'Shame on you, Barack Obama. It is time you ran a campaign consistent with your messages in public"

[bigtree]

February 23, 2008, 1:04 PM


(CBS)
From CBS News' Fernando Suarez:

CINCINNATI -- Speaking to reporters following a rally at a community college here, Clinton slammed Obama and his campaign for distributing mailings to Ohio voters attacking Clinton’s universal health care plan and her position on NAFTA.

“Today in the crowd I was given two mailings that Senator Obama’s campaign is sending and I have to express my deep disappointment that he is continuing to send false and discredited mailings with information that is not true to the voters of Ohio. He says one thing in speeches and then he turns around does this,” Clinton said waiving the two mailings at the cameras.

“Just because Senator Obama chose not to present a universal health care plan does not give him the right to attack me because I did. So let’s have a real campaign. Enough with the speeches and the big rallies and then using tactics that are right out of Karl Rove's playbook, this is wrong and every Democrat should be outraged.”

“This election is about misleading, false and discredited attacks that interfere with voters being able to make an informed judgment,” she said.

“I am not going to stand here and see this campaign polluted by the kind of misleading, discredited and false attacks. We deserve better than that. He’s been called out on it, he has been contradicted on it, he knows better and here it is ‘Paid for by the Obama for America Campaign.’”

“So, shame on you Barack Obama. It is time you ran a campaign consistent with your messages in public, that’s what I expect from you. Meet me in Ohio and let’s have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/02/23/politics/fromth...

[JimGinPA]

1. Ahhhhh, The Desperation

[bigtree]

3. why would a campaign so convinced of their overwhelming appeal resort to this tactic?

[KhaOZ]

90. You tell me. HILLARY HYPOCRACY "Which of these doesn't deserve Healthcare?" PICTURE

What lies and hypocrisy from the Hillary campaign

[yourguide]

93. AMAZING!!!

Thank YOU!

[Recursion]

310. Why, oh why, does logging into an online forum make people forget how to spell 'hypocrisy'?

I've wondered this for about 20 years now.

EDIT: ironically, for a typo.

[krkaufman]

328. im not shure wut trafican a online form has to do with mispellen werds

I expect people are, generally, equal opportunity misspellers.

[Bongo Prophet]

342. Hypocracy = rule by hypocrites. ...A neologism, sure - but i have embraced it for decades now.

It's all in how one looks at it, ya know?

[Recursion]

356. I suppose "hypocracy" would be "under-rule"

That is, not quite anarchy but insufficient government. Come to think of it, that's a pretty good neologism for a failed state that isn't fully anarchic.

[Bongo Prophet]

360. U R right, that is actually more accurate. "Rule by hypocrites" would be Hypocritocracy.

Hypocrititis would be the disease, likely chronic or periodic inflammation. Possibly contagious, often airborne.

[Martin Eden]

361. Because they're a bunch of loosers

My biggest nitpick with mispelling on the internet is using the word "loose" (rhymes with juice) when the correct word is "lose" (rhymes with booze).

[grantcart]

53. let us continue to debate until I actually win one

[ekwhite]

320. Silly Rabbit...

no one wins debates on Democratic Underground (unless you invoke Godwin's law). They just degenerate into name-calling contests.

[Maribelle]

186. Desperation thy name is Obama

something in the wind today
could be drifting acoss the Gulf
from NOLA

[barb162]

302. LOL!! n/t

[redstate_democrat]

193. HILLARY LIES SO MUCH SHE THINKS SHE IS BEING STRAIGHT

Hillary Clinton: "Nafta has been good for New York and America."
Hillary Clinton ON HEALTH CARE-SKIRTS THE ISSUE

SHE WAS FOR NAFTA. HOW IS IT "ROVIAN" TO POINT THAT OUT? THIS WOMAN HAS BROUGHT UP THIS MAN'S KINDERGARTEN PAPERS, THE PHONE "PLAGIARISM" CHARGE, THE AYERS CRAP, MICHELLE'S COMMENTS WHICH WERE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. HER CAMPAIGN IS FULL OF SHIT. I PREDICT A DOUBLE DIGIT LANDSLIDE IN OHIO FOR OBAMA FOR THIS ONE. PEOPLE THERE WERE WILLING TO OVERLOOK HER NAFTA STANCE, BUT NOW SHE IS TRYING TO INSULT THEIR INTELLIGENCE. HOW PATHETIC.

[bunkerbuster1]

207. Is this a "Hitlery iz a LESBO" crack?

Just askin'.

[rambler_american]

359. You might want to rephrase that.

heh

[dicknbush]

226. Hooray your brain washing by the Right winged nutters is complete..

EVERYTHING HILLARY SAYS IS A LIE EVERYBODY ELSE TELLS THE TRUTH..BY THE WAY DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE SUPPORTING A CANDIDATE THAT DICK MORRIS IS SUPPORTING THAT SLIME BALL TRAITOR WHO HATES THE CLINTONS JUST BECAUSE THEY FIRED HIM AFTER HIS TOE SUCKING EPISODE WITH A PROSTITUTE. GOOD COMPANY!

[pnwmom]

308. We ALL lose when Obama uses the Rethug "Harry and Louise" tactics to oppose

HRC's health care plan. Doesn't he realize the Rethugs will turn this back on him -- that his proposal could be subject to the exact same tactics?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

353. smells like napalm in the morning.

damn, she is grasping at straws.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debi]

4. "Barack is picking on me"

Is that the new campaign slogan?

What happend to 'Change you can Xerox'?

[bigtree]

14. what ever happened to the 'integrity' candidate?

[Debi]

35. She didn't pay her bills n/t

[OzarkDem]

42. No, Obama is lying

and his vapid supporters are trying to let him get away with it.

[Debi]

48. Whatever you say....at least those flyers are paid for

Unlike Clinton's staff, taxes, insurance

[cliffordu]

126. Sorry -

[Name removed]

263. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debi]

264. First of all, Welcom to DU

Second - here are the DU rules thank you for reading and abiding by them http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...

Third - here's the link to the FEC www.fec.gov please read the 19 pages of debts owed by the Clinton campaign ($7.6 million + the $5 million loan with interest)

The campaign didn't pay staff, food vendors, taxes, event sites - including small school districts.

Fourth why am I a traitor? Because I think a presidential candidate should pay their bills? That attitude is lame.

Here's a smilie for you

[papau]

299. well said - but expect gradeschool level responses om DU from Obama supporters as the walk on water

candidate does no wrong!

I fear we are nominating a two or more faced fellow that I will vote for while holding my nose and crossing my fingers that I am wrong -

but I am fairly sure we can kiss the Medicare like option for everyone that's in Hillary and Edward's plans - and copied in Obama's -away - far, far away - as he will tell is how he had to give it up in order to change the atmosphere in DC and get some GOP LOVE -and we will be left with a simple welfare for insurance company's plan that moves tax dollars into subsidized insurance premiums for the insurance companies to take in - in return for near nothing in benefits unregulated operation "market-place plans".

but on DU the cheers for stopping Hillary via the GOP smears repackaged and enhanced with the Obama race card claim that Clinton was allowing racist remarks by supporters based on statements that had to be stretched to get a racial meaning - those cheers will never stop -

heck - the left like Brads Blog were a major force in the stopping of nationwide election audits for 08 - we always seem to shot ourselves in the foot and then argue about how big a victory the loss of the foot was.

After 50 years of this I should really expect this and not let my hopes get as high as I did this time with Edwards and then Hillary.

[GMFORD]

364. Here's my grade school response.

Medicare-like option? Forcing people to purchase PRIVATE health insurance is not medicare-like. The insurance companies would love that plan. If the enforcement is done by garnishment or payroll deduction, it will be the first time in this country that the government forces payroll deduction on everyone to pay for a monthly service from a private company...think about the precedent that sets.

Furthermore, how will these 'mandates' play in the general election? They are political suicide...can't you see the right-wing attack ads now? Lots of Dems and Independents, as well as Republicans, have a libertarian aversion to the government taking more of our money.

I swear when I get out of grade school, I'll have to teach some of you grownups a thing or two about critical thinking in the real world.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

313. Give up n/t

[dicknbush]

228. I Dont know seems like she is calling out a lying liar to me...

Wouldn't you get upset if someone called you a lying liar...but of course since you are supporting a lying liar well maybe you enjoy that kind of comapany ...not me I stay away from that sort of person after I make it clear that they are a lying liar and good people know it and have the choice to stay away form them.

[Bongo Prophet]

343. I guess they ran out of toner? those messy cartridges! Grrr. n/t

[Tennessee Gal]

5. Go Hillary!

[jillan]

138. Amen! Get the truth out to the voters!

[NJSecularist]

6. Now she's playing the victim card

This is the only way she can win. That's the only way she can appeal to her base ---> white females.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Actually her base is registered Democrats

At least it is in Ohio. In an Ohio Poll ABC released February 21st, Clinton is ahead of Obama among registered Democrats by 55% to 39%. She is also ahead among union household voters in Ohio by 53% to 37%.

[NJSecularist]

20. The splits show Obama doing very good among white men

But Hillary taking a big lead due to white women. That is her base. And when she plays the victim card, she does well among that base.

[bigtree]

18. It's more about defending her record on one of the key issues in Ohio.

The mailer trashing universal health coverage seems to be the only way Obama thinks he can win there.

[Duncan]

230. Like thats what Hillary is proposing?

Mandating that people buy insurance or face a tax penalty, which will be used to subsidize insurance companies does not sound like a viable "universal health coverage" plan to me. It sounds like an insurance company lobbyists wet dream. Also, Hillary says she wants to debate Barack's tactics?!? WTF? If she is such a good scrapper, why doesn't she bother explaining what was in the mailings that she claims is not true.

Hillary:"Meet me in Ohio and let’s have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign.”

Obama campaign guy: "Everything in those mailers is completely accurate...We look forward to having a debate this Tuesday on the facts, and the facts are that Senator Clinton was a supporter of NAFTA and the China permanent trade treaties until this campaign began. And she herself has said that under the Clinton health care plan, she would consider 'going after the wages' of Americans who don't purchase health insurance, whether they can afford it or not,”

Which of the above quotes sounds more reasonable?

