Ralph Nader exposed

[mot78]

"I hate to use military analogies," he continues, "but this is war on the two parties. After November we're going to go after the Congress in a very detailed way, district by district. We're going to beat them in every possible way. If winning 51 to 49 percent, we're going to go in and beat them with Green votes. They've got to lose people, whether they're good or bad. They've got to lose people to be put under the intense choice of changing the party or watching it dwindle."

http://www.danconley.com/nadersucks/


Can Naderites now stop saying Nader wants to reform the party than destroy it. He tried to make us lose on purpose in 2000, and not just at the POTUS level.

[MoonRiver]

1. In my mind, Nader is second only to */Cheney as the most dangerous person

in our country today.

[ulysses]

2. only about the 250th time

this particular quote has been "exposed". Good work!

[MoonRiver]

4. Hey, repetition is how a message becomes imprinted in peoples' minds.

Rush does it, Rove does it, FAUX et al. does it, so We does it! :D

[ulysses]

5. hey, at least you're being honest.

A bit obsessive, perhaps, but honest. :shrug:

[John_H]

26. And just as true now as it was those other times

[Ardee]

3. reading is not understanding, sorry...

You poor democrats are so under the thumb of the right wing DLC that you have lost your ability to see clearly...a damn shame.

Read that post yourself and understand its last line...really, really think.

"They've got to lose people to be put under the intense choice of changing the party or watching it dwindle."

Does that sound like someone under the thrall of the GOP? No of course it doesnt ,it sounds like someone dedicated to IMPROVING and RESCUING the Democratic Party.

[MoonRiver]

6. "YOU" poor Democrats??????????

And just what are you?

And, btw, I DO NOT agree with that last line. I will FUCKING NOT change parties to satisfy the ego of Ralph Nader or any other slimeball ANTI-DEMOCRATIC PROPAGANDIST. And the fact is that the Democratic Party is unified as never before despite the efforts of Repukes and maniacs like Nader. We've got a presumptive nominee who has the most liberal voting record of any Senator in Congress, and our base is energized to the hilt. God willing, we'll save this country from the forces of fascism, and, for that, imho, even Traitor Nader will eventually thank US.

[ulysses]

7. sit down, have some dip.

You're about to throw a rod. The quote was "change THE party" not "change parties".

[sangha]

8. "we're going to go in and beat them with Green votes"

Well, since they only want me to change, I guess it's OK if they beat me. I'll just sit here quietly while they try to beat me.

Ni-i-i-ce!

[ulysses]

9. hey, it's sangha!

Look, everybody, sangha's here! :party:

[sangha]

10. hey uly!!

How's it hanging?

[ulysses]

11. just fine, thanks - you?

[Dr Fate]

12. "...have some dip"- now THAT'S FUNNY!!!

!!!

[ulysses]

14. thanks, but I can't claim it.

It's supposed to be from a movie, but I can't remember which one or find any references online. The technical architect at one of my old jobs used to say it daily. :D

30. Its a George Carlin Quote

I don't remember the setup, but the punchline was:

"I'm Pregnant, you're the father, and I'm gonna kill all 3 of us. Calm down...have some dip."

Or something very close to that.

[Ardee]

17. Jesus freaking christ,

can you not read, comprehend and understand? WTF are you doing here when you cannot understand a simple sentence?

29. Actually, this board is part of a vast conspiracy to annoy you

everyone is in on it.

Just thought you might want to know...

[jpgray]

13. Nader isn't interested in changing the Democratic party

He's said so himself. He's interested in 'heightening the contradictions', which is a way of using the intense suffering and death that accompanies right wing authoritarian governments for your own political gain. 'It needs to get worse before it gets better' is ends justifies the means rhetoric at its worst, working toward disaster for political gain. It will never fly with me, and should never fly with anyone who calls themselves progressive, liberal or leftist. Camejo and Cobb seem far better choices to me than Nader does.

[Ardee]

20. Thats fine

Camejo and Cobb are good alternatives to the mess that is the Democratic Party.

