Tampa op ed: "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"

[madfloridian]

This is made even more heartwarming to me because it was written by Talbot D'Alemberte, president emeritus of Florida State University and former president of the American Bar Association.

There is so little on this topic in Florida that makes sense. This is rather healing to me to read this. I thank him for it.

Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election

I recently heard a respected Democrat, a state senator, tell an audience that if Florida delegates are not seated, he was not sure he would support the Democratic nominee. This argument has a superficial attraction even when made by the very people who got us in this mess, that is, the leadership of the Florida party including its elected officials.

He explains the events leading up to this mess we are in, then he offers more.

• In March and April 2007, in the face of warnings from the DNC, the Florida Legislature voted overwhelmingly to move the primary date to Jan. 29, and the Democrats supported this legislation. The Florida Democratic Party and elected Democrats did little to achieve compliance with the national rules, although Rep. Dan Gelber, the House Democratic minority leader, did attempt to amend the legislation setting up the new primary date to provide a later date, and a similar effort was made in the Senate.

The bill being considered at the time called for a paper ballot, an important issue to the Democrats and, when the amendment failed, the bill passed with support from the Democrats in both houses. In line with the party rules and the notice given to Florida Democrats, the party's Rules Committee met in August 2007 and voted to take away Florida delegates to the convention.

We now find ourselves in a very odd situation. The party leadership and many of the elected Democrats took the risk of violating party rules, many promoting the change. They ignored the notice from the DNC and the substantial legal precedent that gives the party control over its own rules and supports its authority to set the terms of its delegate selection. Surely the party leaders and lawyers know of the legal rule that respects party autonomy and avoids the chaos that would exist if the primary and caucus dates were simply left to every state, a system that the U.S. Supreme Court has said would produce "an obviously intolerable result."

More about the very odd situation. He presents it well.

Today, the strange situation is that the party leadership, now bemoaning the loss of delegates and loss of the voters' right to participate, are the very people who behaved in a cavalier way to bring us to this situation. The Florida Democratic Party leadership has gotten us into this mess, and some are even threatening to enlist the courts in some kind of epic battle, knowing full well that the courts offer no basis for the relief they are seeking.

Moreover, their announced motivation - to increase Florida's influence - would have been achieved if they had left the issue alone or if they had accepted the DNC offer to fund caucuses. Indeed, if Florida had a primary or caucus some time now, in early March, we might actually have had a real impact on this election.

Wouldn't that have been fun?

This is one of the rare instances in Florida media that lets the truth out. It is much appreciated.

Since Florida leaders plan to involve the Supreme Court, I will continue to say what I think.

Lawsuit over Florida delegates will be appealed to Supreme Court if needed.

[TheDonkey]

1. Thank you tampa for telling it like it is. To think if FL would have just followed the rules they

could have really made an impression.

[Johnny__Motown]

2. the Clinton people here are not gonna like this one. ,,K&R...

[UALRBSofL]

6. This is just his OP-ED Opinion peice

However, he is not a member of the FDP. That said, I was just thinking after reading this thread of contacting Fred Levin to give his OP-ED peice on the situation and he doesn't take kindly to the situation with Dean. He lives in my home town and the University of Florida Law School was named after him. He has much influence in the state of Florida. I wonder if he will consider doing it for the paper?

[madfloridian]

9. The only people who think FL is right are Clinton people.

I am sorry but breaking rules and blaming others is not acceptable.

I figured I be blasted from here to yonder, so just go for it. This is a situation where people are going to take it to the Supreme Court to get the delegates.

So get pissed off at me, I am used to it.

[bilgewaterbill]

31. The Clinton people wouldn't think FL was right if Hillary was leading.

[madfloridian]

10. You get your team together and sue Dean some more. Go for it.

Sue the hell out of the DNC. Let's let the Supreme Court decide.

That is going to lose us the election if Hillary gets the delegates that way.

Those are facts. The rest is opinion.

[Johnny__Motown]

49. It wouldn't hurt to ask

[davidpdx]

3. MF, Good post

Please continue to keep us updated.

[madfloridian]

33. Thanks. I plan to keep on.

It needs to be pointed out.

[ContinentalOp]

4. How do these rules work anyway?

So the state legislature sets the primary date but the parties have to agree to it? I'm curious how the state of CA was allowed to move our primary up but FL and MI weren't.