Calling Obama's campaign Rovian is hypocritical.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

314. No

This is about yet another strategy change (which seem to be coming daily). Penn is telling her to be the strong victim standing up for herself. This sort of things appeals to her base, at least they think it does. Actually at this point they arent sure what appeals to anyone any more. They are just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks. Desperation never looked so sad. I am beginning to feel sorry for her actually.

[Usrename]

351. Welcome to DU!

Yep, I feel a little sorry for her, too. Her campaign is fine with just letting her hurl herself under the wheels of a juggernaut.

[jgraz]

157. No, it's not the only way she can win. There is no way she can win

She can just rip up the party and our nominee. What a sad, toxic human being.

[dicknbush]

224. BS THIS IS THE WAY IT IS PLAYED....THE RACE IS NOT OVER AND OBAMANABLE CAN STILL LOSE

[jgraz]

240. Texas by 30, Ohio by 25. Bank on it.

[dicknbush]

249. Hoping Hopefulness is very hopeful in the hopfullness of hoping!

[jgraz]

250. Gee, dick, the guy's on an 11 game winning streak and your candidate is melting down

Who's the one "hoping" again?

[dicknbush]

258. YEs but the hopefullness of hoping is always more hopefull then hopelssness....

And hoping is so much more hopefull then not being hopefull because hope is so hopefull and when I pay my bills with hope the check always bounces but then I have hope that some day hope will be a hopefull commodity that is acceptable in all hopefulness of hoiping!

OH by the way your next assignment should you chosse to be hopefully hopefgul for the Lord Obamanable is to remove Tavis Smiley with extreme prejudice for this blasphemous lack of hopefulness:


"But Smiley's criticism(of Obama) has also prompted many people to come to Obama's defense. The talk show host told The Washington Post he has been inundated with angry e-mails and even death threats."

"I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley told the newspaper.

True Obamanables will remove the folowers of Hopelessness

[samdogmom]

330. This is really funny! Thanks!

By the way, I'm an Obama supporter, but I can still see humor in some of these posts.

And, believe it or not, I do think the hopefulness of hope is better than the hopelessness of no hope. So there!

[Bongo Prophet]

344. Well then, just think of the hopeless vets sleeping under bridges to the 20th century!

[barb162]

301. I think she's turning it around and will win Ohio and TX.

Her campaign WAS in a slump.

[jgraz]

318. Obama in Texas by 30, Ohio by 25. Care to put money on it?

Say, a donation to DU in the other person's name?

[Generic Brad]

306. That is true mathematically

But the reality is that it will not likely happen. Hillary Clinton not only has to run the table on the remaining primaries, but she has to do so by margins comparable to the ones she has been losing by. What are the odds?

Yes. It is possible for her to win the nomination. And monkeys could also fly out of my butt.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

355. cool. Can you get a video of that? the monkeys' part.

you are right, it is hopeless for her. And yet, after that little bit at the end of the debate, she now attacks.

Schizophrenic campaign, almost. You can sense the battles within her leadership council fighting "Be nice" vs. "ATTACK"

[applegrove]

269. He should have sent out a better flyer. Was a stupid thing to do.

[GMFORD]

365. Not all of us. n/t

[JKaiser]

7. Hillary is awesome! Go Hillary!

[wndycty]

Well Hillary there is a deabte Tuesday night. . .

. . .so you will be having a debate. And if your performance this past week is any indication you will not talk shit to his face and play nice. LOL

[speedoo]

8. Strong words. But she needs to provide some spoecifics.

But I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this from both sides.

[yourguide]

9. This coming from the...

Penn, Wolfson, & Ickes run campaign of nothing but false attacks based on the Rove playbook???

ROFL. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[tabatha]

12. One misleading Hillary mailer caused a supporter of Hillary

to move to Obama.

[yourguide]

24. I would LOVE to see that mailer...

Of course she doesnt mention the content of the mailer. Just says it's false and misleading.

I think her campaign just figured out that negative attacks dont work so they are going to accuse HIM of negative attacks with nothing more than her holding up a sheet of paper and claiming it's negative.

WOW.

[Tennessee Gal]

38. I am sure the media has a copy of it and will report on it.

Go Hillary!

[yourguide]

Riiiiiiiiiight. n/t

[mopinko]

79. ding ding ding again. put it up here.

it's full of lies? post 'em.

[cali]

10. LOL! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

That's hilarious! Someone better call the whiny Senator the Waaambulance. She's in dire need of it.

Thanks for posting this, though I don't see how you could have missed the neon irony of Clinton's remarks.

[boston bean]

16. She must have missed it because there isn't any. He is using RW attacks and talking points to

discredit her Healthcare plan.

She on the other hand has been trying to show the differences.

[cali]

26. gee, you missed the lying mailer that she sent out

in NH? You know, the one that prompted the head of NH NARAL to send out a strongly worded letter scolding Clinton. Not to mention the attempt to hang his having served on a board with William Ayers around his neck like Willie Horton. Please, they're both playing hardball, but the Clinton campaign is the one following Rovian tactics. And they're on the record as admiring his "work".

[boston bean]

hillary does it, hillary does it. that 's the freakin point. he is not a saint.

he is not the second coming.

[Occam Bandage]

84. The freakin point is that Hillary is being hypocritical here?

Nobody thinks Obama is a saint or the second coming. It's a very pretty strawman, though.

[casus belli]

300. Since when did arguing about the issues become a RW tactic? n/t

[Occam Bandage]

11. Oh, finger-wagging and whining. That'll go over great!

Man, what a campaign she's running.

[bigtree]

23. what an opposition you're running

operation ridicule.

[Occam Bandage]

40. So, blown any 20-point leads lately?

Seriously. This kind of "campaigning" is why she's a rolling chokejob.

[bigtree]

59. Obama has gotten a little over 315,000 votes more than Hillary

effectively denying him enough delegates to claim the nomination on votes alone. And, that's not even including these large states coming up. That's what the fear is in the Obama camp. They worry that she'll register even more support and muddy their coronation.

[Occam Bandage]

67. And Hillary rode a 30-point lead, 80% Dem favorables, and $140 million to 2nd place. Why?

Because of incompetent campaigning like this. Just like Bush, she seems to think that you can effectively run an election by pandering to your supporters and turning off everyone else. Unlike Bush, she doesn't have the enormous built-in support base required to pull that strategy off.

[bigtree]

94. Obama ran a good campaign and an excellent fundraising drive

enabling him to get better exposure and become better organized.

Don't discount that vote. Those are 10 million plus supporters for Clinton.

[Occam Bandage]

102. Frankly, a "good campaign" would not have been sufficient to break up Hillary's coronation.

She had a thirty point lead and 80 percent favorables among Democrats, and most Democrats reported being happy with their choices. Obama was in the utterly unenviable position of having to convert people who liked Hillary, without having any notable policy differences from her. There was absolutely no reason for Clinton to lose.

However, Obama ran an excellent campaign, showing his strong executive skills. Clinton, on the other hand, ran a rolling clusterfuck, in which she ceded half the states and didn't actually plan past Super Tuesday. Every time she started to pick up momentum, she turned bizarrely nasty, forgetting that the negative campaigning that her base loves so well just makes everyone else dislike her.

Just like with every other time she goes nasty, you'll see the Hillary supporters cheering. But have you noticed that every time you cheer her for "taking it to Obama," she drops in the polls?

[bigtree]

117. polls.

in the polls.

[Occam Bandage]

125. 0-10. It didn't have to be that way.

[bigtree]

132. so much concern

[Occam Bandage]

196. Concern? Nope. Glee, actually. She's doing the same shit that lost her ten in a row.

[quakerboy]

227. Obama has gotten a little over a million votes more than Hillary

Where do you get your numbers?

I get mine from the Individual state offices and democratic party sites for the states that have voted. I have a few states to check for final results, but my math says Obama is up 1,374,922 votes. Or, if you count Fl and MN(with a 0, no less), He is still up nearly a million votes, 940,199 to be exact.

[bigtree]

248. you're not counting Michigan and Florida

[quakerboy]

292. I am including Michigan and florida

Quoting from the post that you apparently just ignored...

"Or, if you count Fl and MN(with a 0, no less), He is still up nearly a million votes, 940,199 to be exact"

So to reiterate... even if you count the votes in Florida, and you count the votes for Hillary in Michigan with a 0 for Obama, Barack is still up 940,199. Very nearly a million.

Reading my quote I could almost see you mistaking what I meant to not include florida and michigan. Except that I posted 2 different numbers. One without, one with.

Want my math? I will send you the excel sheet. I cant seem to find an official count total for New Jersey, so I am for the moment using the numbers from the election night coverage. That official number might change the total a bit, but based on all of the other states differences from coverage to official count, I sincerely doubt more than about 20k either way.

[orleans]

304. what is a "rolling chokejob" n/t

[MadHound]

51. Tactics like this deserve nothing but ridicule

They are the mouthings of a desperate and despairing candidate.

[bigtree]

65. Of course it isn't 'desperate and despairing' when your candidate complains

save your ridicule

[Occam Bandage]

70. Yes, we're "desperately" cruising to the nomination.

[bigtree]

78. so, instead of 'desperate' we can now call his campaigns actions . . .

. . . opportunistic

[Occam Bandage]

81. Call it what you want. In fact, the angrier the better. I like watching you self-marginalize.

[bigtree]

134. I like the over confidence of the Obama camp

[Occam Bandage]

195. I like the angry confusion of the Clinton camp.

[bigtree]

354. Only those folks who like to play off of our party marginalize themselves.

what a narrow view you have of this process . . . and of the folks you communicate with here.

[MadHound]

100. This is far beyond complainging on Hillary's part

This is whining like a school child over a perceived slight that turns out to be nothing at all. Hillary can't point, at least in this article, to any specifics, just holds up the flyers and essentially states "Mommy the mean man is picking on me."

It is fully deserving of all the ridicule and scorn heaped on it. If she can't stand for a fellow contender to criticize her plans and policies, the she never should have gotten into the race.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

316. Its the strong martyr card

that she played in 1998 to such success. unfortunately its not working out the way she planned in 2008.

[dailykoff]

170. What else have they got?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. WOW! GO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!

No THAT's the type of response I want to hear from our candidates!

[Radical Activist]

17. What was false about the mailing?

The article doesn't say. Are we supposed to believe Hillary is a fair trade candidate? ha!

[DUyellow]

52. what is false?

