Lawsuit over Florida delegates will be appealed to Supreme Court if needed.

[madfloridian]

Just what we need. It will be heard in an Atlanta appellate court on March 17.

Apparently the suit will be continue to be appealed. It was what the Tampa activist who filed it said at the time...it was just the first bite of the apple...the first step.

From October:

First inning..first bite of the apple

In response, DiMaio said he and his lawyer are working on an appeal, which they plan to file with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta.

"I am obviously disappointed for the millions of Democratic voters here in Florida," DiMaio said. "But this is only the first inning and first bite of the apple."

The latest posts about the appeal make it clear that Victor DiMaio and his lawyer, Michael Steinberg, will continue the process to the Supreme Court if necessary. There is already a precedent in favor of the DNC.

This saddens me. It means the Florida Democrats are willing to take this all the way and let the courts decide not just the primary, but the election. Michael Steinberg is chairman of the Hillsborough County DEC.

DiMaio v DNC Lawsuit Granted New Hearing...says it may determine next president.

Tampa Attorney Michael Steinberg filed the lawsuit in August 2007 on behalf of Victor DiMaio against the Democratic National Committee (DNC) over its decision to strip Florida of all its 200 plus delegates to the Democratic National Nominating Convention that convenes this August 2008 in Denver, Colorado.

"We have been impatiently waiting for the Appeals Court to grant us this hearing considering the fact that time is running out if we have to appeal our case to the United States Supreme Court if the Florida Delegation is still shut out of the convention in August at the same time the Supreme Court takes its annual recess" according to Mr. DiMaio. "We are grateful to the Atlanta Justices for granting us the best option of of the three options available. The Court could have denied our appeal and dismissed our case or they could have asked us to mail in our pleadings. Instead they have granted us the opportunity to present oral arguments and the Court has cleared their docket for an entire afternoon, an option that was denied to us at the Tampa District Court. Considering the closeness of the Presidential Election at this point, every delegate vote could make a difference in deciding who the next President could be.

"Our lawsuit was filed long ago when there were many more candidates running for President" says Mr. DiMaio. "I believe it would be a travesty if the millions of Florida voters who went to the polls on January 29, more voters than Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina combined, and voted for their choice for President, would not have their votes count. This Saturday, March 1, Democrats all over Florida in 25 Congressional Districts will begin the process of running for and electing delegates to the Democratic National Convention based on the results of Florida's January 29 Presidential Preference Primary Election. Florida is the fourth largest state in the nation and we deserve to have our votes count and have a voice in deciding who the next President of the United States should be".

Attorney Michael Steinberg added, "We are asking the court to make a determination as to weather the DNC has the right to take action as they did. There are historical precedents and rulings by the US Supreme Court on both sides of the issue. We are pleading to the Court that the 14th Amendment to our Constitution, our "Equal Protection" amendment, prohibits "the state" from treating one citizen or group of citizens differently from another. We hope that the Court will rule favorably on our case to the benefit of the currently disenfranchised voters of Florida"

Doesn't that indicate they are trying to turn this into a racial issue? Bill Nelson tried that and lost.

I remember one of the buttons at the Florida Democratic convention. It says Size Matters. I say to Florida that when two states break the rules that were set up to stop leapfrogging so far ahead...that other states matter equally.



Then the Hillary campaign tried to use it when they said the DNC rules were not their rules. From the link above, words from her campaign.

The rules the party has put in place to choose its nominee are not the rules of the Clinton campaign and, just like the Obama campaign, we are doing what we can under those rules to secure the requisite number of delegates for the nomination. One way to avoid the situation described above is to figure out some way to honor the votes of Michigan and Florida, where there was record turnout. Counting the delegates in Florida and Michigan is a civil rights issue, and a solution needs to be figured out before the convention.

People tell me oh don't worry, this will be over on March 4. They say the delegate count will be definitive.

I say wait a minute. There is still this lawsuit that will be heard on March 17. And there are still the words of Victor DiMaio and his lawyer, Michael Steinberg...that it is just the first inning, just the first bite of the apple, and that they will carry it on to the Supreme Court by August. They can not even decide in these various lawsuits whether it is a racial issue or an issue of size. In reality it is an issue of rules broken deliberately and then blame shifted.