[madfloridian]

7. CA stayed outside the pre-window. Florida and MI moved ahead of Feb. 5

.

[ContinentalOp]

12. Gotcha, thanks!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

5. How is this heartwarming??

also - I'm from Florida and far as I know - MY arrogance didn't cause my vote not to count. I love how all these people who are NOT from Florida seem to find it amusing that we are being screwed over once more.... This is a very touchy situation for us down here. If the Dem Party wants to ever get the state of Florida in their column again - they had better make some sort of an effort.

[madfloridian]

8. Heartwarming to me because I care about the truth.

And Florida blamed this on everyone but themselves.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. You act like everyone in Florida is to blame - like we're one big entity.

How would you feel if Barak Obama were the one behind becasue of a state he carried didn't count? You'd be screaming bloody murder - is my guess.

[madfloridian]

14. Not true. It is the Florida leaders who are to blame. The people will pay the price

So if they re-elect the bastards they will be to blame as well. Most don't even have a clue what happened. Nor do they really care.

[HooptieWagon]

17. No, the rules were agreed upon many years ago

by ALL parties. Florida tried to jump to the head of the line - a Dem introduced
the legislation moving the primary date up, and it passed 115-1. The state was repeatedly warned by the DNC, and were offered the feb 5th date. Instead, FDP sued, and lost the case. No, the voters aren't to blame, and no, the DNC is not to blame for enforcing the agreed upon rules. Blame FDP Chair Karen Thurman and Sen Bill Nelson for their arrogance leading us into this situation. And yes, even if Obama had won FL it would be proper for FL to abide by the rules.

[madfloridian]

32. And Dean reiterated that today...said change the rules later, not now.

in his CNN interview.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. So because the Democratic leaders of the Florida Democratic

Party proceeded with a move that they KNEW was going to cost the state its delegates, you're going to switch sides to the Republicans, rather than REPLACE the leaders that did this to you?

Boy, THAT'LL teach em.

[HooptieWagon]

19. Well, yes, some dumbasses will probably do that

The rest of us will wait until the state congress-critters are up for relection, and will vote against them as payback for their arrogance.

[xxqqqzme]

34. did you read the piece?

Haven't you read ANY other pieces madfloridian has presented to us? We have ALL been kept up to speed w/ her diligence.

From reading all her pieces and the information provided, YOU have been screwn by YOUR state party and YOUR elected state representatives. THEY broke the rules and they KNEW they were breaking the rules.

I suspect the dlc was behind this seeing as how nelson was their front & center water boy. They have been most unhappy w/ Dean's success as DNC Chair. They probably thought this would bring Dean down...there would be such an outcry. Mad has kept us all informed and it is much appreciated by those of us concerned about the survival of the DNC.

'...Some of you in the DNC sees us as barbarians at the gate. Some of us see ourselves as the cavalry. The truth is what we are fresh horses.'

Miles Kurland

a Dean supporter from Sonoma County. At a DNC candidate forum in Sacramento in 2005, Miles gave a short, passionate speech to DNC members, defining for many the spirit of the movement that helped Dean become the new Chair. In a moment captured by Daily Kos blogger Markos Moulitsas in "Crashing the Gate," his book on the emergence of people-powered politics, Miles is quoted as saying:


(got the author w/ a little explanation)

[Cha]

37. You should read madfloridian's

Journal account of the whole history of this..when people like bill nelson wanted to change the rules and whose Arrogance cost Florida's voters from counting.

She wasn't accusing Floridians of arrogance..only the party officials who wanted to show how much power they could wield.

[seabeyond]

58. no on anywhere said it was your arrogance as you are well aware. n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

13. You've been out in front and consistently decent about this debacle

Sorry you've had to take the abuse you've endured, and it's just sad that so many people have so few morals or ethics. There shouldn't be any question that such a stunt was flagrantly selfish and childish to a ridiculous degree. Carping the screed of the wronged, a majority puffed up so mightily with bilious self-righteousness that any sense of responsibility and communal fairness was trampled like a blade of grass in a vintage Merrill-Lynch commercial.

This act, seen by its perpetrators as an underdog's valiant stand against "the man", was actually a "fuck you" to virtually every other state, and to the less-financed candidates whose careful strategies were then threatened. Civilization is based upon regulation and rules, and there are ways to either opt out of organizations that don't suit one or to influence their policies. This was not done.