[Stephanie]

73. That's what I'd like to know - I checked the article too.

What exactly is untrue in this mailing? What a lousy reporter - they didn't even tell us what the mailers said.

[denem]

19. "does not give him the right to attack me"

Obama and Hillary disagree on mandates for health insurance.

He disagrees with her
- so he does not have a right to say why and call her on it?

[Maven]

25. No, he doesn't have the right to mislead people and use RW scare tactics

that set the cause of UHC back, just to attack her.

[denem]

54. set the cause of UHC back, JUST TO ATTACK HER?

:WTF:

[Maven]

61. Yes, using "Harry & Louise" type ads to scare people about UHC

is insidious.

[Voice for Peace]

220. but do you not see that she has done similar, more often, even worse?

[dicknbush]

262. You have been brainwashed by the right winged slime machine.

[Voice for Peace]

276. LOL so that's what happened...

[Maven]

21. This is probably one of the most despicable things his campaign has done

and I'm glad she's calling him out directly on it.

[yourguide]

29. Harvey

since you seem to know SO much about it , what is the content of the mailer?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OzarkDem]

47. Exactly, there's much to be concerned with re Obama's lies

[CatnHat]

69. It's about time

Hillary. Call him out--Is he is so afraid of loosing OH and TX; he has to resort to downright lies and distortions to get votes. Go Hillary, demand that he addresses this. I would just love to hear his explanation.

[emilyg]

96. ****

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. Every Democrat should be OUTRAGED!

[cali]

30. bwahahaha

Were you outraged when the Clinton campaign sent out mailers that lied about Obama and choice? No? That's called hypocrisy.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

43. sorry to ruin your scorn moment....but, I don't know anything about the choice flyers

[anigbrowl]

244. Then you're uninformed. Try google. /nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

278. sorry cicada, I don't think cali needed you to answer for her...and do you know me?

[Seabiscuit]

92. We all are. The only ones that aren't are freeper plants.

[mtnsnake]

27. OUCH!! Taking the gloves off, baby!!

K&R!

[GarbagemanLB]

28. All these attacks just help Obama. Go Hillary! Help Obama end this on March 5th!

[ariesgem]

339. Exactly.

[Seabiscuit]

31. You go girl! Tell it like it is Hillary. nt

[ProSense]

33. Hillary's campaign attacks, and then whines. Here, her mailer accusing Obama of "demagoguery"

Hillary mailer accuses Obama of "demagoquery," Kennedy responds and a fact check on SCHIP

Hillary's misleading messages!

[ProSense]

76. Factcheck Hillary's desperation: "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois."

According to news reports, the Clinton campaign lashed out at the use of the mailer in a conference call with selected reporters, complaining that the mail piece bears a resemblance to the "Harry and Louise" TV spots of 1993 and 1994 (pictured here).

One person on the call emotionally said the Obama mail piece was "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois." That outburst was quickly disavowed during the call by Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson, who said it is "not a comparison that (the campaign) would make." The unpaid health care adviser who made the remark, Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, later apologized. He sent an e-mail to reporters saying, "My passions overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate."

We agree that there is a resemblance between the photo on the Obama mailer and the TV spots. In those ads actors portraying a white, middle-class couple expressed grave concerns about how the Clinton administration's health care plan would affect them. The ads were part of a $17 million campaign by the insurance industry that was widely credited – rightly or wrongly – with contributing to the defeat of the Clinton plan, and the ads still anger many advocates of broader government efforts to provide health insurance. But so far as we can see, Obama's choice of images in his mailer has nothing whatever to do with the accuracy of the claims it makes, or the accuracy of what "Harry and Louise" said, for that matter.

link

[scheming daemons]

34. Hillary's "attempt" at Health Care Reform cost the Democrats congress for 12 years....

...let's tell the truth here.

She put the "Gingrich Revolution" into power.

[OzarkDem]

39. GOP talking points, again

All lies, all disproven.

[scheming daemons]

56. GOP talking points? are you stoned?

Where do YOU place the blame for us losing both houses in 1994? For the first time in four decades.....


I'm pissed that we had to live through 12 years of GOP rule over congress. How did we lose it after having it for 40 years?


You think a GOP "talking point" is that they are UPSET that they got control of congress for a dozen years?


Man... you Hillbots are delusional.


Hillary Clinton, nearly single-handedly, gave the GOP control of congress from 1994 to 2006 with her botched Health Care Reform. If she would've gone about it the right way, it would've passed and the "Gingrich Revolution" of 1994 would have never happened.


"GOP talking points".... sheesh, you're like a fucking parrot.

[ProSense]

58. Not a Repub talking point, a reality

[Straight Shooter]

235. That's just silly. That isn't because of Clinton, it's because of lockstep Repubs.

Tom DeLay also comes to mind. The GOP had a lock on power and weren't about to let it go. Don't you remember when the Dems controlled they got totally out of hand and were absolute powermongers?

If gathering Dems together for a common goal to beat the GOP could have been accomplished, we wouldn't have your little laundry list. You gripe about current Congressional Dems not having a spine but won't admit that has more to do with our losses than anything else, needless to mention election tampering.

List of convenience, I'd say.

[dicknbush]

260. IT also had to do with the national brainwashing by Limbaugh his rise to fame was because

Of his hatefull and insiped lying about the Health care plan that Clinton was trying to get enacted. The idiot public bought it. Not unlike they are buying this idiots line. I predict that at the end of whoevers first term there will still be no Helath care system in plkace in this country. The LOBBYISTS WILL BE IN THE OVAL OFFICE WITH OBAMANABLE AS QUICK AS YOU CAN SAY SLIDE ME SOME SKIN BRO!

[murielm99]

267. The electorate was also quite frightened after four years

of the first bush. People were afraid of losing their jobs and everything they had worked to gain in their lifetimes. The first bush ran a larger deficit than Reagan.

I think they wanted change then, too, although no one was running a pie-in-the-sky hope and change campaign. The desire for change was so strong that Perot was actually getting a significant amount of support. I have often wondered what would have happened if he had not dropped out and then come back into the race.

By 1994, things had not settled. I believe the Democrats lost control of Congress because the people wanted them swept out, too. They were perceived and complacent and unresponsive to the peoples' needs.

Yes, the Limbaugh hate machine and the so-called liberal media did not help. I think the media is much worse now. They have chosen our candidate for us, and he is the one the republicans think they can beat.

I do not like Obama. But if he is the nominee, I will vote for him, if only for the sake of the Supreme Court.

[ingac70]

282. The GOP didn't get that "lock" on power...

until '94.

[ksquire]

289. evidence please?

Where was this disproven? Sometimes a fact is a fact -- whether it also appears on a Republican talking point or not.

[Forkboy]

36. K&R, because every attack she launches blows up in her face instead.

[GarbagemanLB]

41. Agreed K&R. Thank you Hillary!

[VolcanoJen]

123. I hope she sends Bill out to whip up some outrage!!

That always gives Obama a 5-10 point jump in the polls.

[OzarkDem]

37. Yes! Obama reminds me of Bush the way he lies about his policies and record

American voters need to wake up and start asking questions of their candidates.

[denem]

46. Like Hillary's - Obama won't stand up for Choice mailer

in NV. Absolute hypocrisy.

[Windy]

55. I really don't think Hillary wants to continue this. I'm sure the Obama campaign has that mailer

from NV and NH.

Those are lies. I really don't see any lies in the mailer that obama was sending out.

where is the deception?

[TwilightGardener]

44. "Stop lying about my record!" It's over, baby, when that phrase comes out.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. I missed the false part.

I really want to know.

[jmg257]

49. More orders from the one in 2nd place?? "Demands" more debates where he can shine?

She just will not learn!

[AZBlue]

50. Hello, pot? This is kettle....

I am not going to stand here and see this campaign polluted by the kind of misleading, discredited and false attacks.

I CAN NOT believe that Hillary Clinton had the nerve to say those words out loud.

[K Gardner]

57. What a shrill, hypocritical shrew she is. I see no place for her in the democratic party. None after

this is over. Desperation is ugly on her.

[Karmadillo]

68. Won't you guys be too busy uniting with RWers like Sen. Coburn to purge the party of progressives?

nt

[VotesForWomen]

150. a shrill shrew? hmm. you were one of the biggest screamers of racism a while back, weren't you?

[paulk]

167. LOL

"I see no place for her in the democratic party"

maybe you should talk to the voters in NY about that.

not to mention the millions who have voted for her in the primaries so far.

[krabigirl]

323. what an ugly post.

[noiretextatique]

324. you aren't fit to lick her shoes

what a disgusting comment

[DDQ]

349. That is calculated sexist crap

from a democrat.

[Seabiscuit]

60. This shows BO's true colors: a shameless Rovian hypocrite without a health plan at all.

[CatnHat]

80. BO's

so called health plan is nothing more than the republican health plan has been for years. Make it affordable? Yeah, poor people find it hard to feed their families, they simply cannot afford any type of health plan; what about them? With Obama it's more of the same. Change? Hardly.

[dicknbush]

268. BO'S HEALTH PLAN STINKS!

[donheld]

62. Oh Cry Me A River

[tishaLA]

63. WHO is telling her to do this?

This is just a terrible tactic--"shame on you....come here and let's have a debate about your tactics"? That cannot be Sen Clinton. It has to be Penn. Or Wolfson. Or someone. But it's just not the right tone to use, IMHO. If she believes it's false information, call him on it, but the "shame" thing just...no.

[EFerrari]

106. Someone who can't wait to see a public suicide.

Beyond disappointing.

[DUyellow]

64. What was false about the mailing?

[DUyellow]

101. delete

[yourguide]

66. God HRC, STFU you friggin hypocrite!

From her statement about THIS matter:


“Just because Senator Obama chose not to present a universal health care plan does not give him the right to attack me because I did. So let’s have a real campaign. Enough with the speeches and the big rallies and then using tactics that are right out of Karl Rove's playbook, this is wrong and every Democrat should be outraged.”

First, he HAS presented a universal health care plan - god she talks about misleading but she lies while accusing HIM of lying.

Then this bullshit plagiarism thing she kept pushing. Pure Rove: attack a candidate on his strength.

I felt sorry for HRC up until this.

no more.

