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Let's compare. Foreign Policy In Focus: Behind Obama and Clinton

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:50 PM
Original message
Let's compare. Foreign Policy In Focus: Behind Obama and Clinton
Hard to edit this one down -- read it in full at link below for details

Behind Obama and Clinton
Stephen Zunes | February 4, 2008

Foreign Policy In Focus www.fpif.org


Voters on the progressive wing of the Democratic Party are rightly disappointed by the similarity of the foreign policy positions of the two remaining Democratic Party presidential candidates, Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama. However, there are still some real discernable differences to be taken into account. ... As a result, the kind of people the next president appoints to top positions in national defense, intelligence, and foreign affairs is critical. ...

~snip~

Contrasting Teams
Senator Clinton’s foreign policy advisors tend to be veterans of President Bill Clinton’s administration, most notably former secretary of state Madeleine Albright and former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger. Her most influential advisor - and her likely choice for Secretary of State - is Richard Holbrooke. Holbrooke served in a number of key roles in her husband’s administration, ... He also served as President Jimmy Carter’s assistant secretary of state for East Asia in propping up Marcos in the Philippines, supporting Suharto’s repression in East Timor, and backing the generals behind the Kwangju massacre in South Korea.

Senator Barack Obama’s foreign policy advisers, who on average tend to be younger than those of the former first lady, include mainstream strategic analysts who have worked with previous Democratic administrations, such as former national security advisors Zbigniew Brzezinski and Anthony Lake, former assistant secretary of state Susan Rice, and former navy secretary Richard Danzig. They have also included some of the more enlightened and creative members of the Democratic Party establishment, such as Joseph Cirincione and Lawrence Korb of the Center for American Progress, and former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke. His team also includes the noted human rights scholar and international law advocate Samantha Power - author of a recent New Yorker article on U.S. manipulation of the UN in post-invasion Iraq - and other liberal academics. Some of his advisors, however, have particularly poor records on human rights and international law, such as retired General Merrill McPeak, a backer of Indonesia’s occupation of East Timor, and Dennis Ross, a supporter of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank.

Contrasting Issues
While some of Obama’s key advisors, like Larry Korb, have expressed concern at the enormous waste from excess military spending, Clinton’s advisors have been strong supporters of increased resources for the military.

While Obama advisors Susan Rice and Samantha Power have stressed the importance of U.S. multilateral engagement, Albright allies herself with the jingoism of the Bush administration, taking the attitude that “If we have to use force, it is because we are America! We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall, and we see further into the future.”

~snip~

Pre-War Positions
During the lead-up to the war, Obama’s advisors were suspicious of the Bush administration’s claims that Iraq somehow threatened U.S. national security ... Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security advisor in the Carter administration, argued that public support for war “should not be generated by fear-mongering or demagogy.”

By contrast, Clinton’s top advisor and her likely pick for secretary of state, Richard Holbrooke, insisted that Iraq remained “a clear and present danger at all times.”

Brzezinski warned that the international community would view the invasion of a country that was no threat to the United States as an illegitimate an act of aggression. ...

~snip~

These differences in the key circles of foreign policy specialists surrounding these two candidates are consistent with their diametrically opposed views in the lead-up to the war.

National Security
Not every one of Clinton’s foreign policy advisors is a hawk. Her team also includes some centrist opponents of the war, including retired General Wesley Clark and former Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

On balance, it appears likely that a Hillary Clinton administration, like Bush’s, would be more likely to embrace exaggerated and alarmist reports regarding potential national security threats, to ignore international law and the advice of allies, and to launch offensive wars. By contrast, a Barack Obama administration would be more prone to examine the actual evidence of potential threats before reacting, to work more closely with America’s allies to maintain peace and security, to respect the country’s international legal obligations, and to use military force only as a last resort.

Progressive Democrats do have reason to be disappointed with Obama’s foreign policy agenda. At the same time, as The Nation magazine noted, members of Obama’s foreign policy team are “more likely to stress ’soft power’ issues like human rights, global development and the dangers of failed states.” As a result, “Obama may be more open to challenging old Washington assumptions and crafting new approaches.”

And new approaches are definitely needed.

Stephen Zunes, a Foreign Policy In Focus analyst, is a professor of politics and international studies at the University of San Francisco.



http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4940


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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee/Subcommittee on Europe - hasn't gone to Europe?
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 01:16 PM by MethuenProgressive
And he's never even called a single policy hearing.