Dismaying as the act itself was, the sympathies voiced by others in support were just plain nauseating.

Thanks for standing up for something on principle.

[madfloridian]

16. Right. It told the other states they did not matter.

Remember the buttons they wore at convention. Says it all.



Yes, that is a screw behind Dean's name.

[PurityOfEssence]

29. Dean has been a champ on this issue.

In fact, he's been a good Chairman all around. His no-nonsense take on this was precisely what was needed, and the way he asked the Judge for a summary judgement was fabulous. I wish I could have seen that one; it was a fine moment for justice in this country.

Hell of a weird season, isn't it?

All in all, it's probably a good thing for the long run: some version of a rotating-state system will probably be put in place, and no puerile little would-be insurrections like this will flare up because their instigators will have the memory of having a bluff called seared into their minds.

It's all very interesting to think what could have happened; I especially wonder just how Edwards would have fared in Michigan...

[spoony]

39. Bull. They challenged the privileged states and were smacked for it

Same with Michigan. You can post a thousand more threads (and doubtless you will) blaming locals for the arrogance of wanting their votes heard but it will never, ever make it right. Fuck Dean.

[madfloridian]

47. Yes, I will post more threads on it. You can count on it.

.

[HooptieWagon]

22. The FDP is primarily DLC types

They were trying to back Dean into a corner, and force his replacement. The FDP doesn't care about the votes, we're just pawns in their ego-driven power play. Its time to break that cabal up.

[madfloridian]

24. One of the first and strongest DLC states.

[Political Heretic]

18. MF I look to you as one of the few sane voices on this subject - thank you for your updates!

Big thanks

[HooptieWagon]

23. yes, madfloridian has been on top if this since the beginning

and her accounts are accurate.

[Political Heretic]

20. Oh and a question: do you see any compromise solution being realistic?

Anyway to try and get FL some sort of a voice in some relatively fair way? Another primary? Splitting delegates? Just seating them anyway? Anything? What do you think?

[madfloridian]

21. If they could get hotel rooms, they might be seated....but not counted

toward the nominee until the nominee is chosen. I think the DNC is not going to back down. But then who knows what the Supreme Court will do.

[HooptieWagon]

25. My thoughts

Florida was offered the opportunity to re-vote or caucus by the DNC. Law prohibits a re-vote, and the FDP refuses to caucus (I presume b/c it would favor Obama). Since the candidates weren't permitted to campaign, it doesn't seem fair to award delegates based on a bogus "election". Splitting the pledged delegates 50-50 seems to be the most reasonable solution, if they have to be seated. The FL superdelegates shouldn't be seated at all, they're among the ones that caused this. Fuck-em, I say.

[madfloridian]

26. I agree about the superdelegates from Florida.

They tried it already.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[smiley_glad_hands]

27. K & R.

Now bring on the dean haters.

[ShaneGR]

28. My vote didnt count....

And no matter what you say, on either side, my vote still didn't count. To be honest, I'm annoyed at the entire party for letting my vote not count. This is fucking Florida, good job DNC on making us feel even more worthless down here.

[WVRevy]

40. IT WASN'T THE PARTY!!!

Your own dumbass politicians - and, by extension ANYONE in Florida that didn't burn up the phone lines in the state house about this before the vote - caused your vote not to matter. Sorry, but the party is allowed to set its own rules, and not voting before February 5th was one of them. You broke them, so you have to pay the penalty, which means not getting a say in who the party's nominee is going to be.

And frankly, if a bunch of idiots want to vote Repug in November to "punish" the party...then so be it. Personally, I think it's more likely that Dems will still come out to support Dems, and that'll be that. I'm not about to consider Florida and Michigan automatically "red" states in the fall over this, and I don't think anybody else in the party is either.

[madfloridian]

30. What's a Plan B?

I noticed this today from the person who is going to take the case to seat the delegates to Supreme Court, and from the state Democratic party spokesman.

Democratic consultant Victor DiMaio of Tampa, who is suing the national and state Democratic parties over the delegate matter, went to the caucus to support his friend Cathy Bartolotti, who won a slot as a Clinton delegate. He said he prays every day that he'll win the suit so the state's Democrats will have an outlet for their enthusiasm this election.