[SOS]

217. Funny lines in there

"let’s have a real campaign. Enough with the speeches and the big rallies"

What an absurd thing to say.
Maybe Clinton should make hand signals in an empty room and call it a "real campaign".

[dicknbush]

277. You felt sorry for Hillary PUuuulllelsse OH THANK YOU FOR FEELING SORRY FOR THE POOR LITTLE GIRL

BLeeeeeeech you are pathetic Oh and you poosters of Obamanable should have the word "OBEY" underneath them at this point culty!

SEEK OUT AND DESTROY TAVIS SMILEY FOR HE HAS DEIGNED TO OFFEND THE LORD OBAMANABLE (praise his name)

[scheming daemons]

71. It's funny that the OP thinks that is an appealing photo of Hillary...

....please... plaster that one all over the internet for us.

Yikes!

[nonconformist]

72. GO Hillary! Call him out on this right wing Harry and Louise ad!

And his supporters actually think he's going to do anything about health care. Please. If he wins, he'll "negotiate" his crappy weak plan into nothing.

[K Gardner]

74. Oh wait.. I forgot something: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAA... Bawack is tewwing the twuth ! Pity me."

[KhaOZ]

75. Did she show the ones she does? Like the "Barack, which of these people doesn't deserve healthcare?"

[mrreowwr_kittty]

77. STFU Sen. Clinton.

Mandatory health insurance is NOT universal health care.

Oh and as for smears, I've got 2 words for you: Present votes.

[Skarbrowe]

319. Oh yes it is! How do you think it is paid for? Everyone has to pay

something into the health care pot. If you are low income you pay very little or even get a tax break of some kind. Hillary's plan only requires a payment (small if low income, because the cost is commonly shared)), so EVERYONE is insured. The plan she wants to use for this is the same health plan they use in Congress. I don't know if that makes insurance companies rich or not, but if you allow millions of people to opt out of paying anything, how can you call it UNIVERSAL health care. The universal part comes in from a common sharing of cost by all the people according to what they can afford to pay. That way, again, EVERYONE is covered. Costs are kept down by more people paying into the system. Geez.

I've come over to the Obama side, but he does not have a working health care plan. I do not expect anything to change. If it does, most people won't notice it. I've come to accept that he might be better for us to mend ways with the rest of the world. He won't do anything much different that Hillary would have on the national level, except not change health care.

[bunnies]

82. H is for Hypocrite. eh Hillary? nt

[mopinko]

83. post them. post the lies. right here. or

stfu.

[Maven]

85. Go read about them yourself.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/More_negati...

The Obama campaign sends out an ugly mailer. Sorry, but this is just destructive — like the Obama plan, the Clinton plan offers subsidies to lower-income families. And BO himself has conceded that he might have to penalize people who don’t buy insurance until they need care. So this is just poisoning the well for health care reform. The politics of hope, indeed.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/obama-does-... /

Basically Obama sets the entire cause of UHC back by using RW scare tactics.

[yourguide]

116. SHE'S JOKING.

OMFG, I am dying laughing here...this is totally friggin true and she is accusing him of lying.

Bring it Hillbots...where are the lies she is so infuriated by?

[yourguide]

129. OMG are you kidding...

Thats the MAILER from IOWA!!!

ROFL.

Not even the issue we are talking about here.

You are DEF a genius

[Maven]

142. It's the SAME FUCKING MAILER, genius

Look at what she's holding in her hand, and compare it to the PDF in the article. Stop being lazy and spreading lies.

Obviously the lies worked well for him in Iowa, so he's using them again in Ohio.

[yourguide]

147. Do you have the TEXT from that mailer or are you just assuming...

that it's the same mailer?

[Maven]

149. THE PDF IS LINKED IN BOTH ARTICLES

[yourguide]

151. But neither article states its the OHIO mailer!

[Maven]

153. It's in the OP

"Speaking to reporters following a rally at a community college here, Clinton slammed Obama and his campaign for distributing mailings to Ohio voters..."

It's what she's holding in her hand. It's the SAME MAILER. Can't you see that?

[yourguide]

160. JUST BECAUSE IT HAS THE SAME FRONT IMAGE

IT DOESNT MEAN IT CONTAINS THE SAME TEXT!!!

Campaigns change mailers ALL the time but will use the SAME image for a healthcare mailer even if they change the content.

I HAVE been looking for the OHIO mailer, geared toward OHIO - not just any random healthcare mailer.

[Maven]

162. The TEXT is the same.

Just stop. Stop, seriously.

[yourguide]

165. Considering she doesnt have the mailer OPEN

how do you know?

you stop. I responded in a sarastic manner to you and you went STRAIGHT to name calling and insults.

So I have an idea...shut up or put up. Give me the OHIO mailer so I can see the text. Not just any health care mailer that was sent out prior to the first primary.

[Maven]

166. HERE. Took me about 10 SECONDS via Google.

http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/second-obama-maile...

It's the same. exact. mailer. People at that site have apparently also read the Krugman piece, and are wise to his deception.

[yourguide]

171. So, I was correct

It's not the same text - go figure.

And the krugman piece does NOT state it is FALSE that every american will be FORCED to pay for it, it also does not state that under HRCs plan you will not be penalized for not having health insurance. Personally I will gladly buy health insurance but I dont want to have to be forced into it. Then what happens to my sister who is out of work? Is she going to be penalized for not being able to buy it?

Hmmmm, so the mailer IS true. Give a link that states otherwise or step off.

[Maven]

175. It is EXACTLY the same text. What are you talking about?

The substitution of "Ohio" for "Iowa?"

And her plan SUBSIDIZES people based on what they can comfortably afford. Hence the statement "HRC's plan forces you to buy coverage even if you can't afford it" is a flat-out lie.

That is what Krugman is talking about. Obviously you have no problem with Obama twisting the truth by leaving out information, because you're prone to the same tactic.

[yourguide]

178. Did you COMPARE the mailers side by side?

Additional paragraph on second page, all different quotes. Added info about garnishement of wages which I am VERY against.

Please give me a link to where HRCs plan is subsidized based on what you can afford. I havent seen the media write about that.

[Maven]

179. LOL.

What a joke.

Goodbye.

[yourguide]

181. Apologies...

article states federal subsidies:

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN236397072...

However, the penalties remain.

Side note, considering that Baracks plan does NOT leave out 15 million americans as HRCs mailer claims - perhaps we can call both mailers even

[Maven]

183. .

Forget it.

Here:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/am...

For future reference.

Obama plans to impose penalties after the fact--i.e., if you use the E.R. and don't participate in coverage, he'll track you down and make you pay.

[mythyc]

214. the same f-ing mailer so why does she lie

and say she just "discovered" it this morning when an "anonymous" citizen gave it to her at a rally?

yeah, anyone who's followed the election knows immediately upon seeing the image on the mailer that it's a month old. It's been in blogs, articles, and on politico some three times. yet it "just so happened" to come to her attention today? please....

spare me. any last granule of respect I may have had for her after the charade of unity and mutual respect she gave at the debate, has evaporated. accuse someone of lying while and through lying. that's the kind of leader i want for my country

cough

[scheming daemons]

86. Revealing that not a single Hillbot can point out a single lie in the mailer....

....truth hurts.

[Maven]

88. See #111.

Not that it'll make a difference to a cult worshipper like you. (See? I can use derogatory names for candidate supporters, too!)

[druidity33]

358. #111?

is a nothing post. Where's the facts?

[Johnny__Motown]

87. Hypocrisy raises it's ugly head, again

She does nothing but attack and now she asks since when do democrats attack democrats

She clearly does not care what damage she does to our party

Her campaign is in it's death throws


From now on a vote for Hillary is a vote for a divided Democratic party

[GoldieAZ49]

89. I thought it was the NAFTA mailer

and she is accusing him of Karl Rove tactics.

I support Obama.


HOWEVER if his campaign tactics are not consistent with his message of raising the level of politics, he should be called on it publicly.

Now that would make for a good debate!

Let us see what the campaigns are doing after the candidates walk off stage.

[Seabiscuit]

CNN just showed her speech. She's genuinely angry and disgusted. Almost as much as I am.

Say goodbye to Ohio and Texas, BO, you lying hypocrite. Any Dem voter that hears of this and isn't a Repuke plant will not stand for it.

Remember, BO also stands for "Body Odor". And yes, BO, you're also stinking up the place. Go take a shower.

[Occam Bandage]

95. "Remember, BO also stands for "Body Odor""

That's it, the election's over. You win.

[yourguide]

110. I think her anger and disgust is directed at her advisors as...

this was her election to lose. she had it in the bag. Penn, wolfson, ickes, and HRCs own judgement stunk up the room.

[mythyc]

210. funny how hypocriticism works

you're outraged by his "alleged" smear campaigning and then go on to smear back in this ridiculous grade school manner?

ignore is such a lovely feature ...

edit: this is a response to seabisuit's body odor comment. so childish...

[michaz]

91. Is she for real? She knows what she is saying and that it is bunk!n/t

[amborin]

97. Obama supporters on this thread turn me against your candidate

your attacks on Hillary are way worse than any i've seen while skimming through right wing blogs

you guys have taken the worst right wing talking points, from the likes of O'Reilly---and use them to attack a brilliant progressive candidate

imagine if Hillary's campaign were circulating equivalent lies about Obama?

the vicious attacks on Hillary on this so-called 'democratic' website are appalling

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnsnake]

154. I've been convinced for a long time

They're just much more obvious now, and they're not being as careful to hide their true colors because this forum lets them get away with it.

[amborin]

218. not sure what you're replying to

was it some post suggesting i'm from the right wing?

better stop deluding yourself

i'm from the left most segment of the dem party

worked my tail off for kerry's campaign

so----if some of you obama supporters are so vile and misguided and ignorant...

then don't assume your candidate will win the GE

you can't without the dem base or hispanics either

[ProSense]

118. Oh please, see the remark above! n/t

[FedUp_Queer]

337. This is utter BULLSH*T!!!!

I am an Edwards supporter. After the last "debate," I thought I would be happy voting for either candidate. After reading what's being said here, I think I may just write in Edwards. But let me just say this: For ANYONE to say that Obama supporters have been any worse than the Clinton supporters in just turning people like myself off is just complete nonsense. I remember the sense of entitlement and the absolute unquestionable sentiments the Clinton supporters I ran into on here. I actually had the gall to ask a Clinton supporter why he supported her, and he actually balked at such a notion even insisting he didn't need to justify his support. I have NEVER seen that complete and utter arrogance from an Obama supporter. I have seen name-calling by each camp that expect to see and hear from GOP-ers. If you from the two sides cannot just grow up, then I don't want to vote for either candidate. I'm so disgusted right now. I mean...my God, plagiarism? Come the hell on!!!! Calling Hillary a racist? Nonsense. Grow the hell up both of you.

