Now that the Obama supporters have shown their soft underbelly,

[Ravy]

how many times will they be poked in the same spot just to watch them scream like their hair was on fire.

My advice to Obama: Stay away from tanks and binoculars. Those are favorites for an embarassing picture.

[displacedtexan]

1. And controled lab suits.

Remember the Kerry photo flap?

Oh, yeah. And No. Windsurfing. Ever.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. My advice to Sen. Clinton: Stay away from microphones and cameras

They make for embarassing soundbites and youtubes.

[Cant trust em]

3. Politicians should be afraid of taking pictures now?

That's what we've come to? How sad.

[BuyingThyme]

4. Yes, racism will tend to piss people off.

But I don't think you'll have time to get around to the tanks.

[Ravy]

5. No more than playing fast and loose with the term "racism" does. nt

[BuyingThyme]

9. Well then, honest DUer. What's the deal with the photo?

Explain that underbelly.

This is your thread, isn't it?

Explain it.

[Ravy]

10. I have no clue what is with the photo, if I was Obama, I would say

"When in Rome..."

or

"My ability to reach across cultural boundaries will allow me to..."

or

"We should not fear embracing and communicating with people of different cultures."

or

"My diverse background will serve us well when I am elected."

or

"Yes, I had that photo taken and I am quite proud of it"


Almost anything would be better than acting like a vampire being sprinkled with Holy Water.

[BuyingThyme]

11. He's said all those things.

Now we're dealing with racism.

Racism is bad.

[Ravy]

14. No we aren't.

We are dealing with feigned indignation. If an Obama supporter had posted that same image on this very board, there would be 100 "Cool Pic!" and "Thanks, K&R" posts on it.

[BuyingThyme]

But that's not happened.

What happened is the Hillary Team decided to play the racism card.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. So do you support spreading the "Obama is a muslim" emails?

[Ravy]

15. Of course not. Do you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. So then what's the difference?

[Ravy]

20. I don't see anything wrong with the picture.

I am suprised that Obama doesn't embrace it. He talks about his diverse background as a plus, but the uproar over this makes him seem ashamed of it.

If the Obama campaign had released this, there would be a hundred kicks and recs to that thread, and I would be one of them. That is a PLUS to Obama.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. So then what's wrong with the e-mails?

They're the same thing, as far as I can see.

[Ravy]

27. They are a lie, for one.

I don't see the picture as a lie. I honestly see the picture as doing what all politicians sometimes do in foreign lands. He certainly doesn't look stupid in it. He looks like a world leader.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Ok, what's #2?

Is a technicality the only issue you take with the e-mails?

[Ravy]

33. You consider a lie a technicality? Nice.

I usually don't go past that in evaluating an argument. So, I don't have a number 2.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. "Lie" implies it's a kind of slur on his character.

Which is why I think you do have a #2.

[Ravy]

37. No, lie implies a falsehood.

That *particular* lie was designed to be a slur. But it doesn't matter. When Obama lies about Hillary, I call him on it. When she lies about him (which I honestly don't see much of, maybe it is because of all the Hillbots I have on Ignore) I call her on it, too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Well there you go.

"That *particular* lie was designed to be a slur."

You just answered your original question.

[Ravy]

42. It is your contention that the picture is a lie?

And to view that picture and say to yourself "Obama is a muslim" you have to have some issues, imho.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. No, but its circulation is designed to be a slur.

Duh.

[BlackVelvet04]

51. Exactly....

but only when it suits him but when he wants to generate outrage then it's a different story.

[C_U_L8R]

6. Poke away and

see what happens.

It certainly isn't helping your candidate.

[Ravy]

7. Edwards is beyond my ability to help at the moment...

...but maybe that will change.

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. ...

:thumbsup:

[BuyingThyme]

12. To Hillary supporters racism is now a "soft underbelly."

Dear Hillary supporters,

Please reconsider.

[EFerrari]

17. No kidding. Things you never thought you'd see on DU. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

18. bingo

[Ravy]

19. First, I am an Edwards supporter. I don't care much for Hillary.

Second, I don't see race attached to this picture. That would be racist, in my view.

I see a man dressed in the native garb of the country he is visiting, as ALL world leaders sometimes do. It elevates him and reminds me of how favorably the world would look if we elected Obama OR Clinton. She has some nice pictures showing her in a foreign style as well.

[Johnny__Motown]

21. this comes in combination with an ongoing e-mail slur campaign calling him Muslim

[Ravy]

30. That is MONTHS old, and the one Clinton VOLUNTEER

known to have passed it along to others (not created it, mind you) was removed from the campaign.

[BuyingThyme]

22. There is nothing wrong with the picture.

It's wrong for Hillary Clinton to use the picture to appeal to racists.

[Ravy]

31. It would be stupid of them to use something that Obama could

easily embrace.

I would bet you that if the picture was posted on a web site, with no text attached, positive comments would outweigh negative comments about it 10 to 1, or more.

Instead, his campaign and supporters are going crazy about it.

I am older, but I didn't think I was *that* out of touch.

[BuyingThyme]

35. They want to change the debate.

That's what they've been trying to do for some time now.

They don't want him to ignore it; they want to use him to provide fodder for racists.

[Ravy]

38. Well, if that *is* the goal. They have succeeded. You have helped. nt

[BuyingThyme]

41. Circular logic award nominee.

[shrub chipper]

26. Aren't you being

a little disingenuous about the purpose of releasing that picture?