I say this is a shadow over the nomination.

[gateley]

1. Who's running the show, here?

The DNC made the determination, can't it step in an call for another primary to be fair to all the voters? If not, stick by the rules everyone agreed to.

Why is all this crap being allowed to happen?

[madfloridian]

3. Okay, you want Dean to say stop the lawsuits? How about that?

I bet that would go over like a lead balloon.

[Debi]

32. Mad - Gately isn't being a smartass

just not everybody has paid as close attention as you and a few other loyalists (you know that b/c so many 'newbies' have defended FDP leaders in this bullshit).

[madfloridian]

37. I know, read below. We made up.

I think.

[Debi]

39. Whew!

[madfloridian]

6. Did you not know the DNC won two lawsuits already? Read my journal.

I post stuff, then nobody reads cause nobody cares enough to read it.

For you to say the DNC could just tell the courts to stop is beyond comprehension. But then a lot of DU is like that lately.

[gateley]

19. Well thanks for the put down -

I'm so ashamed that you find my statement "beyond comprehension".

I've posted several threads regarding Pakistan, the veterans dilemmas, the economy, poverty and more. But I'm sure you know that because apparently you care enough to read all the important stuff, and if I go back and look, I've no doubt you've responded several times. I doubt if I ever would diss your opinion, though.

[madfloridian]

23. How could you think Dean could stop lawsuits?

Yes, I have read much of what you post. And you do good work.

But you really caught me off guard here. I have seen Dean blamed for a lot of things, but never for not being able to stop a lawsuit.

[gateley]

27. Because I haven't been paying that close attention -- really.

I kind of thought (and I know what assume means) that it would work itself out -- that some "understanding" could be agreed to.

The reason I thought the DNC could step in is because that's who made the decision about not counting the delegates. I honestly thought that
they/it could say -- okay, look -- we find we need the delegate count now (or whatever) and in order for it to be fair to all, we'll hold another primary.

Naive, no doubt.

But I'll tell you one thing, I'm going to look into what's going on now. I AM ashamed to admit I wasn't aware of the lawsuits.

Next time, maybe I'll know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: Okay, I'm back. Now that I actually READ your posts I have a better understanding of what's going on. My general sense of it thus far has been that since they were told the delegates wouldn't count (after FL was warned not to move up its date), they shouldn't count. They both knew that going in, right?

On the other hand, I DO feel for those who made the effort to vote regardless, and understand why those that didn't may have felt it was pointless.

So I guess I'm still at the point of a re-do, but since the Senator said 'no', then they should let it stand as is.

I also understand your anger and frustration at the lawsuits - and what the resulting turmoil might be.

In a perfect world, what IDEALLY would you like to see happen?

Thanks for the education, even though it took me long enough to open my eyes.

[madfloridian]

28. Thanks for the nice reply.

I am pretty passionate about it. I don't think people see the danger in letting this go on.

[gateley]

47. Well I do NOW --

and that's honestly because of your response to me.

And I apologize for being snarky -- I've been in MOOD for days, and I hate it when I'm like that. You didn't need to be the butt of my dark cloud...

[madfloridian]

49. Well, I am always snarky about this topic.

Some of the Dems here have shunned us for speaking up about this.

[Debi]

31. g - go read mad's journal - been on top of this from the beginning

when many were ignoring the problem. I remember posting about it in the Iowa Forum and being dismissed by all but the hard-core supporters.

The Florida voters were duped and screwed by the party leaders. And now all of us are going to pay for it.

[gateley]

48. Will do -

I've already learned a lot just from what she excerpted here.

And hi! I always love seeing you!

[superkia]

62. You are right, if anything...make it a do over so its fair for all.NT

[SoonerPride]

2. This just in: HRC demands "do overs" in every state!

She'll win them all eventually, it just might take 4 or 5 votes to get teh results she wants.

Do over!
Do over!
Do over!

[rodeodance]

4. The people should be enfranchized. simple as that.

[madfloridian]

5. Let the Supreme Court decide.

Right?