[bluestateguy]

98. I'm going to say this as gently as I can

But after listening to that tirade, I can reall see why so many people find her to be shrill.

I'm not saying I do, but I can see why others do.

[scheming daemons]

99. Remember when Bob Dole famously said "Stop lying about my record!" in 1988...

..in a debate against George HW Bush in the GOP primaries?

That moment was the end of Bob Dole's campaign.



Hillary is repeating history.

[DUyellow]

103. AGAIN... What was false about the mailing?

[Maven]

108. Post #111.

[BlackVelvet04]

104. preach it sister.....

he's a damn fake and a liar.

[Seabiscuit]

113. Mr. "My mother was a teen mother" (and I'm from the ghetto) - strikes again!

Hypocritical lying POS.

[ProSense]

121. "Hypocritical lying POS." You are acting like the biggest moron on the planet! n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

122. I's so glad she stood up and

called him on his shit. The silly obamababies think it's all about winning....the truth doesn't mean shit to them and they and their candidate disgust me.

[Faygo Kid]

231. Guess you will enjoy leaving DU on March 5, then.

It's over. You can be bitter or not, but that's your decision, and we silly obamababies (I'm a little long in the tooth for that description) will all be "just fine." Today was just one more indication of just how over it is.

0-11 with the closest loss by 17 points. You can curse all you want, but it doesn't change that fact about your candidate.

[HeraldSquare212]

109. The mailer says she'll force people to buy health insurance.

that's not misleading - that's a fact.

[Maven]

112. Wrong. It says she will force you to buy it even if you can't afford it

implying that people will have to pay retail insurance premiums, without mentioning that her plan subsidizes individuals based on their incomes.

[HeraldSquare212]

115. But she will - and she doesn't say how much it will cost, or at what income level

the subsidies will kick in. He's telling the truth - she's got a "plan" with a lot of unknowns in it.

[Maven]

120. Neither did Edwards. It would be premature, and too costly

to give concrete numbers before actually taking office and having the infrastructure of the federal government at your disposal to do research.

Not to mention that any such proposal would have to be approved by Congress.

The plan would HAVE to be affordable at every income level or it wouldn't work, just like Social Security. Truly low-income people would already be covered by Medicaid--which her plan would strengthen--so they wouldn't have to pay for anything.

She isn't forcing people to pay retail premiums they can't afford. The fact is, his mailer deliberately misconstrues her plan, "Harry & Louise" style, and in doing so poisons the well (in Krugman's words) for health care reform in the future, INCLUDING single-payer.

[HeraldSquare212]

127. But how can you ask people to agee to be forced to buy something,

without telling them what it will cost? You say it would have to be affordable - what does affordable mean? How would I know if I agree with what she considers affordable? she is forcing people to pay and she hasn't said what it will cost.

This is not about single-payer - that's an entirely different beast, and one I would much prefer.

[Maven]

139. Didn't you and I already have this discussion?

Single-payer is basically the SAME PREMISE.

You would have to raise TAXES by some amount, and then people like you would be saying "well he/she doesn't say if people will be able to afford the additional taxes!"

[HeraldSquare212]

144. Nope - this is private insurance

One of the good things about single-payer is taking all the different private companies and their overhead out of the picture. That's real savings there. and it would be government run, so people could have input into how decisions are made, what's covered, etc. You'd have to raise taxes, too - but there would be a savings in not paying premiums, both for individuals and employers.

[Maven]

146. WRONG. You would NOT have to buy into private insurance.

You can buy in to a public plan that is government run, similar to Medicare, more affordable than the private plans to drive costs down.

[HeraldSquare212]

152. But what does affordable mean? She has to address that, or it's a big loser for her.

So some of the plans are government run, and that's great. But what does affordable mean?

[Maven]

164. It means you can comfortably afford it. What does "affordable" mean when Barack says it?

Since "more affordable" is all he's promising?

You can't define "affordable" with a single number because what everyone can comfortably afford is different. Hence, subsidies linked to income.

[HeraldSquare212]

172. If someone doesn't agree with what he thinks is affordable, they don't have to buy it.

That's the difference.

[Maven]

174. He'll never succeed in making it affordable for everyone

without having everyone participate.

[HeraldSquare212]

184. But we don't know if she'll make it 'affordable' by forcing everyone to participate

and they'll be no check on it - 'affordable' or not, they'll have to buy it.

[flyarm]

180. you don't seem to have read the small print in obama's plan..he says if not enough people buy into

it or if voluntary doesn't work..it will become mandatory..having a hard time reading that?

[HeraldSquare212]

182. show me

[flyarm]

187. go read it yourself..i am not your mommy..and also read about the penalties he will impose

when you show up at the hospital if you opted out!!

read it your self..no one has to do that for you!

may i suggest, it would have made sense if you would have read the damn thing your candidate proposes before you commented with no knowledge of the plan Obama has put forward, that you think is damn wonderful.
fly

[Seabiscuit]

188. The Obamanoids don't even know what their candidate's position is on the issues.

For them, flowery deceitful speeches full of platitudes are all they can get their little minds around.

[flyarm]

192. "little minds" is an understatement!..eom

[barb162]

298. I have noticed the same thing over and over.

But they attack if you mention anything negative, even when factual, about him.

[qanda]

347. What's going to happen if the government decides that you can afford it?

Are they going to penalize you with fees? Seize your bank accounts? Come and take your kids? I'd really like to know because the government usually has a strange of way of figuring out our budgets for us.

[VolcanoJen]

111. Wow. I came thisclose to going to that rally in Cincinnati!

Glad I didn't, now.

[boston bean]

114. me too. what would have you done? nt

[VolcanoJen]

124. I probably would have started laughing.

That was my initial response watching it on television.

[cottonseed]

119. Which of her "voices" is this?

Soft Hillary doesn't work. Hard Hillary definitely doesn't work. This is just getting more pathetic by the day. Texas can't come soon enough. Over the course of 2 days, she'd gone from repeating the soft words of Bill's and Edward's to completely going berserk. Somebody close to her needs to pull her aside and say, "honey, it's over, it's time to go home".

[VolcanoJen]

128. Why is she acting like this mailer is new? It's been around since before Super Tuesday.

This reeks of a stunt... especially when she says, "Today in the crowd I was given two mailings."

Uh-huh. Sure.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Rinaldo]

136. I think she is saying that it has already been condemned by many

as a low blow attack playing on the Harry and Louise imagery that the special interests cooked up to defeat universal health care before. She is angry that they are rolling out another wave of attack ads using the same theme again, even after getting so much heat over it before (not all of which came from her campaign).

[VolcanoJen]

145. So every time you use two white people in a mailer...

... it's automatically Harry & Louise? Good gawd that's just laughable. I'm still cringing after watching that meltdown.

[Tom Rinaldo]

176. You must know enough about marketing to know how associations are evoked

You can believe that there was no attempt to tap into memories of that ad campaign if you want, but blatant specific similarities have been noticed and discussed in the media by many with no connections to or loyalty for the Clinton Campaign

[VolcanoJen]

194. Considering that Obama is an advocate for universal health care...

.. and the Harry & Louise ad was designed to kill universal health care, I guess I'm not getting the comparison.

[Tom Rinaldo]

204. If you believe Obama has a proposal that really delivers Universal Health Care

then you probably won't.

[ekwhite]

326. I believe that neither of their proposals is universal health care

Neither proposal measures up to countries such as France or Austria. The main difference in their proposals is that Clinton's makes healh insurance mandatory, while Obama's does not. Obama was contrasting his health care plan to Clinton's - that is not unfair at all.

Clinton could have gone on stage and calmly pointed out the inaccuracies in the mailing, if there were any, instead of accusing Obama of Karl Rove type tactics. Her accusations said more about her than they did about Obama.

[LWolf]

130. While I don't want her to be president, in this case, she's right. nt

[The Ghost]

133. Ugh

Who is all talk and no cattle again? That would be HRC. He was right there, next to her, Thursday night, and she had her chance, and in the same breath attacked him for not being genuine, and then saying she was honored to be next to him, then 2 days later saying 'Shame on Barack'. Which is it HRC? WHICH FUCKING ONE IS IT? She's a sickening human being. Her true colors show the more and more every day she gets closer to not being anointed Queen of America.

[ProSense]

135. Here is how her hypocrisy is working:

Yesterday:

Ohio:
Clinton 48% (-3)
Obama 40% (+3)

Texas:
Clinton 47% (-7)
Obama 44% (+6)

link

Today:

Ohio, Texas uphill climbs for Clinton:

The Illinois senator has mobilized his party's left wing, a big help in caucus races where party activists and fired-up newbies are key. And he's drawn crossover Republicans and independents to primaries in which they are allowed to vote.

<...>

Moreover, both states let people vote early. Obama, fresh from his Wisconsin victory on Tuesday, didn't wait for the dust to settle before exhorting Texans to vote right away. "I don't want you to wait until March 4," he said. Clinton, with a head start in campaigning in Texas, also appealed for an early lock on votes.

In the 22 contested Democratic primaries so far, independents made up 22 percent of the vote and they supported Obama by an overwhelming margin of 64 percent to 33 percent. Crossover Republicans, a far smaller percentage in the Democratic primaries, backed him 55-33.

Yet Obama has had the left flank covered, too: a 52-44 advantage over the New York senator among those who consider themselves very liberal.

[Schema Thing]

137. hah, it looks like she's holding up a copy of the Awake,

and it's "companion journal" the Watchtower. lol.

[MethuenProgressive]

140. Obama lying - again.

Funny how no matter how much he lies, how often he lies, no matter what he lies about, his flock just bleats in approval.
Barack Obama = Judas Goat.
(and no, that's not racist)

[JimGinPA]

141. Funny, She Always Tries To Be Sweet To His Face

[VotesForWomen]

143. but..but..Obama's different...he doesn't play that kind of stuff...more kool-aide please. nt

[polichick]

148. Wasn't she just saying how honored she was to be on the stage with him???

[cliffordu]

155. I WAS undecided, until this sniveling, second rate....

Crybaby performance by a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE?



