Here is the sad truth: If Obama doesn't win, we'll NEVER elect a black president.

[Ken Burch]

There won't be any time in the future when people would do it if they won't do it now.

And we'll have sent this message to ALL African Americans:

Go to hell. We don't care about you. We never did. We want your votes and that's all.

That's the reality folks.

This is the last chance to make that history.

It'll be too late to try again later.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. Nonsense

Will we never elect a Jew because Lieberman didn't get the nomination?

[Ken Burch]

10. No, we'll just never elect Lieberman.

Lieberman never embodied hopes for anyone's future anyway. He was just about war.

[LulaMay]

31. Absolute nonsense. Seriously, this poster is clueless and insulting.

[Snowbot]

2. Never is a very powerful word.

I don't think that we can say that. But I agree, this is an important opportunity.

[LulaMay]

3. That is just wrong, ugly, threatening BS.

[Ken Burch]

4. Fine. Maybe it will be thirty years later.

But we'd all have to admit that would be too late to matter.

[LulaMay]

15. What in the HELL are you babbling about?! Are you DRUNK?! Seriously.

[Ken Burch]

17. If we once again tell African Americans "know your place, wait your turn, SOMEDAY..."

Will we still have any moral right to ask them for their votes?

HRC is just the Beltway establishment candidate. Her presidency couldn't transform anything.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

28. I support feminism. The election of a centrist hawk who simply happens to be female isn't feminist.

It's never feminist to elect a bland non-progressive.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

35. What benefits feminism is the election of the most progressive candidate.

n/t.

[Ken Burch]

36. It'd be different if it were Bella Abzug or Gloria Steinem.

Then your position would be justified.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

52. Yes it would. Progressive women are feminists. Centrists aren't.

And we need to elect the most progressive candidate.

My opposition to HRC has never been about her gender. It's about her conservativism and her ties to the right-wing Beltway establishment.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

62. I doubt African Americans can stand you.

I'm for the liberation of all people. The Rainbow needs it first. Workers and the poor need it first. A bland centrist can't create the conditions for anyone to liberate themselves.

What's condescending about pointing out that the rich don't remember prejudice? What's gross about pointing out that once you've sat on corporate boards you aren't on the side of the people anymore?

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

83. I didn't say women come last. I'd like to see HRC on the Supreme Court.

Caucasian women, especially the rich ones like HRC, have come a lot closer to political equality than POC's have.

I support REAL feminists, the progressive ones. Not the ones who back a big defense budget.

[Ken Burch]

34. HRC doesn't give a damn about feminism. If she did, she wouldn't be establishment

She'd be leading the struggle among the grassroots.

She's not on your side, Lula. Rich women aren't.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LulaMay]

42. You are sickeningly condescending. I know your type of 'liberal' man. Back off Jack.

[boppers]

5. No jews, Catholics, Women, Athiests...

... but I see what you're doing. It's funny.

Here's a fun link:
http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/woman_presidential_candidates.htm

[Ken Burch]

8. It's no real setback for women if HRC doesn't get it.

A woman president is an inevitability anyway, and electing a non-feminist hawk isn't really a victory for women anyway.

And we had a couple of athiest presidents anyway. Lincoln and Jefferson.

The blow of being denied will be too great for African Americans. They'll just lose all reason to stay involved, especially since they won't matter in a HRC administration.

[LulaMay]

13. Are you fucking serious?! How dare you discount the prejudice we face, see in this race.

[Ken Burch]

37. Women face prejudice. Electing a rich white women doesn't change that.

HRC isn't working class, she doesn't know what it's really about.

[LulaMay]

45. You are so smart. I bet you charm all the girls with your superior thoughts and oily ways.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftCoast]

6. Here is the sad truth: If Clinton doesn't win, we'll NEVER elect a female president.

There won't be any time in the future when people would do it if they won't do it now.

And we'll have sent this message to ALL female Americans:

Go to hell. We don't care about you. We never did. We want your votes and that's all.

That's the reality folks.

This is the last chance to make that history.

It'll be too late to try again later.

[Ken Burch]

9. Wrong. We're certain to have a female presdent in a few years anyway.

And next time, it might be a female Democratic president. Women are never going to lose political ground in this country again.

[LulaMay]

14. Really?! Women didn't get the vote until 70 years after being told they would 'next'

[LeftCoast]

16. I really wish I could have some of these Team Obama superpowers

I truly do. I mean, to be able to see into the future. Wow. So cool!

[Ken Burch]

19. You can't think electing an nonwhite president later would still matter.

By the next time,which would have to be at least another thirty years or so, the candidate would be a young Doug Wilder. That couldn't even be worth bothering with.

[LulaMay]

24. Again, what the HELL are you saying??!! NOTHING...you are making no sense and insulting all.

[Ken Burch]

29. It's nothing to women if HRC wins or not.

You don't need her. She isn't part of the struggle and she never was. She's establishment.

