Anyone who uses the phrase "Hanoi John" to describe Senator McCain is going to get a fight

[Redstone]

from me. No matter how much any of us may dislike Senator McCain now (and I'm among those who dislike him the most), that epithet is below contempt.

No matter what he says or does now, he DID suffer THEN, in ways that you (unless you've been imprisoned by the North Vietnamese), simply cannot imagine. And to make light of the suffering he went through is despicable, politics be damned.

Flame away, and I'll answer you tomorrow. I'm done for this night.

Redstone

[physioex]

1. Too bad.....

He didn't learn anything from the experience. What about the fact he is a staunch supporter of the current criminal administration?

[DemVet]

15. It's a shame...

...you feel this way about one who gave so much to our country while he was wearing the uniform of the United States Navy (of which I am a proud veteran).

[lastliberalintexas]

27. I don't think that poster was atacking his service

S/he was simply pointing out that of all the candidates, you would expect the one who has actually been tortured to agree that torture has no place in a civilzed country or its policies. McCain supports doing to "the terrorists" the very things which were done to him. Very sad.


Saying that does not detract from his service at all. McCain served well and by all accounts honorably. His politics since then are another story.

[Olney Blue]

2. Where did that phrase come from, and what does it mean?

"Hanoi John"

[JackBeck]

5. If I were render a guess

It's probably a play on "Hanoi Jane", hence the implication that both were traitors to this country.

[Yael]

8. Hanoi Jane was Jane Fonda's nickname for supporting the Viet Cong

The Hanoi Hilton was the name given by the vets to the POW camp in N. Vietnam where McCain was held. He stayed an extra 5 years because he wouldn't leave without his men -- and due to the torture, can't reise his arms over his head.

He is not fit or suited to be president, but his service should be honored.

[LittleClarkie]

11. It's also what they called Kerry. So it's a sore spot with me

Why would people even be using it.

[Yael]

13. Because people in general are assholes.

At the CNPHOCPS (or whatever that "Conservative meeting" was where Romney quit, they were selling "I would rather be waterboarded than vote for John McCain" T-shirts.

Go figure.

[Tresalisa]

34. I was told that McCain had the chance to be released because of who his dad was.

He turned it down, because there were Americans with him who had been there longer. I also don't think he should be the president, but that took guts.

[BlueStater]

3. I agree. And I think McCain is total scum,

But I'm not going to sink to the levels that those assholes did against John Kerry.

[Yael]

9. Thank you. He isn't qualified to be president, but we don't need to sink

to KKKarl Rove's levels to make the case. There is PLENTY out there (eg the Economy, the war) that can do it.

[Yael]

4. Thank you. I prefer to take the high ground myself.

He is a war hero who gave a half-century of service to this country and should be honored as such.

That is NOT a qualification to be the chief executive of this country, however.

[JVS]

20. Agreed.

[Medusa]

6. No flames from me

No one can deny he suffered and suffered horribly at the hands of his captors. I may not agree with a single damned thing he stands for but it's not right to mock his war record just as it was not when John Kerry was our nominee.

[washingdem]

7. Agreed, Redstone.

[LittleClarkie]

10. Kinda weird considering that's Kerry's nickname with the right wing

Why are people even using it for McCain?

I agree though. Why make fun of the man's time as POW? How is that pertinent?

[Yael]

12. The RW are assholes to the core. We need not emulate them while they eat their own.

WIthout a massive gaffe -- November is ours. Stay the course!

[Mooney]

14. Can I still call him a douchebag?

I also saw someone here call him "McTaint" earlier today, and I nearly wet myself laughing.

[JVS]

18. Sure.

[JVS]

16. I agree. Making fun of someone being a POW is beyond fucked up

[sendero]

17. I agree....

.. I don't believe in giving rethugs much quarter, but I'm against smearing anyone's military service, period.

[ctaylors6]

19. Thank you so much for posting this.

[bbinacan]

21. I'm so glad

to hear you say that. And you should not be flamed for this. Anyone who does is an asshole.

[nonconformist]

22. I agree... we should never, ever, stoop to the disgusting depths that they do

I couldn't believe it when they took the honorable service of John Kerry, and Max Cleland, and trashed them through the mud for it.

We're better than that. We don't *have* to stoop that low to win. We can win on the issues.

I hate McCain's politics, but his service to this country was extremely honorable.

[lojasmo]

23. how about 'geriatric cancer patient'? That okay? EOM

Oohh.. how about 'manchurian candidate'?

[sandnsea]

24. I'm right beside you

I think it should be banned from DU.

[crispini]

25. How about just John "Hundred years in Iraq" McCain?

'Cause I think that's a bit better.

[Forkboy]

26. Couldn't agree more.

:thumbsup:

[Guava Jelly]

28. Anyone who trashes his Military service will get a fight from me!

I can respect his service and still not vote for him.