What is she going to do when the Russian Foreign Minister says the US is preparing for war? Cry to the press that it's just a bunch of Right Wing smear tactics???

20 points in Texas, 15 points in Ohio.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dicknbush]

271. You are now authorized to remove Tavis Smiley with extreme prejudice for you are an Obamanable

Tavis smiley dared to crticise the LORD OBAMANABLE and shall be brought to justice in front of the High court of HOPE! You as a neophyte hypocrit have the opportunity to show you love and devotion to the LORD OF HOPE LORD OBAMANABLE ( all praise to his name...this must now be recited if the LORD OBAMANABLES name is mentioned) by seeking out the heathen Smiley and bringing him to kneel befor the LORD OBAMANABLE (praise his name)

[flyarm]

335. oh and what was it when he came on tonight to cry baby over what she said?

was he a bitch????????? or was he a richard..or dickkkkkkkkkkkk????????????

fly

[BeyondGeography]

156. So does this mean she's no longer honored to be on the same stage as Barack Obama?

I guess that was soooooooo Thursday night.

Your poll slip is showing, Hillary.

[AtomicKitten]

161. Sybil 2.0.

[Kokonoe]

158. What does it say on the bottom

This mailer will be seen across the world. BRILLIANT! Oy.

[rodeodance]

159. HAS ANYONE SOUNDED THE ALERT ON THE B**** WORD USED ABOVE BESIDES ME?—HRC IS

HAS ANYONE SOUNDED THE ALERT ON THE B**** WORD USED ABOVE BESIDES ME?—HRC IS A WOMEN PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE-THIS IS
WRONG!

[mtnsnake]

190. Sad, isn't it, rd

If these are the types of people Obama is attracting to our Party, then our Party's future is fucked forever.

[rodeodance]

197. You hit it on the nail. yes you have!!

[bigtree]

253. It feels like a movement which is very intolerant of dissent or challenge

It has a 'with us or against us mentality. I hope an effort is made to change that.

[AX10]

163. It's obvious that Obama is a fraud.

The fact that he used right wing talking points against HRC's healthcare plan tells me all I need to know.

[AtomicKitten]

168. "Shame on you?" Seriously?

[TwilightGardener]

177. Schoolmarm scolding--yeah, that'll sell.

[flyarm]

189. an sneak lying..wow that sells too huh? eom

[_Wayne_]

169. Cable news and the talking heads are already rehearsing their astonishment at Hillary's "anger"

Watch out. The media will call Hillary "angry" "enraged" "desperate."

But if a man did this, he would be "strong" "brave" "uncompromising."

[ProSense]

173. No whining, this is the piece Hillary's adviser associated with "Nazis." She has no room to talk:

According to news reports, the Clinton campaign lashed out at the use of the mailer in a conference call with selected reporters, complaining that the mail piece bears a resemblance to the "Harry and Louise" TV spots of 1993 and 1994 (pictured here).

One person on the call emotionally said the Obama mail piece was "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois." That outburst was quickly disavowed during the call by Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson, who said it is "not a comparison that (the campaign) would make." The unpaid health care adviser who made the remark, Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, later apologized. He sent an e-mail to reporters saying, "My passions overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate."

We agree that there is a resemblance between the photo on the Obama mailer and the TV spots. In those ads actors portraying a white, middle-class couple expressed grave concerns about how the Clinton administration's health care plan would affect them. The ads were part of a $17 million campaign by the insurance industry that was widely credited – rightly or wrongly – with contributing to the defeat of the Clinton plan, and the ads still anger many advocates of broader government efforts to provide health insurance. But so far as we can see, Obama's choice of images in his mailer has nothing whatever to do with the accuracy of the claims it makes, or the accuracy of what "Harry and Louise" said, for that matter.

link

[Seabiscuit]

191. Sexism still exists.

Hell, just read some of the Obamanoid posts in this thread. Some call her "shrill" and a "bitch".

[Hoof Hearted]

290. Schoolmarm. That's my personal favorite sexist bullshit tripe remark.

I say, good for Hillary.

[Seabiscuit]

332. I've also seen the word "shrew" strewn around here.

[Nedsdag]

185. Hillary's using the Howard Beale approach:

SHE'S AS MAD AS HELL AND SHE'S NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!

[LadyVT]

199. Good job, Hillary! Go Hillary!

[jackson_dem]

200. About time she called St. Obama on his stunning hypocrisy!

:clap:

[rodeodance]

366. Past time-way past time.

[workinclasszero]

201. Wow that first pic is scary!

Gee Hillary seems very angry. Like her handlers just told her she doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the nomination.

Get in front of the cameras and lose your temper more often Hillary, it will make the end come sooner rather that later!

[EndElectoral]

202. She's lied about NAFTA and it's documented..A corporate mandated insurance program is SICKO!

[quiet.american]

203. With no specifics given upfront to back her words, this makes Hillary look like she's in meltdown.

The words "downward spiral" come to mind....

[Baby Snooks]

205. And which playbook does she use?

"Enough with the speeches and the big rallies and then using tactics that are right out of Karl Rove's playbook, this is wrong and every Democrat should be outraged."

Of course she uses Mark Penn's playbook. Of course Mark Penn also writes the playbook for Erik Prince and Blackwater. You know, the private military of George W Bush. Of course we are not supposed to know that. Of course we do. We know a lot of things about Hillary Clinton and about Bill Clinton. Mainly that families that play together usually plot together. And the Bushes and the Clintons play together. Just follow the money trail. The one that leads into Bill Clinton's pockets. The front ones. And the back ones. And that is what every Democrat should be outraged about.

She is just mad that ten times more people show up at his rallies to listen to his speeches than show up at hers.

Maybe she should take the hint and take a hike.

[bunkerbuster1]

206. y'know, Hillary looks kinda hot when she's angry.

Good for her. Go down swingin', babe!

(BTW, I'm pulling for Obama to win, but I still love me some Hillary.)

[L0oniX]

229. If I were into S&M she'd make for a good punisher. Spank me, spank me I am a naughty boy.

[workinclasszero]

208. Give it up Hillary

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/hillary-clin...


Hillary Clinton Pretends She Never Praised NAFTA



Hillary Clinton has made statements unequivocally trumpeting NAFTA as the greatest thing since sliced bread. The Buffalo News reports that back in 1998, Clinton attended the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and thanked praised corporations for mounting "a very effective business effort in the U.S. on behalf of NAFTA." Yes, you read that right: She traveled to Davos to thank corporate interests for their campaign ramming NAFTA through Congress.

On November 1, 1996, United Press International reported that on a trip to Brownsville, Texas, Clinton "touted the president's support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying it would reap widespread benefits in the region."

The Associated Press followed up the next day noting that Hillary Clinton touted the fact that "the president would continue to support economic growth in South Texas through initiatives such as the North American Free Trade Agreement."

[alteredstate]

209. From "Living History"

"Creating a free trade zone in North America—the largest free trade zone in the world—would expand U.S. exports, create jobs and ensure that our economy was reaping the benefits, not the burdens, of globalization. Although unpopular with labor unions, expanding trade opportunities was an important administration goal. The question was whether the White House could focus its energies on two legislative campaigns at once . I argued that we could and that postponing health care would further weaken its chances." - Hillary Clinton

[Iceburg]

212. It's about time. Shame on you Barack Obama -- faux DEM!

[alteredstate]

215. See Post #209

eom

[Limelight]

213. After having seen the Ohio mailer my question is...

So what?! These are the same damn points he brought up straight to her face at the last debate! What the hell is her point here? "How dare you be consistent in your criticism of my plan where we've known from the beginning we have serious philosophical differences!"

This is just sad. She's set the stage. The debate in Ohio is going to be far more combative cuz her advisors say she has to, but the thing is it's going to fall flat, she's going to put herself out on that limb. The shrill harpy act is going to break the limb and rather than going out with dignity she's going to wind up humiliating herself and making the possibility of a unity ticket impossible.

[LadyVT]

219. The point is

that these are strategies used by the Republicans dating from the early 1990s, and Obama is using them. We are Democrats. We are supposed to be above such stuff. The picture on Obama's health care flyer is identical to the one put out by the healthcare industry in its successful attempt to derail healthcare. The words on the front are the same. Obama's campaign clearly knew they were doing this. The point is, Obama is RUNNING on a platform of honesty, saying his campaign would "never" engage in these very kinds of "smear" tactics.

And yet, here it is, a mailer doing exactly that.

[Divine Discontent]

222. you're kidding yourself if you even thought a ticket with the two was possible

no way in our current state in this country, with never having had anyone but white men typically over 60 run this country, are we going to elect a mulatto man who looks more black, and a white female as pres and vice pres. we need to have one of them break the stranglehold on the appearance, politically, that only white men can be president. I will be happy for either one, but I'm pretty sure I prefer Obama between the two, but as I've said, I prefer so many others, but this is what we've been given.

[Tarc]

216. Obama lies on the campaign trail and his supporters lie in the DU

Cant say I'm really surprised anymore.

[amborin]

223. some obama supporters' behavior is appalling

as someone posted the other day;

do some of obama's supporters think their vicious, sexist, misogynist attacks on a brilliant progressive will win the hearts of Hillary supporters?

Obama can't win the GE without the dem base

you better start controlling some of the sickening, immature, vile Obama supporters' attacks on this supposedly dem website, or you'll lose much support in the GE

[Divine Discontent]

225. I am for Obama

but that's only because I have to choose between the two left. And I concur with you, the vile attacks primarily by many Obama supporters makes me totally believe there will be many women (primarily) staying home because of these heavy attacks on her as a 'shrill harpy' and such. I believe we need new blood there, but, she would be fine, and to insist otherwise, and to imply that's she not progressive, is totally bogus and misleading, and hurts our party unity!

[amborin]

233. you sound like a mature, thoughtful person

hope your attitude catches on among others

[Divine Discontent]

236. I have a following

of ten... lol. I'm no big player on here. But, that was very kind of you to make such a statement, I am totally humbled.

Best wishes, and here's to making sure McCain does not take over for 8 years... Seriously, I will leave this country if so.