[rodeodance]

7. i would rather the party-DNC get their act together before it gets that far.

[madfloridian]

8. If Hillary wins by a lawsuit.....there will be hell to pay.

It won't matter what you think. It won't matter what her supporters think.

If that happens, we will lose in November.

[Sgent]

18. Agree

hold another primary (or caucus) and let the people decide in a fair contest -- according to party rules.

[madfloridian]

20. Bill Nelson says no revote. SO...back to the Supreme Court.

Let Hillary win by a Supreme Court nod.

AH....the pure irony.

[madfloridian]

9. The worst part is that this very day FL Dems still shift blame....

Today:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?con...

"The state party wants to be prepared in case it succeeds in efforts to have delegates seated when the convention begins this August in Denver. The Democratic National Committee stripped the state of its delegates because it violated party rules by holding its primary before Feb. 5.

"We said from the beginning that we're going to move ahead with our plan because we were forced into this election date. We're trying to comply with the rules," said state party spokesman Mark Bubriski. "We remain confident that our delegates will be seated and we plan to appeal to the nominee or the credentials committee to seat our delegates."

No, Mark. You speak with forked tongue. The Florida Democrats were not forced into anything.

Here is what you said in March 2006 when you agreed with Mark Rubio, the GOP Florida House speaker.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nobody realized it, but the storm began gathering in late March 2006. New Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio, a Miami Republican, visited Washington-based Florida reporters and touted a plan to boost Florida's influence in picking presidential nominees by moving the primary earlier than March.

"With all due respect to New Hampshire and Iowa, nowhere are you going to be on a national stage like Florida," Rubio said at the time. "You're going to get questions about Israel, Latin America, immigration. It's the old South, it's Latin, it's Midwestern, it's rural and urban."

Rubio already had Democrats on board.

"Florida Democrats are all for it," Mark Bubriski, spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said at the time.

They shifted the blame to Dean and the DNC, to the GOP, to everyone but themselves. It is unconscionable how this has been handled.

[stop the bleeding]

12. good research

[madfloridian]

26. Thanks.

This has upset me so much.

[boston bean]

10. Thank god, I would have to seriously consider leaving the Dem party

if these votes are not counted. (it works both ways you know)

Who the fuck do people think they are that 1.7 million votes cast in a primary, where everything was equal, do not count.

As a matter of fact, it would leave such a disgusting taste in my mouth, I would probably have to take it out on whichever party in this tries to have these votes disenfranchised.


Add to that the disenfranchisement of Hillary's delegates. How or why should Obama benefit from this. It is unfair to Hillary.

The only fair thing to do is seat those delegates.

[madfloridian]

13. Yes, thank God and the Supreme Court.

Let Hillary win that way and hell to pay.

[WilyWondr]

16. Q:"Who the fuck do people think they are"

A: The representatives of the people of Florida.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature

[madfloridian]

17. They voted 115 to 1 to move the primary. Then they blamed Dean.

Then they sued him.

From instigator to victim. It was a Democrat who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[boston bean]

30. those voters, voted on nothing except Hillary and O. stop blaming them. nt

[madfloridian]

34. I guess we let the Supreme Court decide again.

You don't want to blame the ones who voted for it or the ones who worked with the GOP...so will it be Clinton v Obama? Or what will it be called.

Yes, I am bitter that people can not see the consequences.

[boston bean]

42. I am bitter too, mad. You cannot leave out almost 2M voters and call it fair. sorry. nt

[madfloridian]

43. Then let the Supreme Court decide...

Let's take the power out of the party's hands and give it to the courts.

A dangerous thing to do.

Were you mad when Terry McAuliffe told MI they would not get near Boston if they moved up their primary in 04?

Just wondering.

[yourguide]

60. And you cant have an election

without allowing the candidates to campaign. No campaigning means based on name recognition alone one candidate got the nod.

[iamjoy]

45. I May Leave Too

If this issue is not resolved amicably, I would consider leaving the party.