"It's so disheartening that we have all this pent-up energy," DiMaio said.

At the teachers union headquarters in Largo, candidates for delegates ushered in friends and family members to vote for them, and passed out cookies, brownies, pamphlets and anti-Bush stickers. Some voters were oblivious to the fact that the DNC considered Saturday's elections invalid, while others channeled Scarlett O'Hara when confronted with the possibility they might be elected as a delegate and still not get to participate in the convention. "I'll worry about that tomorrow," said Kathryn Larkin, a Seminole real estate agent running to be a delegate for Clinton.

The state Democratic Party will ask the nominee to seat the delegates as elected Saturday, but spokesman Mark Bubriski acknowledged a Plan B may ultimately be necessary.

"This is out of our hands right now," Bubriski said. "If the nomination isn't wrapped up, it would likely require an agreement between the candidates to hold another election here."

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/02/State/Dems_select_del...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. The irony is that MI/FL would have had the influence had they held pat.

Funny. Not funny ha-ha, just funny.

[ellisonz]

50. It's like they hit on 17 when the house had 16 and busted.

Stupid, just stupid.

[Cha]

36. I'm so happy, Talbot D'Alemberte,

wrote this in the Tampa Tribune! Maybe now some more Floridians and other states will get some prospective on this tragic move by the power grabbers.

[madfloridian]

53. I hope so, too, zidzi.

I am amazed at how many won't see the whole dangerous picture of a party with no rules.

[Dr.Phool]

38. Finally, another voice in the wilderness,

And this time in a newspaper. The Tampa Trib, yet.

I just saw another post, that said Charlie Crist is considering having another primary, or caucus, and footing the bill. And they said Howard Dean was willing to go along with it.

Sounds fair to me. But Bill Nelson and Karen Thurman probably have other ideas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[madfloridian]

43. Like Dean said also today...it's not Crist's call but he will listen.

The Marco Rubio wing of the GOP ain't about to allow it.

[madfloridian]

41. The devil is forcing me to do this.

This is the state senator likely referred to in the first quote above. He is Steve Geller, state senate leader. He is contemptuous of the national party and Dean.

Here is the picture of him at the state Democratic convention:



The button he is wearing says Size DOES Matter. Very classy, huh?

Here is a close-up of the button.



Note there is one there with a picture of a screw behind Dean's name. Some wore that at the convention as well.

I told you the devil made me do it. Now I feel better.

[Coexist]

42. knr

happily

[GeorgeGist]

44. Easy solution

Fla should ignore the DNC and put Clinton as the Democratic candidate on their ballot. That might shakeinfluence the election a bit; and humble the DNC a tad.

[TheDoorbellRang]

48. Maybe the Florida Democratic Party officials should join the Lieberman Party

That would be even easier.

[psychmommy]

45. hey madfloridian

the tables are turning. people are starting to pay attention. you have been way out on the forefront with this. keep going baby folks are listening!!!!!

[madfloridian]

51. Thanks, but there is still that lawsuit hanging over our heads...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

It really angers me.

Thanks for the comment.

[krkaufman]

46. I regret that I have but one rec to give for madfloridian. n/t

[Debi]

52. Somebody's listening mad n/t

[madfloridian]

54. This is the "let the big states decide the election" strategy.

The size matters button said it all. Florida and other big states will fight to be most important.

Now I see supporters for Hillary bragging how she is winning the big states.

It is another instance of going against the party plan to let all the states count.

[ThatBozGuy]

55. ..

..

[Andromeda]

56. Lol, that's rich

More of your propaganda and you call it "truth."

It's not the truth; it's a distortion and you do it deliberately to obfuscate and confuse the issues. You say nothing about the people in your pathetic tirades. Why not? Aren't people important?

Anybody with an ounce of intelligence would see this situation for what it really is: disenfranchisement of Florida voters.

I'm tired and I don't really want to bother with you anymore because you're rigid and intractable and put everything in black and white terms.

There are plenty of grey areas in this unfortunate situation and it's really sad that you don't have the capacity to see that.

[madfloridian]

59. Only Hillary folks use the word "disenfranchisement"

They want to break the rules.

[madfloridian]

57. Kick because people are just spouting nonsense again.