[LeftCoast]

32. Wow. First rule...when in hole stop digging.

[LeftCoast]

27. I can't even tell what you're basing this argument on, except for hope

If you can't see that your thesis could just as easily be flipped on its head, I don't know what I can say.

:shrug:

[LulaMay]

48. Insanity and Insults to women.

[Ken Burch]

50. I support feminism. I support working class progressive women.

HRC isn't on your side. You've been fooled.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

56. I don't have to back HRC to support feminism.

Rich people don't experience oppression. It's as simple as that.

Class trumps it.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

77. And you're a right winger with anger issues. Chill.

I support REAL liberation. Only people who started from the lower end of the income level can lead the way to that. The rich can't.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

84. Wrong. I respect women. HRC isn't really about women, that's the point you're missing.

She's about corporate power and CEO's. She's about a Scoop Jackson foreign policy. She's about globalization. None of that is good for women.

If a progressive antiwar feminist was running, I'd support her.

[Syrinx]

7. I'm less interested in electing a black president, than electing a great president

I think Obama has the potential to be a great president, while Hillary Clinton does not.

[easy_b94]

11. O is going to win this!!!!!!!!!! trust me ;)

[Ken Burch]

12. OK, I hope you're right.

It'll be a tragedy if you're wrong.

[Uben]

18. You don't elect a prez based on race

That thought is so adolescent! We want the "best" candidate, not the "blackest".

Go ahead and put this out to the public. I assure you it will make him sink faster than a ton of bricks.

Our nominee needs to be a leader, capable of putting together a team to run this country correctly, and not like the idiots who have bounced in and out of the Bush administration for the last seven years. This is serious and it's not a popularity contest. We desperately need the 'best" we can get. Is that Obama? If it is, them he should win. If not, we should elect someone else.

[Ken Burch]

26. We want to elect someone who's election says "this is an office anyone can aspire to".

We want a president who looks like America.

And can you, if it doesn't happen this year, ever go to an African American neighborhood with a clear conscience and still ask those people to vote Democratic? If we once again tell them "not yet"?

HRC is a bland technocrat. She'd be a competent centrist manager, and that's it. No empowerment, no transformation. What's the point in settling for the mundane and non-historic?

[Uben]

43. You damned right I can!

You have your opinion, I have mine. I like mine much better!

[ima_sinnic]

57. who are "those people"? and what's this "we" CRAP?

you sound like a real JERK

[Ken Burch]

63. We, are the party. Most of which is still controlled by white men.

"They" are the working-class Rainbow majority, most of whom aren't part of HRC's vision.

It's a question of who can help the powerless liberate themselves.

An inspirational figure can. A bland centrist technocratic hawk can't.

If you're about a big defense budget you aren't about justice.

[skooooo]

21. Thanks Nostradamus.

:eyes:

[donheld]

22. That's just totally stupid

[Birthmark]

23. I must have my crystal ball...

...tuned to a different frequency. I'm not getting that at all.

[ima_sinnic]

25. what a bunch of crap! DOH!

I'm sure, say, in 2016, in 2066, in 2084, in 2292, in 2580, etc. people will say, well, they tried two hundred (800) (1200) years ago to elect a black president and because he didn't win the election, that closed the book on it forever and ever. Somehow it became a law of nature, from that moment on, that a black person could never ever ever in the whole history of the entire universe ever become president.

But who gives a flying f*ck what the candidate's race is?

If we don't elect the BEST CANDIDATE now, we never will? gee, guess what? the BEST candidate has not been elected several times. 1980, when Ray-gun won, is a good example. Didn't Jimmy Carter run for a second term? He was twice the man that that phony cowboy a-hole ever was. In fact, any time a repuke wins, you can bet your ass that the BEST candidate has not won. I'm not counting 2000 and 2004 because in both cases the BEST candidate WAS elected, Gore, then Kerry, but the presidency was stolen in a coup d'etat, by Supreme Court fiat along with fraudulent vote counting.

[paperbag_ princess]

30. I see what you are doing too

but the argument is that if the roles were reversed and Hillary was the one new to the national political scene then she would not have even been considered serious.

That is why there are calls from women to not miss this chance and the feeling of hopelessness if the chance is lost. The theme of an experienced older woman being passed over by a charismatic, younger, less experienced man is common in our society.

[barack the house]

38. Don't make it about race, he's got plentyto endorse him over colour. His integrity foremost.

[Ken Burch]

66. I know. But the historical significance matters too.

And the experiences that Obama brings to this as an African American and the son of an immigrant, experiences no wealthy white American can ever have had, are part of what I treasure about the idea of his being president.

[anniebelle]

39. You got a crystal ball, heh?

[soothsayer]

40. That's just plain silly.

[Florida22ndDistrict]

46. RE: If Obama doesn't win, we'll NEVER elect a black president.

Why not develop some real friendships with black people and treat them like people, rather then a statistic. The concept of brotherhood is about becoming one people, with equal rights and respect, not about trying to have a token black president for the sake of having a black president. I'm sure that once the baby boomer generation has died out that the vast majority of Americans will have gotten over the racism of the civil rights era and prior. Some will still linger, but a lot will have changed.

