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Could you be more off point? eom
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. Hillary got Samantha fired today.
Then she said what Penn said was ok. I watched that video and got sick.

Of course it is relevant. Powers was mentioned. Penn and Wolfson do far worse every day.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. David Axelrod fired Samantha.
One thing he absolutely will not tolerate is a staffer taking a campaign off message. He runs a really, really tight ship. The campaign has made few mistakes until recently. I guarantee you David went crazy over her mistake.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Then he was wrong.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Obama has been on the defensive today - not what any campaign wants.
She had to go.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:32 PM
Original message
Most see it as letting Hillary implode while being fairly gracious.
She may end up winning, but it will be from fear, not enthusiasm
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Dupe self delete
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 12:32 PM by madfloridian
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Did not address the op - but I'm sure you feel better.
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. Not only you hon, but most of the world. Senator Clinton is a train wreck. ..
Have to tell you that our Globe and Mail had an article saying if Senator Obama is President, relations between Canada and the US will improve.
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. Not only that, all the Liberal voices are going against her and I do trust..
Rachel Maddow, KO, etc. They are the political pundits and they know how negative she is going. Gosh, she just want to get back in the white house!
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. How's that hole in your soul?
McCain will destroy Hill on experience, same with Obama, so this type of argument is stupid. Both Obama and Hillary will have to find something else to run on against McCain and frankly I don't see Hillary running on anything but experience.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. It seems Obama can't run on ending the war.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Your magic 8-ball may need a re-alignment. n/t
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Please stop flaunting your Jewishness. You don't reflect that well on the rest of us.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. You read the Alter piece on this? If you have not it is a must... let me see if I can find it
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. The same Alter that recently got laughed out of a forum on media bias?
He said there wasn't any? He was laughed at and booed.

Jonathan Alter? The guy who said in response to a question from KO about Hillary's loan to herself and the suggestion that it was sooooo unusual - "You would have to go back to the Nixon administration when Richard's brother got a loan". That lying bastard and his lying sidekick KO?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. You might want to read the article, as he points out something
that a few American Jews would love to keep secret.

There is far more discussion about how to solve the problems in ISRAEL than there are in the US... and they'd love to keep it this way. Criticize Israel you are an anti-Semite, and jews tied to the Likud in the US... and Neo Cons, don't represent me.

That is too complex of a thought for some folks...

By the way, I expect this post to be deleted as well, not because it breaks any rules... but you'll see
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
55. wow.....
thank you for having the courage to make this statement.

It is an important one.

:hi:

peace~
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oy vey
free clue, BOTH of them are posturing when it comes to the Iraq policy

Meet the new boss

And don't expect much to change when it comes to foreign policy. The Empire would never allow it
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. I am Obama 'folk' .... I am Hillary 'folk' ....
You are not the solution: You are the problem ....
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. What a hollow post.
Why don't you get an idea and not just name call.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Here is a clue
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 01:50 AM by Trajan
Saying you are a 'problem' is not calling you a name ... It identifies a specific quality about an object; It doesnt 'name' an object ....
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. another hollow post
So far you're 2 for 2. Do you have any ideas on politics, or do you just play semantics games?
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. I have an idea ....
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 01:55 AM by Trajan
Inclusiveness and unity ....

Something you perhaps dont understand .....
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. 3 strikes and you're out.
Thanks for playing.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Really ? ....
Dont I get four ?

Cmon .... dont stop now ......

Inclusiveness and unity are not sexy, I know ... but in the end; they will be all that matters: threads like this are the problem NOT the solution ...

Is that clear enough for you ? .. or is it just more 'hollow' ?
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. I see that your posts have some edits now
Looks like I responded to a subject line of ... before you had the change. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

If unity and inclusiveness are what you're after then I don't think that drawing partisan lines with "
You are not the solution: You are the problem ...." is the way to do it. Traditionally themes of togetherness are extended with an olive branch, not with insults.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Excuse me ...
But I edited an accidental '.' .... There were no insults in any form or fashion ...

You said I was 'name calling' .... I said this thread was not a solution, but the problem ....

You wrongly accused me of 'name calling', when it was clear I did no such thing ...

These are the facts ....
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. Your OP said that people, not just the thread are the problem
If the idea of name calling offends you, then I apologize. Sure, you didn't call anyone a name, but you certainly did throw some blame around. That's what I latched on to. I don't think that by telling people they are the problem is a great way to come to a solution.

Let me wrap this up by saying that I think our disagreement is coming down to accidental misposts and responding too quickly to those posts. I agree that party cohesion is important and the divide is exacerbated when people try to lump all Obama supporters together, or all Clinton supporters together. When I got your post with "..." and that's it I figured that you were just jerking me around. I admitted in my previous posts that we probably crossed in the night, so to speak.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. Without access to military intelligence, how can they
cast any plan in concrete.

What she said is just plain common sense.

Suppose that sticking to the plan instead of extending it say for 2-3 months, a whole bunch of people would get killed, what do you think any sane person would do.

Your post is just nonsense.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Why didnt Barack just say that instead of lying
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 01:45 AM by moobu2
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Did he say any timetable is fixed?
What he did say is that he would be shooting for this target BUT he would bring the troops out responsibly and safely. That is not lying.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Advisors came up with the plan he has
it's a best case scenario for March 2008. In 9 months things might change. I criticized George Bush for sticking to a failing strategy. I can't ask Obama to do the same.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Can Obama be trusted given his repeated lies?
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Can Hillary be trusted given her experience at lying?
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. There goes your three thread spent on Obama hating. All this Obama hatred on the Sabbath
Jeez.