Oh, let's not play the blame game, I think there is plenty to go around and to me it doesn't matter. If there are powerful and influential elements of my own party that have so little regard for my vote as to not count it, they don't deserve my support.

However, I believe some manner of compromise will be reached. I do not believe a re-vote would be practical. Neither do I believe it would be fair to seat all of our delegates as if we never broke the rules. The best solution would be to welcome our delegation as non-voting guests. The second best solution would be to credential our delegates at 50% power.

[Exilednight]

11. Did Bush v Gore teach us anything? Florida+election+supreme court= America screwed

[madfloridian]

21. To Hillary supporters it is ok. They do not see the danger.

And that scares the hell out of me.

[madfloridian]

14. I see the tough guys, hard liners....lining up to say yahoo.

I knew you would do that. But you need to think about this issue closely.

You need to think about what Florida did, why they did it, and why they blamed the DNC and Dean for what they did.

Think about how it would feel to have this happen, if the Supreme Court took this case and ruled.

Think about it.

[Thurston Howell III]

15. They would say Dean is in "cahoots" with the RNC! LOL.

Too bad the FDP didn't fight as hard during the 2000 and 2004 elections. Oh I forgot, they only screw their own!

[sandnsea]

22. If she steals the primary, she'll lose the GE

I will not vote for her and I can guarantee large portions of the black community won't either. I do not understand how they think this is going to help anything.

[madfloridian]

24. I really did not think these two guys would carry it this far.

I thought that someone here with a cooler head would say, enough is enough. But apparently not.

You are right. It will kill us in the general.

[Omega3]

51. the black community needs to wake up and realize that it was the democratic party that fought for

them in the 60's during Civil rights, lost many of their southern support over it and has fought for them ever since. Who do they think is going to help them ? the repukes?

the dem party is screwed either way, either he's the nominee and doesn't win or she gets it and they feel disenfranchised and then don't vote. this will have long term consequences.

[stillcool]

25. this makes me sick..

My God. Another Bush v Gore, via the Clinton Campaign. I wonder is James Baker III will be getting on board.

[madfloridian]

29. TV anchor weighs in: "Florida Delivers the Nomination to Hillary Clinton"

This was late January before we heard about the appeal being heard. Curiouser and curiouser.

"That headline could come to pass following a not-so unlikely scenario. It's late April and Barack Obama has narrowly edged out Hillary Clinton in the delegate count. It's so close that, had Florida's delegates been counted, Hillary would be ahead. Do you think Hillary Clinton (a lawyer) and her backers would hesitate for a New York minute to take legal action to get back on top?

Flash to: Victor Dimaio, Tampa political consultant and Michael Steinberg, Hillsborough County's new party chairman. These two brought the first lawsuit against the DNC to get Florida's delegates re-instated. The lawsuit was thrown out early on, but they didn't have the Clinton legal team behind them. DiMaio and others have not given up on a legal challenge. And as Steinberg suggested to me this week, if Florida's delegates are all that stand between Hillary and the nomination, she'll probably get awfully chummy with people like Victor Dimaio. What an irony. The state that Democrats studiously ignored up until the very day of the primary could be the state that actually chooses the nominee. And you thought your vote didn't count."

http://community.abcactionnews.com/blogs/flashpoint/arc...

They are by their own words expecting Hillary to back them. Maybe she did?

[Debi]

33. This is so messed up

[madfloridian]

35. Some would rather I not call attention to it.....but it is a dangerous situation.

[Debi]

40. I fear the 2012/16 primary season

it's gonna be a mess!

[crispini]

41. .

Make it stooooooooooop!

[madfloridian]

44. Heh Heh.

I can agree with that.

[KittyWampus]

36. I don't get what standing the two plaintiffs have. The Democratic Party is a private entity

how in the world do two Floridians have the right to challenge a private organization over its rules and how they are enforced.

[madfloridian]

38. My thought..depends on who is behind them.

It takes money to take a suit that far. Depends.

[madfloridian]

50. In fact, I do really wonder about the money and power..

behind this push all the way to the Supreme Court. There have been two lawsuits agsinst the DNC, plus one against the state. This is going to appeal, the others were unsuccessful.