[Cabcere]

29. Right on.

:thumbsup: I disagree with his policies and I don't want him to be president, but I'll be damned if I'll stoop to the level of trashing a veteran, especially one who went through all the shit that McCain did in Vietnam. Well said, Redstone. :patriot:

[TexasObserver]

30. Keating Five? Check. Bush toadie? Check. Nutty as a fruitcake? Check. Never heard Hanoi John.

This thread suggests that (1) John McCain has been called Hanoi John, (2) that it's a problem at DU, and (3) that what some rightwing radio talk show goon says has any bearing on what we say here.

I've never once in the past 30 years heard McCain called Hanoi John. I've never heard anyone but rightwing nuts attack McCain for his time in the Hanoi Hilton. He's a dangerous man, but it's not because he was a POW. It's because he's a few bricks short of a load.

Don't WE have a primary going on?

[LSK]

31. who the hell is saying that???

:shrug:

[Postman]

32. Dropping bombs on children makes him respectable in your mind?

Why don't you ask yourself just what it was that John McCain was doing in his A-4 Skyhawk?

Dropping chocolates?

He's lucky he wasn't killed in that lake he fell in. Maybe it says more about the Vietnamese who rescued him (ie saved his life)

Yeah he suffered. What do you think would have happened to any of the "terrorists" had they survived 9/11 somehow and some New Yorkers had gotten ahold of them?

[democrattotheend]

33. I'm with you

We really need to be careful about even appearing to attack John McCain's military service. He served his country honorably and heroically and we need to acknowledge that.

[On the Road]

35. I Beleive in the Criminality of the Vietnam War

as much as anyone here. But McCain does not deserve to be characterized as a traitor for anything he did as a POW.

And I sure hope to hell no one uses that in the general election, because it will hurt the Dem candidate immeasurably.

[rasputin1952]

36. As a vet...I find "Hanoi John" repulsive... I also find McCain

repulsive, and in my book, he is certainly no "hero", but he went through hell as a POW, and I can empathize w/that, (caveat: I was never a POW).

McCain is bat-shit crazy and a self-serving misanthrope that is beyond understanding, (how can someone possibly support torture, especially after being tortured himself is beyond rational thought), but he served his nation, much more so that bush or any of those in power now, for that, I thank him...but I could never vote for him. In fact, I'll do everything I can to make sure he doesn't get elected, with the exception of stooping down to the RW level of "thought".

What I see is McCain being the GOP sacrificial lamb...his chances of being elected are pitifully small, he's running because he thinks he "deserves" it after supporting the bush regime. Odd how the RW is essentially saying the same thing abut Clinton..."she thinks she deserves it because she stood by Bill"...:eyes:

In any case....I say post what you will about McCain...but there are lines that should not be crossed, the "Hanoi John" crap is one of them.

[tekisui]

37. He supports torture now. All bets are off.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. NOTHING is sacred to me when it comes to the Repubics

They've been spewing every flavor shit ever conceived against everyone on our side, including the CHILDREN.

Yeah ..... McCain was an honorable man in Viet Nam. I get that. Apart form that, he's lower than whale shit.

Just today, he had some fucking asshat implying that Obama is a Muslin sympathizer and was spewing venom all over the place. McLame sez he's sorry while his campaign operatives are cheering and high fiving.

Fuck fair and fuck honorable. Leave that to the candidates. I'm an ANGRY motherfucker and I have no limits when it comes to what I'll say or do against Repubics. Someone has to get down in the mud with them. I'm old and I don't give a fuck. I'll get as dirty as they do.

[backscatter712]

39. Agreed.

There's plenty of ammunition that we can use to debate McCain without stooping to such crap.

[JI7]

40. that's what Republicans call Kerry

i agree with you. do not go after McCain on his service.

[bullwinkle428]

41. "Hanoi John" comes from that absolutely vile low-life fucking piece of shit Ted Sampley

For those unfamiliar with this "charming character" from the right, here's a little overview:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ted_Sampley

"Ted Sampley, a former Green Beret who served two full tours in Vietnam, spotted Kerry and his Secret Service detail at about 9:00 a.m. Monday morning at the Wall. Sampley walked up to Kerry, extended his hand and said, 'Senator, I am Ted Sampley, the head of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, and I am here to escort you away from the Wall because you do not belong here.'

"At that point a Secret Service officer told Sampley to back away from Kerry. Sampley moved about 6 feet away and opened his jacket to reveal a HANOI JOHN T-shirt.

"Kerry then began talking to a group of schoolchildren. Sampley then showed the T-shirt to the children and said, 'Kerry does not belong at the Wall because he betrayed the brave soldiers who fought in Vietnam.'

[tabasco]

42. Well, from me too.

McCain's service was honorable.

His political career has been less than honorable.

[Jamastiene]

43. Sounds reasonable to me.

Fair enough. He's not the person I'd ever want as president, but he DID serve this country. 'Nuff said.