See ya tomorrow night for Round two
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great post.
:thumbsup:
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Yea great skull-duggery post!
:kick:
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. I hope the does revisit his Iraq exit strategy
Based on what the facts are right now, we could be out in 16 months. All of this might change in 9 months. I find it spectacular that George Bush was ripped on this board for NOT changing strategy when details change. And now that Obama says that he'll revisit the details and base his plan accordingly he's getting ripped for the opposite. You might not be a hypocrite, but you apparently agree with George Bush.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Barack was saying one thing in public and
thanks to the candid comments from his adviser, we now know he didnt mean any of it.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Here is the final word from Power, and most important
"What you can take seriously is that he will try to get U.S. troops out as quickly and as responsibly as possible. And that is the best case estimate of what it would take."

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Still-ill Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. hillary is
tearing the democratic party apart with her dumb accusations, I'm sure he isn' lying about his strategy to pull out of Iraq or nafta. But Im sure when he is president he will have more information at his disposal. It would be very dumb not to alter his plans in Iraq or nafta if its best for the country based on the new information he recieves. Let's be real here people.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. hey Ben, how is your bi-polar candidate doing? Still portraying herself and mccain
as more qualified to be president, while saying Obama is only a speech

You always say you admire Bill Clinton, well listen to this, Obama has more experience then Bill Clinton had when HE ran for president

and another thing Ben, would you rather have a person with more experience or better judgement?

Hmmmmm, visions of the IWR, and the Kyle/Lieberman ammendment, or voting for the use of Cluster bombs in civilian areas doesn't sound like good judgement to me




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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. Please take that bullshit Shalom
and shove it where it belongs. You completely mischaracterize... everything. It's disgusting. Here's an example of the bullshit in your duplicitous OP: Rice did NOT say that Obama wasn't ready for the "3 am phone call". She said no one who hasn't been president can lay claim to being ready for it, but that Obama has demonstrated the good judgment needed and hilly and JMac have not. And what Power said is just basic sense. We don't know what Iraq will look like 10 months from now, and Obama is not a didact.

Liars and twisters of the truth are deserving of nothing but scorn, dear.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
28. To put it more succinctly - Its the Hypocrisy Stupid!
Obama is a big fat hypocrite but his followers won't notice.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. The Chicago Charlatan is no more trustworthy than his Syrian friend Antoin Rezko...
those two are cut from the same criminal cloth.

:kick: and rec
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. old news, come again! This rezko shit is old news
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
39. Barack has for a long time there was no hardand fast time line and said he'd leave residule troops..
... Remember the controversy when they all said they coldn't leave till 2013. HRC is distoring reality agains.
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
40. Show the link? Put up or shut up! This is pretty tiring. He gonna be President n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
44. He's "bluffing on telecom immunity"? Bullshit. He bothered to vote against it, unlike HRC.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:20 AM by impeachdubya
And you honestly think any of it has jack-diddly shit to do with "telecom companies" going "bankrupt because they did their patriotic duty." Are you SERIOUS? REALLY?

The telecom companies don't give a shit about the lawsuits. The ONLY people who seem to be worried are the folks in the Administration (and their enablers) who really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really DON'T want to have to answer any pesky questions like:

Who, precisely, were you spying on, that you couldn't be bothered to get a rubber-stamp FISA warrant that can be issued 72 hours retroactively AFTER the fact?

(Not to mention this old, crowd-pleasing favorite: "Why, if the sweeping spy powers were needed in the wake of 9/11, was the program instituted in February of 2001?")

Let's leave aside Hillary and Obama for a minute.. do you HONESTLY BELIEVE that allowing this Administration- ANY administration- to spy on whoever they want, whenever they want, under any circumstances they want, with--

ZERO OVERSIGHT WHATSOEVER

--constitutes the telecom companies doing their "patriotic duty"?

For real?

What if it turns out Karl Rove was monitoring John Kerry's phones and email in the run up to the 2004 election? Would it still be the "patriotic duty" of the telecom companies to comply with Bush's every weasely request?

Remember, even John Ashcroft had problems with this program.. so Gonzo was brought in, and he didn't have any problems with it. You trust THAT guy to have total unfettered access sans warrants or oversight to tap any phone or electronic communcation he would want?

That's not patriotism, Ben. There is nothing "patriotic" about selling civil liberties, the rule of law, and the United States Constitution down the river. That is the antithesis of patriotism.

And the ONLY way any of us are going to get any answers regarding what WAS done under these "programs" is if civil cases can be brought against the telecoms- and THEY are not the ones particularly concerned (much less in danger of being made "bankrupt") about these lawsuits.

I suggest you do a little more research into the subject.
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Stop trying to give them some intelligence. Senator Obama will be ...
the next President of the US and he sure do not need to be the VP to Senator Clinton. She just has to win at all cost! Frig her, she not gonna be in the picture. Hillary Clinto, in the history books, who the hell is she?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. BenDavid is grasping at straws, that is what losers do. Hey BenDavid, ...
Senator Obama is gonna be the next President of the US. Read it and weep! Your 'girl' is toast!
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