I guess the new attitude is that the DNC is no longer the body that controls the running of the primaries and elections. Think about it. Who does have the power then?

[madfloridian]

46. From First Read..MSNBC

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/29/71555...

*** Nevada redux? The Texas papers are reporting today that the Clinton campaign is apparently raising the specter of a lawsuit to challenge the Dem-sanctioned caucuses in the state that will occur on top of the regular primary voting. The motivation here by the Clinton camp is to discount the delegates Obama potentially wins during the caucus portion. Obviously, they are worried that narrow victories in Ohio and Texas will get overshadowed if Obama ends up with more delegates for the night, which is very possible because of his likely landslide win in Vermont and the caucus portion of the Texas prima-caucus. Is the state’s delegate-selection process screwy? Definitely. But how does Team Clinton overturn a process that had been approved for quite some time? This would be the third time -- the Nevada caucus sites on the Vegas strip, and Michigan/Florida being the others -- that the campaign has questioned rules that had already been established."

[davidpdx]

52. This elections is going to be remembered for one thing....

lawsuits. Which spells trouble for Democrats. The Clinton campaign has threatened lawsuits in Texas as well.

madfloridian, good journal and nice that someone is staying on top of this and letting people know what's going on.

Hopefully all of this will be in vain come Tuesday.

[madfloridian]

53. Thanks and welcome to DU

I am probably too involved with this, but I just hate the injustice about how they all voted for it and then placed the blame elsewhere.

I said a long time ago here that I had no gripe with Hillary, just the folks around here..like Penn and Wolfson. I meant that. I don't think either candidate is perfect...or especially liberal. But once she started after FL delegates that is when I supported Obama.

[liberal_rxstudent]

54. Grrrr...

I am glad to see you speaking up about this. It pisses me off that Hillary is willing to do this. Seriously, I am dumbfounded. I knew when I went in to vote on Jan. 29 that my vote for democratic nominee would not have any weight. Yes...I was upset- but not at Dean or anyone besides our own leaders here. Yes...those people who we elected into office. I had other reasons to vote, but I just accepted that our leaders let us down. I just sat perplexed at the fact that the DNC stuck to their guns (i.e. not giving in) and the RNC allowed delegates to be gained. This in itself tells a story to me...that the RNC does not hold their own to high standards such as abiding by the rules. Thanks for your insight and I am afraid that if this goes on, there will be a huge price to pay.

[madfloridian]

55. I hope first of all that her campaign is NOT behind this effort....

and I hope secondly that some cooler heads will prevail here in Florida. It really worried me because I think it will be more of an effect than some think if it is hanging over the nomination. Thanks for the nice post.

[liberal_rxstudent]

58. I don't think

that it is necessarily only Clinton doing this (I "voted" for her in Jan.), but she is surely pushing for this to be dragged out. I know...Florida is too big and too important to not count...but what our STATE leaders did was wrong. (In my eyes, one in the same with creepy Rubio- they all should be held accountable. Believe me, I have sent dozens of e-mails and hand written letters to the honorable Bill Nelson et. al.) I agree that this is an issue that will be looming over our party and will have finite consequences come November. My hope is that we will resolve this quickly and fairly. Until then, we dems must keep focused on being united. That is the only way we can win back the white house. **Thank YOU for bringing this issue to the notice of so many others!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

59. you think Hillary will "denounce and reject" this effort to destroy DNC?

of course she is behind this.

[ooglymoogly]

56. you can bet, if this gets to the supreme court , the main factor will

be how the final judgment helps or damages GOP chances in the general. We now live under a banana republic SCOTUS.

[madfloridian]

57. Very good point.

by a vote of 5 to 4...whatever is good for the GOP

[madfloridian]

61. The guy who filed this lawsuit says NO to a revote. He sure is getting attention now.

"We had the election, it's over. I'm sure the New England patriots want a do over, but we're not doing a do over, the Democratic party doesn't have the money," DiMaio says"

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?co...

All the way to the newly formed Bush Supreme Court.

[madfloridian]

63. Just a reminder that the lawsuit will continue....casting a shadow.

.