Doubts about Barack Obama's presidential credentials have crystallized during the past two weeks over his stewardship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Subcommittee on European Affairs, which has convened no policy hearings since he took over as its chairman last January. That startling fact, first uncovered by Steve Clemons, who blogs on the Washington Note, prompted acid comment in Europe about the Illinois senator's failure to visit the continent since assuming the committee post, and even speculation that he had never traveled there except for a short stopover in London.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/12/29/obama_europe/
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I'll take Obamas kind of experience any day
over Mrs. Clinton's TOTAL lack of judgement and her deep deep friendship with John McCain McWar.

He has lived overseas, and can immediately understand foreign policy issues far more intelligently than Mrs. CLinton.

She is totally, 100%, absolutely lacking in the judgement necessary to be commander in chief.

There is no possible basis whatsoever to defend her judgement. It just is not there.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yeah, fancy private Haiwian prep shcool, Columbia, Harvard, Slumlord's pet, Swiftboat pilot..
He has the experience to be a Good Republican.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. He did not come from privilege
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent Post
Shows just how far toward the Re-Thugs Mrs. Clinton and her advisers have consistently been.

Not surprising that Mrs. Clinton then cast her IWR vote "with conviction"

or that she defends the vote vigorously to this day.

The inability to admit any mistake is also scarily reminiscent of George W. Bush.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Mrs. Clinton's deep friendship with John McCain
Is also largely based around his views on foreign policy. Desire to use military force against Iran.

She has only come around to "withdrawal" in Iraq - after defending "No Timetables" for litterally months in the
Senate (along with her good good buddy McCain).

How nice if we got to choose between two clear examples of "More of the Same" in November?!?

***SARCASM***
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. She doesnt' want to invade Iran. She was being presidential when she said she would not rule it out.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. She should rule it out
Invading Iran would be the Apotheosis of stupidity. Not only do we not have the capacity at this stage - it would be a strategic
blunder even greater than the invasion of Iraq.

It would destroy any hopes of mid-east peace for a thousand years to come.

Any presidential candidate who cannot FLATLY rule out invading Iran is again - a total fool, lacking the
slightest bit of judgement.

"Presidential"?!??!? - try she was "bein' like her buddy" - John "McWar" McCain.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Got a link to that?
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Bill Clinton - "She and John McCain are Very Close"
They "like and respect eachother"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBYyn8tOIKY

Watch Bill himself spell it out for ya.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. The world wants Bill Clinton back. A known entity. They're more likely to get it if she's elected.
This is particularly the case in the Middle East where they remember Arafat dropping the ball and GWB not giving a damn and not letting Powell save it.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Amen. US is now hated; foreign leaders love Bill Clinton and respect him
He will get everything back on track quickly.

This isn't a time for on the job training.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. But Bill isn't running
I thought. :shrug:
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. His wife is
and that will mean a great deal to foreign leaders whose support we need to win.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. I read this a while back
it obviously misrepresents Albright's comment (taken out of context) and Clinton's foreign policy in general.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. How does is misrepresent Albright's comment?
Can you elaborate?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. And further
can you also elaborate on how it "misrepresents Clinton's foreign policy in general"?

Thanks. :hi:
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Albrights comments
IIRC were made in the context of discussing national security.

Some folks have taken Albrights and Clinton's policies referring to national security issues and extrapolated them to apply to foreign policy in general.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I find it interesting that the Albright comment is from
1998 -- If I am not mistaken, she was talking about justifying Clinton's 1998 bombing of Iraq. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Interestingly, I have read that Madeleine Albright was a protégé of Zbigniew Brzezinski, who is now one of Obama's advisors. Also, Albright is the daughter of Josef Korbel, a former diplomat and professor. Condoleezza Rice is a protégé of Korbel.

Things are so intertwined with our foreign policy, and have been for so long, that one begins to think that passing the torch from repug to Democrat will hardly matter.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. "I believe in coercive diplomacy." -Hillary Clinton
direct quote, heard with my own ears.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. And I wonder what HRC'c definition of 'coercive diplomacy'
really is.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. Biased much?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. lol.
Not much. ;)
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I should add, fwiw
(Not that it will likely resonate with many) A quick search here on DU will show that one of my biggest concerns initially in leaning toward Obama was the fact that he had chosen Brzezinski as one of his foreign policy advisors. I've posted about other concerns, as well.

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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. That article was discussed at length earlier; poorly written, all sorts of biases all around
Obama's statements on Pakistan worry me quite a lot (a topic I know a bit about).

The members of the Obama foreign policy and economic advisors are each problematic. A bit two belligerent and too market-driven for me.

Neither Obama nor Clinton represent the direction I would like for the party and the country.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I do not necessarily disagree, unc70
I never saw the previous discussion on the same article. I would be curious to see the thread to see if any intelligent discussion occurred. If it was posted here in GD: P, I have little faith that any meaningful discussion occurred, but I could be proven wrong. :)
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