Forbes says FL and MI strengthened their positions. Really?

[madfloridian]

I guess we are in the spin cycle, where anything goes.

Jumping the Line

However, with the election so close (and given the fact that the Democrats do not want to be seen as disenfranchising two critical electoral college states) both Michigan and Florida now seem to have been strengthened by recent events. Howard Dean has already discussed re-running the primaries. If such a re-vote takes place, the states will have greatly increased their power. They will both be able to play a vital role in tipping the balance and deciding the Democratic winner.

Even if they do not re-run the vote, and the race goes to a deadlocked convention, Michigan and Florida will be on everyone's minds. Hillary Clinton, who effectively ignored her party's threats--and then won the uncontested elections in both states, as hers was the only name on the ticket--will be pushing to seat the states' delegates. If there is a convention battle, this will be the critical issue, one that could decide who will be the party's nominee.

Michigan and Florida have been held up as offenders, willingly breaking the rules and possibly costing their voters seats at the convention. But in the end, they have shown that the two political parties do not have the power to truly threaten any state. Rather than being sidelined from the nominee selection, Michigan and Florida delegates have instead managed to put themselves right in the center of the action.

I have some land for sale here in Florida. It is about one foot under water, but it is not swampland. Would you like to buy it?

A Supreme Court precedent and two recent Florida lawsuits say you are wrong, Mr. Spivak of Forbes.

Supreme Court precedent and Bill Nelson's lawsuit give nod to DNC

Nelson v Dean:

Judge "Hinkle said the Democratic National Committee has a right to set its schedule for primaries. The national party penalized Florida because it broke party rules by jumping the state's primary date ahead to Jan. 29.

To rule otherwise would be a free-for-all with all 50 states, Hinkle said. He gave the plaintiffs the choice to re-file under the voting rights act against the state of Florida if they choose."

The Supreme Court precedent:

The 1981 Supreme Court decision for the case Democratic Party of U.S. v. Wisconsin, 450 U.S. 107 clearly states that the Democratic National Committee can make and enforce the rules on the delegate process.

"The State has a substantial interest in the manner in which its elections are conducted, and the National Party has a substantial interest in the manner in which the delegates to its National Convention are selected. But these interests are not incompatible, and to the limited extent they clash in this case, both interests can be preserved. The National Party rules do not forbid Wisconsin to conduct an open primary. But if Wisconsin does open its primary, it cannot require that Wisconsin delegates to the National Party Convention vote there in accordance with the primary results, if to do so would violate Party rules. Since the Wisconsin Supreme Court has declared that the National Party cannot disqualify delegates who are bound to vote in accordance with the results of the Wisconsin open primary, its judgment is reversed.

It is so ordered."

There was another lawsuit against the DNC by a Tampa Democratic activist. It was likewise dismissed.

DNC sanction ruled "intra-party" dispute.

TAMPA - The first legal challenge to the Democratic National Committee's refusal to seat Florida's delegates to the party's national convention next year was thrown out of federal court Friday.

Calling the matter "an intra-party dispute," U.S. District Judge Richard Lazzara concluded the arguments made by Tampa-based Democratic voter and political consultant Victor DiMaio contained no legal basis for challenging the national party. Lazzara wrote, "The Supreme Court has consistently recognized that national political parties have a constitutionally protected right to manage and conduct their own internal affairs, including the enforcement of delegate-selection rules and the decision as to which state delegates it will recognize … ."

I do not think they strengthened their positions. Here in Florida I keep thinking what a role we would be playing now if the original primary date had held, early March.

Sometimes it is time for bravado to cease.

[Demeter]

1. Specific Party Members in Mich and Fla Look Like the Fools They Are

and if there's anything like intelligence left in the grassroots, these people will be relieved of all future resposibility and power.

The power of Florida and Michigan stems from the populace, not from the local party apparatchiks. But heads will roll.

[Egnever]

2. Thanks Mad

The more they try to do this the worse it hurts them I believe.

[madfloridian]

3. Trying for the FL delegates to count toward the nominee is wrong.

I don't care if they get to attend the convention as a group, but their voices should not be heard toward the nominee.

