McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out

[jefferson_dem]

McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out
By CARL HULSE

WASHINGTON — The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

Mr. McCain’s likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a “natural-born citizen” can hold the nation’s highest office.

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

Mr. McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a Navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that Mr. McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.

But given mounting interest, the campaign recently asked Theodore B. Olson, a former solicitor general now advising Mr. McCain, to prepare a detailed legal analysis. “I don’t have much doubt about it,” said Mr. Olson, who added, though, that he still needed to finish his research.

<SNIP>

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&pagewanted=print

[Johnny__Motown]

1. it was a U.S territory, thus U.S. soil. plus a military base is also U.S. soil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone

[Pab Sungenis]

3. Agreed. Besides, the Supremes would look the other way anyhow.

They gave Texas' electoral votes to * and Cheney in 2000, even though both were residents of Texas and thus ineligible to both get the votes.

[Johnny__Motown]

9. I extended this line of thought, if he is not eligible to run then he must not be

American by birth. So, where is his green card?

Is John McCain an Illegal Immigrant from Central America? Come on, this is a B.S. story and the NYT is insane to even suggest this.

[dkf]

26. He is a citizen by law, not by birth.

At one time, being born to an American woman who lived abroad did not give kids citizenship, unlike fathers. That law was later changed.

I've been reading up on this subject and it is actually more complicated than it seems at first glance.

Suffice it to say, if it were settled, there would be no controversy about this, but instead it pops up every time a person not born on American soil runs for the Presidency, i.e. Romney's dad.

[AZ Criminal JD]

33. Supreme Court never gave Texas votes to Bush and Cheney

Where are you getting that from?

[DJ13]

2. I think this is a non-issue

Why does the media insist on keeping McCains name on their front page when he hasnt done anything worthy of it yet?
:eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

4. Goldwater was born in Arizona before it became a state. This issue surfaced then

and it was quickly dropped. McCain's parents are American, so it doesn't matter where he was born.

The issue is what he did after he was born.

[Flabbergasted]

5. I like this talking point. It shoves an utterly trivial "GOPesque" argument in their face.

It's exactly the kind of stuff they make a big deal out of. Like "Hussein".

[razors edge]

6. Doesn't look legal to me.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

From the US State Department website

7 FAM 1116.1-4 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"

(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)

a. A U.S.-registered or documented ship on the high seas or in the exclusive economic zone is not considered to be part of the United States. A child born on such a vessel does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth (Lam Mow v. Nagle, 24 F.2d 316 (9th Cir., 1928)).

b. A U.S.-registered aircraft outside U.S. airspace is not considered to be part of U.S. territory. A child born on such an aircraft outside U.S. airspace does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth.

c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.




No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President -- The Constitution of the United States, Article II Section 1

[Flabbergasted]

7. It's an argument that we'd not want to press but definately discuss.

[SoonerPride]

10. Open and shut case

He's not eligible to be president.

That's the law of the land.

We can amend the Consitution if you prefer, but he isn't eligible.

[razors edge]

11. I believe he may be responsible for

the deaths of 130+ sailors aboard the Forestall, not someone I would amend the constitution for.

[griffi94]

12. wasn't he born on a military base

i thought his father was an admiral. also if his parents are citizens i think that makes him a citizen.

[dkf]

27. If someone in Iraq runs onto a U.S. military base and gives birth, that child

is not a U.S. citizen unless his parents were citizens.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. He's entirely eligible to be President

This argument is just silly.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. Doesn't matter

he had two American parents, thus he's a natural born citizen.

The section you quote is meant to apply to children born of non-citizens on US territory. For instance, say a Korean woman working at a US military installation gave birth on the premesis - her child wouldn't automatically acquire US citizenship.

But McCain is clearly a natural-born citizen. If not, he couldn't even serve the in the Senate, as he's never been naturalized.

[razors edge]

29. I disagree.

As far as his qualification for the US Senate goes...

Qualifications

Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution sets forth three qualifications for senators: each senator must be at least 30 years old, must have been a citizen of the United States for at least the past nine years, and must be (at the time of the election) an inhabitant of the state they seek to represent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate


Here is a very long breakdown of the Panama Canal and naturalization situations with references.

http://muddythoughts.blogspot.com/

Conclusion

That leads us all back to the Constitutional requirements. The citizenship definitions of both Article II and Amendment 14 apply in terms of McCain running for President.

