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You know what really cracks me up about the campaign Hillary has run?

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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:33 PM
Original message
You know what really cracks me up about the campaign Hillary has run?
Imagine if Hillary had followed Dean's 50 state stategy for winning delegates?
Imagine if Hillary had built a real solid grass roots organization to gotv,raise money and win caucus's?

She would have blown away Obama.
She wouldn't have had to go negative to stave off defeat.

She has been outgeneraled. So much for all that experience advantage.

I'm Canadian and am observing from the sidelines with detachment.

Congrats Obama, you've got political game. :applause:

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Absolutely true.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. The ironic thing is she constantly implies he is a novice
If he's a novice and has run such a wonderful campaign, by comparison, what does that make her? If I were her, I would quit inviting the comparisons.

I have been constantly amazed at the amateurish campaign she has run.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Bush won the Presidency
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 11:45 PM by NYCALIZ
and proved to be a freaking disaster as President.
Winning the nomination or election is not proof of Presidential ability.
Not to say that Clinton has proven Presidential ability either so I'm not saying Obama's worse than Clinton.

But I'm strongly of the opinion that the people that want really WANT the job of President are probably not people who I want in the role.

Edited: its probably why I want GORE. He no longer is seeking the role. He understands it. And he could do a great job


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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. But Bush never won on his own merit.
His daddy was a president. I knew Bush was an idiot in 2000, but I had no idea he was gonna be that bad. lol


But I'm strongly of the opinion that the people that want really WANT the job of President are probably not people who I want in the role. I agree 100%. Gandhi didn't want power.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I don't think either Clinton or Obama will win on their own merits
they too will win because someone else is worse.
Not because they are wonderful
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Dang.
That's about the size of it.

Sorta explains the continual drift toward negative campaigning, doesn't it?

One of the things that's truly amazing about this campaign is how so very many people think this is unique and groundbreaking, when the tactics are as stale as cafeteria food at closing time.

The big newfound glee of the Obama Cavalcade is just a warmed over and fluffed up version of faddish flashy outsider acts from past seasons, and the stately juggernaut of the veteran schtick from the Clinton campaign has many forebears. The current front-runner regularly derides negativity, and the beat goes on. For all the fireworks and outrage, it's all somehow rather dull. I think that's because the two of THEM are.

People constantly repeat what a legendary orator Obama is, but I don't hear or feel it. Maybe it's just because the ponderous, ultra-significant minister cadence leaves me so cold by nature. Neither really stands out with star quality to me, much as they try for it. They're okay, but no more than that: solid supporting cast. Others see it, obviously, but I wonder if they would if they hadn't been told it was there...
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. I agree with you
the preach-y tone of Obama rubs me exactly the wrong way.
But I have a traditional religious background: none of the revivalist fervor.

And like you, I realize there is nothing new there.
I realize that he's just another politician.
I've read enough about him to know that he's a skilled politician.
But he's repeatedly done what he did with NAFTA on other issues.
Said one thing to the voter, did another thing for real power.
But just because they whisper pretty words in your ear while they are screwing you over, doesn't negate the fact that they are screwing you over

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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. We don't have much disagreement here
But I would not say Bush* won the Presidency; he seized it. I prefer the latter word. I think you are correct in saying the people who want the Presidency are not necessarily the most preferable of candidates - I believe most people feel that way. Some time ago, when politics really started to become ugly, it was often said as time went by the truly qualified, more intelligent possible candidates would opt not to run because of the ugly nature of the beast of campaign. I believe we are now in that stage. The best choose not the quest. A fine example of that is Gore. He too is my number 1 choice. I guess he's just too smart though to wallow in the mud to get to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. he won it....
it might have taken dirty tricks and a Supreme decision.....but he won it.