[Rageneau]

4. Florida Democrats had their votes STOLEN by the Repukes.

It was NOT the decision of the Democratic Party of Florida to move its primary up so far that it violated DNC rules and got hem excluded.

That was entirely the decision of the REPUBLICAN-dominated Florida Legislature. It was they who moved the Primary to the too-early date. Dems could not stop this, though they tried.

Republicans want to disenfranchise Democrats. Unfortunately, so do many other Democrats.

As I understand it, all the Dem candidate's names were on the ballot, and all candidates except Obama abided by the no-advertising rule. So it was a fair and square primary and it should count.

The only reason it doesn't count is because the Florida GOP -- with the help of the DNC -- has pulled a fast one on the national Democratic Party.

[madfloridian]

5. You just incurred my deep wrath. Florida was in on it all the way.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[madfloridian]

6. I just saw CNN cover it. She really is planning on those delegates.

No one person has the power to stop her from doing it...but I hope collective consciences of Democrats who know there must be rules will win out in the end.

[anigbrowl]

12. Yep...but they won't be helaf to hand her a win.

Some (deluded) Clinton supporters seem to think Florida will give their candidate 210 delegates - forgetting that none of the Democratic contests are winner-take-all. Hillary's possible net gain from including the results of both the Florida and Michigan primaries is about 57 delegates, give or take a few.

If the race were called today and those delegates were included, Obama would still be in front. And you know what? I think it's going to stay that way. So there'll be no last-minute victory from one campaign using blackmail to threaten that two important states will go red. I think those delegates will get seated alright...and their votes won't make any big difference to the outcome.

[new_chum_Dave]

7. Seating Florida?

I believe that seating the Florida delegation would alienate much of the coming generation of Democratic voters. This may seem a weak compromise from Floridians' point of view, but I think that only Florida's Super delegates should be seated, with the same number of votes they usually would have as Super delegates. Their status does not depend on a primary.

[madfloridian]

8. I may be wrong, but I don't think FL's 22 superdelegates will count either.

There are a lot of people trying to find legal loopholes, but none make sense to me. The superdelegates for Hillary were major players in pushing the earlier primary date and then blaming the DNC for "disenfranchising" them.

Florida trying a new angle now....make our superdelegates count.

Jon Ausman is combing legal aspects.

Instead, he's combed the rules of the DNC and found what he says is a violation: The DNC committee that penalized the state for leapfrogging its primary ahead of Super Tuesday did not have the authority to break the rule that says DNC members and Democratic members of Congress, so-called superdelegates, shall be seated as delegates. Florida's Sen. Bill Nelson and Rep. Corrine Brown are among Florida's 22 superdelegates who can support whomever they chose.

As I posted above, the court gives the DNC the authority. More about it and more at the link.

Not so fast, says the DNC. Florida has just two options for reinstating its delegates: hold a caucus before June 11 to allocate delegates or take the dispute to a DNC committee later this summer.

The caucus ain't gonna happen. Here are two posts that prove who the state bosses are.

Bill Nelson speaks for Florida Democrats..."Absolutely not" to caucus.

And this one from HEP blog:

Nelson and Levin say no revotes in their states.

[yourguide]

9. OMG

so the Dem establishment that are RESPONSIBLE for their citizen's votes not counting now want their own votes to count as Superdelegates??? HAHAHAHAHA. WOW!

May the people of Florida oust ALL of the politicians both Dem & Rep for allowing this to happen.

[madfloridian]

13. You are right.

They don't want a revote...well, I don't either especially. But they want the votes of the superdelegates to count. The whole thing is a mess because some powerful Democrats overplayed their hands and won't admit it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

10. They could have held theirs on Super Tuesday and been quite relevant

But no, they just had to push the envelope.

Foolish.

[KamaAina]

11. Who cares what Forbes thinks?

It's a GOP rag which once referred to "the People's Republic of Hawaii".

So why take seriously anything it says about internal Dem party politics?

[Cha]

14. We still have to know what's out

there even if it is from steve forbes. Hawaiian Landslide

[paulk]

15. because it fits an agenda

[f the letter]

16. Amen n/t

[madfloridian]

17. Someone send this to Hillary.

In case she decides to go to court.