I, personally, don't think it will matter much and I'm also sure Mr. Obama will have a calm, reasoned response to it and will, in fact, embrace it.

My outrage is that a Democrat would use those Rovian tactics on another Democrat(and Ms Williams non-denying denial confirms to me that the Clinton Campaign WAS behind publicizing that photo). Democrats can do better than that and Democrats should expect more that that from their candidates.

[Ravy]

36. I have no clue who released it, other than Drudge's word..

which I think is more likely to be misleading than not.

And to get a definite answer from a campaign with thousands of people associated with the campaign in a couple of hours is nonsense. Hillary still gets attacked about the "Muslim email" because a volunteer in Iowa who received it passed it on instead of deleting it.

I think the Obama campaign is handling this very badly. I imagine worse will come, and their overreaction to this is more likely to encourage it. I liked him better when he was teflon.

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. soft underbelly of DU that is. n/t

[Firespirit]

23. Because ignoring right-wing bullshit served us well in the past.

Swift Boat liars. Enough said.

Like it or not, the public does not respect Dems who don't fight smears, even if there is no "there" there, so to speak. The noise machine, of which Drudge is a part, is relentless, and they cannot be allowed to get away with ANYTHING.

[Ravy]

25. I fail to see, how in any stretch of the imagination, that this is a

smear. Because Drudge says so?

I think it is a great pic. He does not look stupid (like Dukakis in the tank, or others with the binocular lens caps on). I don't see anything to be ashamed of in it. It could have been on his website for all I know.

[Firespirit]

32. OH PLEASE

Yeah, Drudge put it up because it's a fine photo of a Democrat that Americans will instantly give its proper context. Because Drudge would never play to subconscious cultural bigotry and insinuate that a Democrat wearing traditional clothing "looks Muslim."

[Occam Bandage]

46. Why, exactly, was Hillary's campaign circulating it, then? In celebration of Black History Month?

[Ravy]

49. Do you know for a fact that they were? Or are you taking

Drudge's word for it.

And why scream like a banshee instead of saying "Drudge has this COOL pic of Obama on his site!!!"

If Clinton's campaign was circulating it, you could just add it to the long list of ineffectual attacks from her campaign, and that would do you a lot more good, in my opinion, that trying to turn it back around on her as being racist.

[Occam Bandage]

52. No. I'm taking her campaign's word for it, given their non-denial response. And if you

look through my posts today, I've been pushing the line that this is yet another horrible miscalculation by a campaign that's circling the drain.

[Ravy]

55. So if they deny it, and it turns out some precinct captain in Rhode Island

sent it out, then you will accuse her of pushing the photo AND lying about it? No thanks.

[Occam Bandage]

56. If they deny it, and there was a precinct captain in RI who sent it out,

then they were lying. Unless they're doing some sort of Bush/Rove e-shredding, their email servers record and store all email traffic. If it happened in their campaign, they know about it and they know about it instantly.

[Ravy]

57. Well, until they check with every precinct captain in every state,

they can't offer you more. And you are foolish for acting otherwise.

[cottonseed]

29. If I supported Hillary, I'd be giggling too.

I logged in this morning and did notice the big flurry of posts on this subject. It looks like it's dying down already.

I'd have to admit that my first reaction was that something fishing was going on. After the other day's histrionics regarding the mailer, I was pretty much expecting something like this. True Rovian politics is feigning outrage in order to lay the groundwork for your own, even filthier smear. It almost seemed like we had something like that here.

As far as the photo goes. If it's out there, it's out there. I hope this can become part of the discussion of "behavior" and "tactics" Hillary was referring to for tomorrow's debate. Better to flesh these things out sooner than later.

The inference as to the sleeping muslim candidate is pretty obvious. However, this can be handled with class simply by discussing it. What I'm more disappointed about is that it's the first picture of him that really makes the guy look like a dork. So, yes, you've got something to hang your hat on there.

[Occam Bandage]

40. Yes. We don't appreciate race-baiting. You got us there.

[Ravy]

44. I just don't see it as race baiting.

I can see that some do. We will just have to agree to disagree.

There will probably be worse to come. If I see something that looks racist to me, I will be arguing along side of you.

[Occam Bandage]

45. Once it becomes apparent that Obama is the nominee, we'll be seeing people pushing

the race-baiting boundries all campaign. McCain will have to watch out; it can be very easy to overstep badly.

[Ravy]

47. That cuts both ways...

Obama went to the bottom of the Democratic heap when his supporters accused the Clintons of being racists for mentioning that Johnson signed civil rights into law. And the misquote about the "fairy tale". He has recovered some since then. I hate to see him slide back with charges of racism that are unwarranted.

I would like to be excited about him being president, but this is showing he is pretty thin-skinned, imho. Do I look forward to 4 or 8 years of these racism charges being slung around so loosely? Not for a moment.

[Occam Bandage]

48. "Obama went to the bottom of the Democratic heap?" Er, you might have missed it,

but he won that state by 30 points, leapt ahead 20 points in the Super Tuesday polling, and hasn't lost a race since.

[Ravy]

50. I was referring to my opinion of him.

His accusing them of being racists has been very effective for him. It doesn't make it true.

[Occam Bandage]

53. Sorry. The racial fracas was her doing, and joins Snubgate, Plagiarismgate, Cowardgate, Cokegate,

Falsehopegate, KindergartenEssaygate, and God can only remember how many othergates, in her Great Hall Of Backfires.

[Ravy]

54. Like I said, we see it differently. Enough said on the subject.