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Should Senator Barack "HUSSEIN" Obama defend himself, or

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:03 AM
Original message
Should Senator Barack "HUSSEIN" Obama defend himself, or
let the vitriol roll off his shoulders? How to draw that line between smart politics and "icky"? He's being attacked and is taking the high road. Is he wrong?
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Someone at my Drinking Liberally group said the other day
that racism against Arabs is the last truly acceptable form of racism in this country, and that's the REAL race card that's being played here. :(
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Your problem is you were drinking liberally! I kid!
Racism against black men hasn't gone away; Arabs, get in line!

The possibilities of an AA as prez continues to astound, amaze, and delight me.

And nice to see you!
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Arguing about politics is ALWAYS better when there's beer involved!
I sort of understand what he was getting at.

If there was a mainstream Hollywood movie where the villain was a total African-American ghetto THUG, there would be widespread political outrage. If the villain is a crazy Arab, there isn't that same "Wow, this is really RACIST!" reaction. :shrug:
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. He is not wrong. It makes me nervous...
that taking the high road is a path fraught with danger, but I, for one, trust his judgment. I'd hate, really hate, to be a Hillary Clinton supporter who finds that she wins the presidency - and loses the country because of her narcissistic needs.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Taking the high road might be fraught with danger, but that's why he's
so electable. Who has done that lately?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
35. He cannot be like her, if he is to have any integrity......


....there are a few flaws in Clinton's trial-by-smear method. The first is that her attacks on Obama are not a fair proxy for what he'd endure in the general election, because attacks are harder to refute when they come from within one's own party.
Indeed, Clinton is saying almost exactly the same things about Obama that McCain is: He's inexperienced, lacking in substance, unequipped to handle foreign policy. As The Washington Monthly's Christina Larson has pointed out, in recent weeks the nightly newscasts have consisted of Clinton attacking Obama, McCain attacking Obama, and then Obama trying to defend himself and still get out his own message. If Obama's the nominee, he won't have a high-profile Democrat validating McCain's message every day.

Second, Obama can't "test" Clinton the way she can test him. While she likes to claim that she beat the Republican attack machine, it's more accurate to say that she survived with heavy damage. Clinton is a wildly polarizing figure, with disapproval ratings at or near 50 percent. But, because she earned the intense loyalty of core Democratic partisans, Obama has to tread gingerly around her vulnerabilities. There is a big bundle of ethical issues from the 1990s that Obama has not raised because he can't associate himself with what partisan Democrats (but not Republicans or swing voters) regard as a pure GOP witch hunt.


What's more, Clinton has benefited from a favorable gender dynamic that won't exist in the fall. (In the Democratic primary, female voters have outnumbered males by nearly three to two.)

Clinton's claim to being a tough, tested potential commander-in-chief has gone almost unchallenged. Obama could reply that being First Lady doesn't qualify you to serve as commander-in-chief, but he won't quite say that, because feminists are an important chunk of the Democratic electorate. John McCain wouldn't be so reluctant.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=ba30ff16-a5af...

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. He's been trying. Pretty weak, so far.
It didn't seem to work in the last contests.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. YOU want me to respond to you, so I won't.
Hi, bigtree, and may the best person win. I hope if it's Obama, you aren't too disappointed.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. you really don't get it. I ALWAYS support our party. Supporting the nominee is just routine for me.
. . . defending them as well. I think you know that Hillary Clinton isn't my first choice in this election.

You want to post without dissenting opinions? Maybe you could post to your own PM.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yes, but you've posted stuff
from Roseanne to support Hillary? That puzzled me.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. who said it was 'support'? Get real. You had your chance to criticize it
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:14 AM by bigtree
. . . and I did very little to defend her MAIN point about the VP slot. I'm still not sure she wasn't putting us on. You know, I can still post here without having some Machiavellian motive.

I just thought it was interesting and I have enough guts to post it here and take the bullshit attacks which inevitably come. You took a bullshit take on the post from Barr, accusing her of some sexist slur, and I defended my post against that. That take is a reflection on your own tortured bias, not on my judgment or motive in posting the piece supporting Hillary Clinton from a very well-known comedienne. I NEVER would have forwarded an article which I thought was some slur. I think you know that.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. You protest too much, my friend! I wasn't even in that
thread. Why the anger?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
47. Defensive much? Ouch. I hit a sore spot?
And 'my own tortured bias'? :rofl: Whatever, bigtree.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. He could blow this out of the water
He should say something like "If people think that just by throwing my middle name around will turn people against me, then they underestimate the intelligence of the American people. They are far to intelligent to fall for such obvious race baiting."
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. I don't even think his middle name is such an issue anymore. It's
now a tired 'whatever'. That's good imo.
'
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. That would be a good response too
"Haven't we talked about my middle name enough? Hussein Hussein Hussein. How is that, Wolf, have we talked about it enough now? Let's get to work on something that matters."

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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. same here. nt
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. "Halfrican." ... "Magic Negro" ...
The troglodytes have gone so low, no matter what Obama does, he will be on the high road.


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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. acutally I think Halfrican is pretty funny. He is half African.
I don't think that Bennifer, or Brangelina are used to denigrate Ben Affleck or Jennifer Lopez.

Magic Negro, on the other hand, totally offends me.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. So do these guys:

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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. You're not going to get me with that
I've never bought the "RW uses this word so it's instantly tainted" thing. Some words actually are offensive because they have no other associated meaning. The N word comes to mind. Halfrican however doesn't actually mean shit except for someone who is half-African. I can't be held responsible just because some idiot used it too.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. LOL! You're right.
But it's "idiots," and they're a bunch of racists. (I'm not saying you are, at all.)