So, tying it all together:
1. The 14th Amendment and matching regulations limit citizenship to natural born and naturalized.
2. John McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to citizen parents.
3. 8 USC 1403(a) declares naturalized citizenship in 1952 on persons born in the Canal Zone to citizen parents.
4. Therefore 8 USC 1403(a) applies to John McCain at age 16.
5. Therefore John McCain is a naturalized citizen.
6. The Canal Zone was not part of the United States.
7. Therefore John McCain was not born in the United States.
8. Therefore John McCain is a citizen not born in the United States.
9. Therefore John McCain is not a natural born citizen.
10. Article II of the Constitution states to be President a person must be a natural born citizen.
11. THEREFORE John McCain is not eligible to be President of the United States under Article II of the Constitution.
12. THEREFORE John McCain should be disqualified from running for President and should be decertified and removed from all present and future Presidential ballots, and his past results should be disallowed.

[caligirl]

8. I was born in this circumstance, Germany of military parents and I really hope its a non issue, for

military brats everywhere. We already feel like we have no hometowns, I use to move my furniture every year and always wanted to move about every 3 years. I still never get attached to a community.

[ab hollow]

13. Yes!

I feel exactly the same way... I was born stateside, but still have that same "itch". I was a military brat and served in the military myself, hoping it would "cure" me. The one good thing about it is that I adjust quickly to new/different situations. The longest I've lived in one place is 5 years. It's interesting to try to relate to people who've lived in one place their whole life.

[caligirl]

15. Or trying to do a job application, three elementary schools two jr highs

one high school, my sisters had that but two high schools. People didn't understand. I married a marine pilot. I already knew how to pack, what to pack and what not to. I knew how to clear housing inspections(pay a cleaner so they can pay the inspector off.)Welcome to du, lots of different types of folks stressed to the max right now over their candidates. it wasn't like this four years ago. we were a team here helping each other and supporting each other. That's gone out the window.

[Capn Sunshine]

34. actually cali

the only thing that changed was the invasion. The "core" of DU is the same. Some support Hillary, some don't, and I respect them, it's the 44s that changed the tone of this place, and they will be gone soon enough.

[powergirl]

14. Wasn't JFK born in Germany?

n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

19. No

he was born in Massachusetts.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

28. Nope

John F Kennedy was born in Brookline Massachusetts and John F Kerry was born near Denver Colorado. Kerry spent some of his youth in Germany though

[dkf]

16. He is a citizen but may not be a "natural born citizen"

Scholars are not sure what the interpretation is because a court has never ruled on the matter.

Congress has tried to legislate a meaning, but congress' laws don't necessary hold up.

As John McCain was born in Panama, he acquired Panamanian citizenship at birth.

I think a relevant question is, if and when he renounced that citizenship. If he didn't relinquish it, I think he might have dual citizenships.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. There's only two kinds of citizenship:

natural born or naturalized. McCain was never naturalized, as there was no need to be. He's a natural-born citizen.

[Solon]

32. Actually, there is more than that...

There are U.S. nationals, but they are restricted in not being able to vote in federal elections, and are usually born in unincorporated territories of the United States. There is no naturalization process for them, if they move to one of the 50 states in the United States(travel isn't restricted), they are considered full citizens. The question is if a U.S. National is a natural born citizen or not, I'm thinking they are.

[CreekDog]

20. He's eligible

No Person except a natural born Citizen, OR A CITIZEN AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION OF THIS CONSTITUTION, shall be eligible to the Office of President -- The Constitution of the United States, Article II Section 1

[BzaDem]

22. Hahaha n/t

[Johnny__Motown]

23. ROFLMAO, good one

[alphafemale]

24. Stop This. He is absolutely a "natural born citizen." Here's the "Slam Dunk"

Title 8 of the U.S. Code Section 1401
"Citizens of the United States at Birth"


The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

snip



http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

[dkf]

25. This is by code or law, but not defined by the constitution.

[Solon]

30. If not defined by the Constition, which, to be honest, it wasn't...

means that Congress can define it. The 14th Amendment just says that all people born in the United States is a citizen. It doesn't say they are a natural born citizen, that's defined by Congress. Anyone born on U.S. Territory is defined as a natural born citizen according to Congress. There is nothing in the Constitution that restricts citizenship in this manner, and United States is defined as the 50 states PLUS territories.

[AZ Criminal JD]

38. It is not defined by the Constitution because the Constitution gave that job to Congress.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 says the one of the duties of Congress is "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization..." They first did it in 1790 right after the Constitution was ratified with the Naturalization Act of 1790. Title 8, Section 1401 of the U.S. Code is just the latest version.

[AZ Criminal JD]

37. McCain falls under (a) not (c)

The Panama Canal was a possession of the U.S. at the time and (c) applies to people born outside of the U.S. and its possessions. The canal was subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. so (a) applies.

[pdxmom]

31. Dang it - every time I see a headline about this story, my brain records

it as "McCain's Birth Canal" and the visual becomes more than I can handle.

[ctaylors6]

36. Me too!! "birth" "canal" "mccain" together -- just ewww!

[Orangepeel]

35. McCain was born a citizen. He wasn't naturalized. He's "natural born"

this isn't an issue.