Actually Bush had way more experience than either Obama or Clinton.
I'd hazard the opinion that being the governor of a large state is as close a job to being President as any other in the USA.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Except in Texas
The Governor of Texas does not run the daily operations of that state. The lieutenant governor does. The legislature does not regularly meet (it used to be for just a handful of months each year - if not every other year). The top spot was mainly a PR stint. George Bush* had literally no experience no sit in the Oval Office, just a title he carried for two terms in the Texas Governor's mansion.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Apparently Dean couldn't even follow his own strategy, cause
I don't recall him being a presidential nominee.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. He had no support from the DNC Chair at the time.
Dean's strategy got us the House and Senate in '06.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. He also got pwned when the real politics went into play.
He got on the ground in Iowa and just was pummled. He was completely unprepared for what Kerry had planned for him. Dirty tactics on the ground, thousands of leader figures at the caucuses. Obama had it planned this way from the start. Focus only on caucus states, buy those caucuses using coercion, and so on.

It's why Obama's delegates are cheaper than Hillary's. He actually pays for them.

Read my sigline.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Obama has won just as many primaries as Hillary...
Not his fault caucuses go his way
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yep, it was hers to lose. and she has lost it (in more ways than one)
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Imagine if Hillary thought she had to win it instead of thinking she was the incumbent?
And after trashing so many people in her way to make it happen. Quelle sorrow. Ha!
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Spot on n/t
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. While it would doubtlessly be much closer, I don't think she would have the same lead
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 11:48 PM by IDemo
Somehow I just can't envision her getting 14,000+ screaming followers into an arena in Boise, Idaho. Or in many other places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z__BFQuDSkE&feature=rela...

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sadly, I think you are imaging a Hillary who doesn't exist; unfortunately, she
has bared her true self to us and we're turning away --- !!!


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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Turning away...truly
repulsed.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Could she have gotten to her position without being who she is?
A question for the ages. People like Bush and Kaiser Wilhelm II were born into their high positions and did not have to exert the effort the Clintons have. Imagine if she had applied all that energy and immense determination to something like world hunger, HIV or world peace!
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
16. Exactly, the end reulst of 35 years of experience is disorganistion and unprepared day 1.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
17. She didn't have the money to buy caucuses.
Obviously you are correct. Dean had this same exact problem. By losing caucuses as the "odd guy out" (and other issues), and not buying caucuses (by paying staffers on the ground to create this aura of likeablity), he lost.

Obama won the caucus states because he spent $20 million on staffers, on the ground. Hillary spent $5 million on one staffer at HQ. It was a mistake of epic proportions.

Had she simply brought the caucuses like Obama did we would not be having this discussion and the point would be moot.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. She had $140 million before the first vote was cast!

The fact that her campaign pissed away money by paying millions to guys like Mark Penn instead of investing it into a solid ground game is yet ANOTHER reason why she shouldn't be president.
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Great point.
I don't know whether she really had this feeling of inevitability or what happened, but she really was late to the game. Even if she was inevitable, the extra legs in 50 states could not have hurt her.

And being so late with the web donation thing was just amazing to me.

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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
21. Could you post a copy of Dean's 50 State strategy for a Presidential campaign? eom
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. She was overconfident, and felt some sense of entitlement.
I've always gotten a vibe from her that she sort of feels like it's her "turn" or something. Like she's been kept waiting long enough and now is the time we all do what we're supposed to do. I feel like she hasn't really considered the possibility that she may lose. Her demeanor suggests that we've all got to wake up and realize that we're being naive if she isn't our candidate. That other pursuits are silly and meaningless.

I think if nothing else. This election was a wake up call for Hillary, that there is no - or at least should not be - any automatic entitlements to anything in this country.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hillary can NOT run a 50-State "Grassroots" campaign.
Her Corporate Owners would NOT like that.
The Clinton Machine (DLC) is a Top Down authorian organization that needs the power concentrated in a few centralized wealthy hands.
Having to answer to the citizens is NOT in their plan.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. And if she had done so, we could have had a Clinton/Obama ticket
Which probably would have worked just fine in spite of her high negatives.

But now, it would never work.
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