[Kurovski]

221. When the hell are Clinton and Obama gonna start slamming McCain instead of each other?

And I mean everyday. Bam, bam! Bam-bam-bam!!!

[Faygo Kid]

232. March 5

[quantass]

234. Agreed -- It's very WRONG that Hilary is in the business of Breaking the Party before the GE

Sometihng disturbing when democrats begin fighting each other prior to the important GE...save the negativity for the GOP but shamelessly Hilary cant resist and all it does is divide the party and making it harder for the ultimate goal of putting a democrat in the White House...so shame on Hilary!

[flyarm]

252. the only people i see breaking the party is obama supporters..

they have almost turned me into an independant..and just might yet!

Oh and i am an Edwards supporter who didn't know who i could support..but i can assure you..after seeing all the Obama antics..it won't be him..i will stay home i am afraid..
you Obama supporters have turned me off till i can't be turned on again!

Oh and i was a delegate for my state in 2004,..and a big $$ contributor to the dem party ..and i housed the field rep for 3 counties in my state in 2004 for 7 months and helped run a huge huge campaign..so i think i am not one who should have been turned off..and i am not naive to politics..

i paid the majority of an anniversary party for the oldest democratic womens club in the nation..that i am a member of..i am a DEC member and belong to three other dem clubs..and helped start a dem club in my second state that i live in ..in a highly republican area..and we now support over 400 members.

i was pivotal to getting voting machines audited in my county in my state and in my second state i was in the court room for 5 days to help when votes were swapped by the machines and i helped them get an audit..

I also with the help of Andy Stephenson trained people in my county work at getting the dre voting machines replaced with paper ballots.



i have never felt the democratic party so threatened like it is by the adolescence behavior surrounding Obama..the candidate can steer the way his supporters behave toward others..this behavior is abominable.

I will not only not put any monetary support toward Obama,..for the first time in my adult life..i will not lift a finger in this election. You obama supporters have finished my work with the dem party !
fly

[Quantess]

327. Cute name. What's your inspiration?

Welcome to DU, by the way.

[From The Left]

237. Waaaaaaaaaaaa

The Borg Queen sent her husband to South Carolina to play the race card against Barack Obama and say his campaign lead in the Palmetto state was akin to that of Jesse Jackson's campaign.

I think the time has arrived to Hillary to hang it up. She's gone off the deep end. Her husband, the philandering Billary promised he could deliver the White House to her if she didn't divorce his ass back in 1998 at the height of Monicagate but, that was a decade ago and Billary no longer has that kind of magical control over the Democratic party.

Since Super Tuesday, the American people have rejected the Borg Queen in 10 primary and caucus races.

She has a better chance of winning MegaMillions or PowerBall than winning the nomination.

[cloud75]

238. "it 's the silly season in politics"

no it's politics as usual so much for change Nobama!!!

[Fearless]

239. And then we'll go to Ohio, and New York... and then to Texas and California... and the White House..

WHOOOOOOOO!



Oh god I can't wait for this to blow up in her face...

Note to politicos: people don't like being told what to think or to feel like they're being repremanded by politicians.

[SKKY]

255. I was cringing while I watched this for that very reason...

...I was waiting for the Dean moment. It's close. I just hope I'm not there to see it happen live. I have a feeling it won't be pretty.

[stillcool]

241. Shame...

.......OR is it...I'm sorry, I apologize

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation...
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------


Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused. I made unfortunate comments that do not accurately reflect my bipartisan conviction, political philosophy, or most importantly, my opinions about Senator Obama and his historic campaign for the United States presidency."

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/in...

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-n... /
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008...

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12...

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/...

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-t...
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

[trevjr]

266. Too Bad

People complain that Obama is not tough enough, OK, so he uses the same tactics that Hillary has been using and now she is crying about it. I don't understand why the stories about HER plagiarism don't get more press

[ErnestoG]

242. Yes, Mr. Obama! STOP running an effective campaign, you cretin!

[Danger Mouse]

243. It's time for H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y.

And who dropped the 'change you can xerox' line at the debate, Hillary, hmm?
Keep in mind, you've been quite experienced at going negative and distorting and lying.

[ACanadianLiberal]

245. Finally, finally, Democratic Party is divided.

Thanks to uniter Obama. Let real uniter Gore to clean up the mess, now, start right now.

[Unca Jim]

246. Damn I'm tired of this.

Clinton tries a new tactic and Obama supporters jump on it. Then Clinton supporters jump on them. Then comes a rousing sock puppet fight that means nothing and get us nowhere.

Anyone else feeling Deja Vu?

I suppose it'll all be clearer March 5th.

[LadyVT]

247. Yep, totally sick of it.

[dicknbush]

265. A new Generation of Clinton Haters....Following in footsteps of the Original Clinton Hater

Limbaugh and his ilk!

True Obamanables will remove the folowers of Hopelessness

Tavis Smiley critisized Obamanable for not coming to a convention for Blacks and has been threatend with death Just like the Limbaugh crowd did to Clintons in the 90's great tradition you are carrying on.

[flordehinojos]

251. thank you hillary for standing up to the disengenuous obama tactics.

thank you for being direct. thank you for not skirting the issue. and thank you for throwing back in his face the petard he thought he could get away with.

[MrsBrady]

254. atta girl n/t

[Botany]

256. Hillary Clinton Plagiarized Stephanie Miller

"that are right out of Karl Rove's playbook"

For those with a pod cast you can go back and hear Stephanie Miller say
"right out of Karl Rove's playbook" when the bullshit plagiarism charge
came out.

I should know .... I wrote that line and sent it to Steph.

*****************

BTW Clinton can STFU about dirty tactics too ..... Her campaign has brought
up race, drugs, and religion in an effort to smear Obama.

[ErnestoG]

257. There's a shock

[Political Heretic]

259. LOL. She just solidified her loss.

[Bushwick Bill]

274. Bang. nt

[Politicalboi]

261. As Jay Leno said

Hillary is winning the state of denial. She needs to get positive and bow out if she can't win March 4th. Here is Mr.Empty suit's record for those who think he has no experience.
http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=ph5qz

[From The Left]

270. Leno Nailed It

The party is over for Le Hill.

[mahina]

272. could somebody please tell me the substantive points in the flier, that are wrong?

I just want to know the facts, not get yelled at. Really. Thanks.

[Bushwick Bill]

273. Way to kill goodwill earned in the debate.

You know, the way she went positive at the end of the debate, praising Obama, shaking his hand, saying she'll be OK regardless of the outcome, it's the people that she's worried about, all of that, I almost thought it was sincere.

This latest mudslinging is a hail mary pass.

I won't talk too much shit because I want Hillary supporters onboard, but I will pour a glass of champagne when she gets punched out in ten days.

Ten days till you're toast, Hill. Enjoy the spotlight while you can.

[bigtree]

275. you probably thought she was giving a valedictory

Shocking, to find her still fighting for the nomination.

[bleowheels]

279. Thank you Candidate Zig Zag.

One moment she is nice and complimentary and the next moment she is angry and upset. Please Hillary, pick a direction and stick with it. It is really making you look bad.

[happygoluckytoyou]

280. GOP AT WORK------>

HERE WE GO AGAIN... THE GOP SLIME MACHINE TRYING TO GET OUR TWO GREAT CANDIDATES TO HATE EACH OTHER..

WE HAVE 2 GREAT CANDIDATES AND THE MCCAIN MACHINE IS AT WORK TRYING TO DIVIDE OUR GREAT PARTY...

B A D G U E S S ........ WHICHEVER CANDIDATE WINS IS GETTING MY VOTE...

EVEN IF YOU TELL ME THAT OBAMA HAD A BLACK BABY
EVEN IF YOU TELL ME THAT HILLARY IS A BITCH

IT DOES NOT MATTER..... I AM VOTING DEMOCRAT ALL THE WAY.....
SO ARE MY KIDS AND MY FRIENDS.....

IF YOU WANT TO BEAT THE DEMS AGAIN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RIG THE F&%^$( MACHINES AGAIN

[mahina]

281. Big Mistake.

Bye Hill.
It's not just what you do but how you do it that changes what people think and do. You took us all (women) back a step here. This was always the argument used against women, that our emotions would drive us, not rational thought.
She may or may not be right about the flier, I don't know. But she lost this round big.
Whoops.

[dicknbush]

285. BS you are brainwashed and juding by your name a Hawaiin I think sou you are

Holding out for Obama because he is from Hawaii..Just a guess

[mahina]

286. Think whatever you want.

I think Barack Obama is the best hope to bring America back for the people who built it. I won't guess why you support Hillary. Respect for others begins within. Good luck and God bless.

[dicknbush]

283. THis may be an old story but you know it is going to make a huge comeback the day after Obamanable;;

is chosebn to run for the Dems. The Obama family obviously has a problem with patriotism but mor importantoly as an elected official he is ignoing a code in relation to how you show respect during the nationl anthemNow for a regular guy citizen no big deal but for an elected representative well different story.


http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Obama_doesnt_put_hand_ove...

[ingac70]

284. "Patriotism"...

"is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde

[dicknbush]

287. "Respect"

George William Curtis



A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle.

[Sadie5]

294. My family is sick yo death of NOBAMA

Yeah...I admit that I pilfered that name from another post. If Nobama is the candidate we(our family) feel the Democratic party will have let us down and will not vote for a GOP operative(Bama) who will be as bad or worse than Bush has been. I guess nobody noticed that during the debate,the part about insurance that Nobama brought up Mitt romney's plan in Mass. as a model. Tax returns were being seized there to pay for Mitt's plan, is that what you want for the rest of the country. I have to say that I will be disappointed in Edwards if he gives his delegate's to Nobama.

[ProSense]

288. Hillary is demonstrating that she is more despicable

than the Repubs

[Az_lefty]

291. go away Hillary, your becoming a fucking embarrassment.

[rox63]

293. I read the mailer at one of the links provided upthread, and I don't see anything untrue about it

And trust me, mandates are not working out that well here in Massachusetts. Although there are fewer uninsured people than there used to be, there are still plenty who can't afford decent coverage under the supposedly universal plan here. And now they are losing their personal deduction on their state taxes because they can't afford insurance. How dumb is that?