But I strongly disagree with your assessment of Nader anyway....it is your words not his that you attribute to him, his meaning is rather clear to me.....:think:

[jpgray]

25. Again, you show a fundamental lack of knowledge concerning Nader's words

Nader told David Moberg of In These Times that he wanted to lead 'the Greens into a "death struggle" with the Democratic Party to determine which will be the majority party.'

Nader has made the "the worse, the better" case in regards to Republicans and the environment. He said that Reagan-era Interior Secretary James Watt was useful because he was a "provocateur" for change, citing the boost in the Sierra Club's membership.

Close to the 2000 election, Nader applied the same logic to Bush himself in a speech Nader gave at Chapman University in Orange, California, according to the LAT: "After lambasting Gore as part of a do-nothing Clinton administration, Nader said, 'If it were a choice between a provocateur and an anesthetizer, I'd rather have a provocateur. It would mobilize us.' "

This is 'ends justifies the means' by definition, and it is 'heightening the contradictions' by definition. Where, exactly, did I put words in Nader's mouth?

[jpgray]

24. Dupe

x

[javadu]

15. If Nader's Goal Is to Save the Democratic Party

Tell him, "NO THANK YOU!!!!"

What makes Nader think that we want or need him to save our party?

Why won't he listen to those of us screaming at him to, "LEAVE US ALONE?"

Nader's brand of chemotherapy is not needed. His supposed patient is not sick and is no need of his assistance.

He is a creepy old man with a huge ego and a messiah complex.

Don't drink the kool-aid at any of his rallies.

[Ardee]

19. you havent a clue, do you?

You may cover your ears, shut your eyes and scream at the top of your lungs like some child having a tantrum. That doesnt alter the fact that your party has been usurped by the right wing, displays abysmal cowardice instead of speaking out clearly (excepting of course for Byrd, Waxman, Kennedy and Kucinich). You refuse to see the failures at the polls in the mid terms, the complicity with every fucking Bush agenda, the crawling on their knees before the same corporate interests that made this mess as symptoms of the sickness in your party..pity....Perhaps Jeb in '08 will awaken you.

27. Really, no need to be abusive

And relax just a little, eh?

BTW - Just because the Dems have swung away from the left doesn't mean they have been "usurped" by the right wing.

If anything, both the right and the left have been subject to having factions drawn towards the dark side of corporatism, and though Nader once had a history of populist reform, he has also shown himself attracted to the dark side.

Darth Nader is not the savior of anybody, he is just a guy who wants to be POTUS and rule the free world. He will say whatever he needs to to convince folks like you that he still cares.

We need his brand of help like we need an anal cyst.

[mot78]

16. That's beside the point

In his quote, Nader says that the Greens need to DELIBERATELY COST DEMOCRATS ELECTIONS TO FORCE THEM TO ADHERE TO THE GREEN PLATFORM. We should not be held hostage policy-wise to Nader. BTW, for those who says Nader was trying to change the party and stop the DLC, there are already people doing that, and their names are Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich.

[Ardee]

18. Howard Dean is as much a problem to the democrats as is the DLC

He is nothing but a phoney opportunist usurping the mantle of Paul wellstone when his entire political history is one of centrism , friction with his own party in Vermont while getting along famously with the GOP there.

Nader sees the democrats far more accurately than do you and your fellow neocons( yeah yeah I know you are a liberal...)and his every speech screams for them to see the error of their ways and change so that they can defeat Bush and change a system gone sour.

Pogo was absolutely correct.

[LandOLincoln]

21. Via usted a inferno-- and take your stealth NeoCon buddy

Ralph Nader with you.

[zulchzulu]

23. Improving and rescuing the Democratic party by siphoning off votes

That makes a lot of sense. With friends like Nader, who needs enemies.

[zulchzulu]

22. I cannot wait for Nader to visit my town

I've been practicing my pie-on-the-face technique. The tricky part is shooting a photo when you pie the person at the same time.

[Guaranteed]

28. Magistrate? What do you think about this philosophy

of Nader's? Gotta make the party lose to make them learn....

[mzmolly]

31. It's like punative parenting...

Ridiculous, damaging, self defeating ... and totally ineffective.