"halfrican" is the most racist new word I have ever heard.

It is racist to it's core, to it's root meaning, and alludes to numerous subtle historical meanings.

I think it is one of the worst things I have heard said about a person, regarding their race, since I was a child.



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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. What are some of the historical meanings?
I'm looking for information here. If people really get offended by this then obviously I won't use it. I just like word play. I'm a big fan of puns.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Can we discuss this another time?
I was just off to bed. :boring: I like the word play aspect of it too, but not the part about being half white and half black... you can start with the "3/5 Compromise."

:hi:
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. as a person who is half Chinese and half caucasian
I really don't have a problem with this. I love my mixed heritage. The best of both worlds. Obama's is particularly awesome. Kenyan father, Kansas mother. Raised in Hawai'i by grandparents. Schooled in Indonesia. I love multi-culturalism.

I look forward to your response some other time.

Thanks.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Me too.
I have every 'race' in me. :D

buenas noches :boring:
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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. Jesus HUSSEIN Christ, this again?!?!
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 01:19 AM by Melinda
:P
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. He needs some surrogettes not connected to his campaign to respond for him
I would start with Ms. Powers and add several others.

You know, similar to the way Alan Dershowitz and others were unallied defenders of Bill during the impeachment hearings.

Let them handle the direct attacks on the Clintons (both of them) so Obama himself can claim they dont speak for him.

Leave his job to be directly responding to the many inaccurate statements the Clintons say about him or his policies, but leave the dirty work to outsiders.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Ms. Power resigned. Now she should be a spokesperson?
Actually, she could be now!
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. Been readin' the Luntz playbook.
Take the high road cuz the most effective negative campaign according to Luntz is to complain about your opponent's negative campaign. It's less blatantly obvious your trying to manipulate people.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yes and No. Like anything else in life, it's a two edge sword. If he goes to negative, it will be
welcomed by HRC because she enjoys it when the mud is flying. I do wish that the people that he has representing him would be more forcefull though. He needs to keep his hands clean, I do believe that HRC's ugly campaign tactics is now starting to come back in bite her is the azz.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Thanks. That's where I'm at also. nt
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. He should save it for the GE
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. If he allows himself to get drawn down in it...
then his entire platform is called into question. I think he should have responded more quickly to the BS thrown at him before the last round of primaries/caucuses, but other than the poor timing of his response, he's been doing really well at negating most of the cheap shots and has done so with class. He's proving with every attack that he's got the temperament to be one of the greatest leaders we've had in this country...I'm looking forward to it.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. I wouldn't advise him to just stand there like Kerry did absorbing news cycles
I think he & his team are shocked every time they have to, as though their plan all along was to just *walk* on in there like some holy processional in Vatican City. And that's just not understanding the process. Jesus was nailed to a cross, or so it is said, and he was The Son Of God!

BO is a politician from ChiTown. I'd think he should be ready, willing & able to defend himself.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I agree, pretending it never happened is not a good response.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:25 AM by casus belli
But, I think Barack has done a really good job of countering these accusations as they have come up. He was just a little late on the last round and probably underestimated its impact. I don't see him making the same mistake twice.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. A straight forward assessment, thanks...
:toast:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. There's the gem; he won't be mistaking the next attack. He's learning
as he goes. :thumbsup:

Who in their right mind would want to be prez? And why?
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Not sure...glad it's him though. n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
43. I LOVED Kerrry, and I love Obama. So sue me. They are
very similar in that they are honorable men. You probably don't get what that means because there have been few and far between for a good while.

Trust me, I love Kerry for his deep love for our country and I really believe Barack Obama feels the same way. That's a significant start. Instead of wanting to screw anything that moves, I long for someone to try to make it better.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Excuse me? My Daddy was an honorable man, as was my GodFather...
both extensively decorated military men and discharged with great honors. And my husband is an honorable man for that matter. I think that BO peeps need to stop and hear, or read the condescension that seems to flow ("You probably don't get what that means because") from their interactions with the rest of the world.

I do think 'the message' would go much farther for BO peeps to understand that other people, Americans, do "get" it already and simple have a different opinion. That the bed-sheet is poised to be split very near right up the middle. And to ease off of such, however lofty & handed down from on high: aggressions.

But I see, if this board is any indication, that many BO guys & gals have every intention of driving the bus right off the cliff in the process of dredging up Bill Clinton's penis all over again, Oy!
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. babylongsister, am glad he is taking the high road. He is classy and I admire him!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. A Canadian! He's trying to take the high road. Thanks! nt
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. Actually, he has been doing the opposite...
He is doing exactly what Bush did in 2000 and 2004, claiming to be 'above the fray' while his supporters and the media feverishly attack his opponants, in his name.

Pure Rove....

Smear artist

"Rove developed a template for smearing opponents. The goal was to have his candidates hover above the fray while urging their opponents to concentrate on issues, thereby constantly putting them in a position of having to play defense and deny unfounded accusations. Eventually, the Rove client, according to the script, would step out to demand an end to the ugliness. Of course, Rove wrote the narrative of these plans in such a way that calling for a truce would not occur until the damage had already been done to his opposition."
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. That is the difference between Obama verses clinton and mccain
Obama maintains his perspective, and thinks. clinton and mccain don't think, they utilize fear, anger, and negative attributes of human nature

Obama defends himself, but does so in a way dignified as a President

In the final analysis, it comes done to this:

good judgement trumps experience any day

and voting for the IWR, the Kyle/Lieberman ammendement does NOT represent good judgement


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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. Good judgment is so sexy to me, and that can lead to so much more! nt
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
45. McCain's middle name is "Mothball Farts", isn't it? nt
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