[Sadie5]

295. rox63

You have the roles reversed, read my post above. Better yet, don't take my word for it but go look at the video of the debate and you will see that the Mass. plan is the model Bama is using. He says it perfectly clear that he likes the Mass plan as a model.

[rox63]

357. The MA plan mandates that eveyone buys health insurance, or they will be penalized

Obama has clearly said that he disagrees with mandates (except for children), and it is not part of his plan. Hillary's plan mandates everyone buy in, or they will be penalized, just like in MA. The results of teh MA plan have been mixed. Some people I know have finally gotten health coverage, while they used to be uninsured. But there are plenty of others here who still can't afford to buy into the plan. Don't forget, this plan was originally the spawn of Mittens. He tried to institute it without the funding it needed. Partly because of that, he left the state with a huge deficit. The funding has been found, but the plan still needs a lot of improvements.

[Sadie5]

367. rox63

But...do you not understand that he still mentioned it as a model. Irregardless of what 'mittens' did in Mass, BO still mentioned it as a plan to fashion his HC policy. I can also imagine BO would not stop at starting a HC plan and grabbing tax returns that many families depend on each year to pay off heating bills from the winter. You jumped off the subject which is BOs HC plan that he intends to pattern after the Mass plan, not mittens grab from the indebted at tax return time,that's another story.

[canadian_is_cold]

296. This is old news, as to why HRC is so 'upset' about it now is anyones guess...

The mailer she is holding in her hand is this same mailer reviewed by factcheck.org after one of her camp said Obama's crit was as "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois.".

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/harry_louise_ag...

This mailer, and the others are nothing more than the same stuff BO has been pointing out throughout the campaign. http://factcheck.barackobama.com /

It seems to me that these two candidates, as equally matched as they are, standing on almost identical platforms are merely desperate to find, and publicize event he smallest differences in their message.

As far as I can see the only campaign that have made completely false and or outrageous statements is the Clinton camp, from slanderous claims of plagiarism. To comparisons of OB to the Nazi's or OB to Rove-Bush.

Is this yet another act of desperation, or a calculated plan to create controversy.

[socaltennisguy]

297. Either address the substance of the charge or SHUT UP!

Hillary Clinton and John McCain have something in common. 
They are slippery politicians who use distraction and
obfuscation to confuse voters.  John McCain responds to the
New York Times article as if it were just a story about who
he was or was not having sex with.  He did not deny having
criss-crossed the country in private jets owned and/or paid
for by lobbyists and and businesses with business before his
committees ... his campaign is being run by lobbyist and yet
his denials only focus on his honor ...
wife-in-tow-non-denial of charges only provable if we could
somehow extract his thoughts and intent from his brain and
examine them under an electron microscope.  

Senator Clinton rails against the Obama campaign and plays
the Rove-card but she doesn't address the fact that On
November 1, 1996 According to UPI, then First Lady Hillary
Clinton, during a trip to Texas "touted the president's
support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying
it would reap widespread benefits in the region."  The
very next day the AP quoted Mrs. Clinton as saying "the
president would continue to support economic growth in South
Texas through initiatives such as the North American Free
Trade Agreement."  Senator Clinton reiterated this in
her memoir.

Mark Penn, Senator Clinton's polling and campaign guru, runs
a pro-CAFTA company and Senator Clinton continues to vote for
more of these asymmetric trade deals, most recently with Peru
and has the audacity to proclaim herself the one who is going
to fix NAFTA while campaigning through rustbelt towns in Ohio.
  SHAME ON YOU HILLARY And a piece of advice.  Get REAL and Do
a mea culpa ... Throw yourself on the mercy of the court of
public opinion or continue to live with the twin albatrosses
of that Iraq Vote and NAFTA hanging around your neck. 

[cliffordu]

303. I was wondering:

Can we call her Shrillary now??

[SaveOurDemocracy]

307. I'm wondering how long you'll be here. n/t

[cliffordu]

312. I was wondering....again...

Why, if you're running for President of the United States of America, you'd feel the need to tell ANYONE they need to be ashamed of themselves......SHAME??????

It is EXACTLY that kind of non-professional emotion based response to what she perceived as an unfair attack that will give the Republicant's all the ammunition they need to create just enough....doubt.....among the voters next November.

Let me shout:

This is not a dress rehearsal. If one cannot maintain an air of cool professionalism and quiet steely resolve under the most egregious attacks, then one will NOT become the President of the United States of America. Not while the REAL Karl Rove is still alive.

Ask Howard Dean what one lapse in that cool resolve gets you. His little hog-caller moment might very well guaranteed Bush the Presidency. Again.


My little troll expresses the complete and utter disappointment I have...as I said in another post I was undecided until her lapse into SCOLDING another candidate. IT simply is NOT acceptable at this level of play.

I used to believe that Hillary was going to be the best thing that could happen to this country. After her complete waste of the INCREDIBLE momentum and the 20 point lead she had when this election season started DUE TO HER OWN HUBRIS, finally down to today, I have to say I have never been this disappointed in a DEMOCRAT since Gore let himself get slimed out of the Presidency.

Now, what do you mean I won't be here, is there a RULE I violated somewhere??

[Seabiscuit]

362. I predict he won't last beyond his 2nd post.

[George II]

305. Have you seen the mailings in question? WHAT is wrong with them?

[pingzing58]

309. I can't stand Obama slipping into an ebonics accent because it's not him nor was he raised that

way. If he's elected Prez. we'll see how he changes his accent to accomodate his audience. Minorities have done it since the 18th century. The opposite is true as in the case of Obama. He's starting to sound more like Jesse Jackson every day; or, should I say like Harry Connick Jr. in Independance Day a caricature of Black preachers. I'm just saying.

[cliffordu]

317. Well, let me just say...

Fo' shizzle my Hizzle

What the hell do you mean??

He drifts in and out of a slight drawl, but ebonics?? Nice troll, though.

[NOLALady]

321. Took a wrong turn, huh?

[cottonseed]

331. An unfortunate choice of words.

[pingzing58]

348. Isn't ebonics and accepted dialect? I thought so that's why I used the term.

[unapatriciated]

311. Here are the mailers and an article that compares the two plans,

It does seem that he fudge a bit when stating that she would penalize those that could not afford to buy into the plan. Her plan does have safeguards and government subsidizes for those who can not afford it,
Tho she didn't publicly denounce NAFTA till 2007, here is an article I found that suggest she did not approve of it from the start.

mailer on NAFTA:
http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/02/1obma.pdf
Article on NAFTA
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/17/hillary-clinton... /

mailer on Health Care Plan:
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/ObamaHealthCareMail...

Article comparing plans:
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN236397072...

I personally believe her plan is better than Obama's and think that he indeed mislead the voters of Ohio.

edited for a link debunking Clinton quote that NAFTA was a "boon" to the economy.

http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2008/02/17/ny-newsday... /

Obama and Clinton are very much alike so I think it is time to stop the bashing.

"The simple fact is, Clinton and Obama champion similar policies and have nearly identical voting records. There are real differences between the two, but by accusing each other of crypto-Republicanism, Clinton and Obama are writing scripts for The Theater of the Absurd"

http://www.newsweek.com/id/103203/output/print

[intaglio]

340. Thank you for a post of sanity in a madhouse

[casus belli]

315. I love the "meet me in Ohio" line...

Kinda reminds me of high school a bit. "Meet me after school and I'll teach you a lesson", "Meet me at the busstop and I'll show you what I'll do".

Too funny. As an aside, I wish she would have used the opportunity to explain what exactly was inaccurate about the flyer rather than just stating it was false.

[CadenBlaker]

322. Oh my...

The hypocrisy is deep here. The reason I've lost ALL respect for Clinton is her Rovian like tactics against Obama. Bill and her supporters like the idiot from the other day at her rally are acting like desperate children. I've seen that same behavior on here and I am starting to think operatives are planting posts here also.

[krabigirl]

325. I think it's great!!!

[cottonseed]

329. Laying the groundwork for her campaign's upcoming mailers.

I'd venture to bet some really disgusting mailers will be leaving the Clinton campaign offices shortly. She's now captured the issue. I hope this is seen for what it is when their own cluster mailing begins. Now that will be Rovian.

I hope I'm wrong.

[reformedrepub]

333. There is a reason why the Teamsters endorsed Obama

Its NAFTA plain and simple. Unions are lining up behind Barack. The Clintons and their republican cronies gave us NAFTA. Good Union jobs are disappearing at alarming rate, thanks to NAFTA. She supported NAFTA and sat on the board of WalMart. nuff said.....

[factanonverba]

341. Jobs are going to China

not Mexico and Canada.

Next NAFTA was a Bush 41 item that yes Bill Clinton did push through with amendments for labor and environmental protection. Undo NAFTA and the jobs still head for China. Get a clue!

[Raejeanowl]

334. It's About Time She Took The Kid Gloves Off n/t

[Steely_Dan]

336. More schoolyard crap....

from both sides. Haven't all of you had enough? It's too bad we couldn't elect an adult to run the country. She said this...he said that...my candidate is better than your candidate...my daddy can beat up your daddy. You ought to be real happy. No matter who gets the nomination, you're going to get the candidate you deserve.

What a bunch of morans!

-P

[kristopher]

338. [b]What is the lie in Obama's mailer? Everything in there was said at the debate[/b]

She didn't call him out then, what changed?

[LaurenG]

345. Have you seen this? Shame on Hillary Clinton as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

She is making herself look like an idiot.

[donheld]

346. What a bunch of fucking babies!

Everything Hillary has ever accused Obama of doing she's much more guilty than anyone else.

[Iceburg]

350. Shame on EVERY American who does NOT support Universal Health/nt Care

[Myrina]

352. Can I get an H ? Y? P? O? C? R? I? T? E?

Jebus, Hillary. Give it UP already.
With every passing day you're becoming more and more of a distasteful harpie.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

363. THAT'S MY GAL....YOU GO HILLARY!

[JDPriestly]

368. This ad hurt Obama.

I know someone in Ohio who was undecided a week ago but who voted for Hillary because she was so mad about the misrepresentations about Hillary's healthcare plan in that brochure. The brochure did Obama a lot of harm in Ohio among undecided voters, especially Edwards voters. Edwards plan was/is very similar to Hillary's.

Obama is ahead. He did not act like a winner when he sent out that brochure. He talks big about getting along, but in the end he plays dirty. Shame on him.