[Mezzo]

49. B U L L S H I T ! ! Please stop playing the race card

it's unbecoming.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. You Can Substitute Gender For Race

Here is the sad truth: If Hillary doesn't win, we'll NEVER elect a female president.


There won't be any time in the future when people would do it if they won't do it now.

And we'll have sent this message to ALL women:

Go to hell. We don't care about you. We never did. We want your votes and to be repositories for our sperm and that's all.

That's the reality folks.

This is the last chance to make that history.

It'll be too late to try again later.

:sarcasm:

[whistle]

55. Why?

[Ken Burch]

58. Because if both Jesse and Barack are denied, it'll just be too much to overcome.

You'll never get another African American to try. Why would they bother, when this would clearly be the final message from white America on the subject?

It's time to make history. It's time to elect somebody who can transform the country and electrify it. HRC can't do that. She can only manage the status quo.

[LeftCoast]

61. Wow...could you possibly be any more insulting to African Americans?

OMFG

[Ken Burch]

64. You can't care about African Americans and back HRC.

Not this year.

[LeftCoast]

70. Are you calling me a racist?

:wtf:

[Ken Burch]

71. I'm calling you condescending and dismissive to the significance of the Obama campaign.

The HRC campaign has no historical significance. It isn't a victory for women to elect a non-progressive woman.

[LeftCoast]

75. Saying we should vote for Obama because of his race isn't condescending?

Mmmm hmmm.

And who the fuck are you to decide which race has 'historical significance'? You don't think the first woman running for President has any historical significance, but the first black man does?

You need to take the hillary-hate glasses off and look at the BS you're spouting.

[whistle]

68. Wow, then I guess the racists have been right all along

...sorry, Obama will be nominated and elected if he is right and demonstrates that he is a true leader, not some marketing group's creature creation who can mesmerize his followers.

[WinkyDink]

59. Never is a long time. And I thought it wasn't about race.

[Ken Burch]

65. Well, maybe in thirty or fifty years, when it won't be worth anything.

Which is the same as never.

You know if HRC gets in she'll make sure Barack never gets nominated after her.

[Orangepeel]

60. I don't agree. But it sure makes as much sense as Clinton being the last chance for a woman

which I've seen people babble about a couple of times

[EmilyAnne]

67. A Barack Obama win will be a beautiful and historic thing, but a loss won't be as bad as you make

it out. With or without the presidency, this man is not going anywhere anytime soon. He will inspire many African Americans to get involved in politics. He will be an advocate for meaningfull change, even from the Senate.

Do you think that the African American community is only capable of producing one person worthy of the presidency? I sure don't/

[Ken Burch]

69. The African American community will always produce a lot o people who would be great presidents

But will any of them try for it if it slips away this year?

I don't want to see all of these people get told "not yet" yet again.

[EmilyAnne]

73. I guess it depends on how it goes down. If there are racist attacks. If the nomination is brokered

in a way that appears to disregard the outcome of the primaries.

[Ken Burch]

That would make a difference.

And I'm sorry if I sound alarmist, it's just that I want this election to have SOME kind of meaning.

[printpolitico]

74. near sighted view

The african american community doesn't view things this way. As a whole a great deal of them in the south think it is possible that he isn't ready now.
And would rather him take a run in 4 years when his chances of running a successful Presidency are stronger. They don't want his historic legacy to be one of failure.
Therefore, If he must wait and build a powerful resume to insure a better shot at success then so be it.

[Ken Burch]

82. I respect what you are saying.

it's the "Get outta the way, HRC is entitled to get it FIRST" crowd that I'm battling with. And it would be a lot easier to trust them on this if it hadn't been for the S.Carolina campaign tactics.

[printpolitico]

87. tactics questioned both sides

Granted some of these tactics are below belt, but let's be fair. Obama didn't grace his signs with a photo until SC. He also wanted to be seen as the black mans choice. A lower key and almost under the radar way of doing it. Let's face reality, sure he wants to play up the black vote somehow, just as she is playing up Latino. It politics, games, low blows, and scandal.

[Recursion]

76. Shirley Chisholm was black AND female

This "identity" crap is getting old, to me. We're not shutting women and/or AAs out.

[Ken Burch]

80. Shirley Chisholm was great. Bella was great. Gloria Steinem is great.

Dolores Huerta is someone I admire(I don't know why she sold out and backed the rich candidate, but what can you do?).

I support progressive, grassroots feminists. Not yuppies. They've all joined the other side.

[LulaMay]

85. You don't grasp anything those leaders of OURS have said or done. They don't want your company.

[Ken Burch]

86. Bella Abzug would never back HRC, and you know it.

n/t.

[Vinca]

78. I'm an Obama supporter, but that's just dumb.

It's as dumb as the whiny "we'll never elect a woman if Hillary doesn't win" complaint. There is more than 1 black person and more than 1 woman qualified to be president in this country.