If Hillary wins the nomination by getting FL/MI delegates, and a

[x-g.o.p.er]

majority of super delegates to secure the nomination, but has less popular votes and has won less states, will the party revolt, and will there be a 1968 type scenario at the convention?

I would like to think not, but I can see this turning ugly, even violent, just based on the tone of what I've seen here on DU.

Passion quickly gives way to anger, and I can see this ending very badly.

And if Hillary does get the nomination that way, does she win in November or will the party be too damaged to win?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. What You Need To Understand, Is That The Overwhelming Majority Of The Public Wouldn't Give A Fuck.

Sometimes, we get so wrapped up in the dramatic tone here, and forget that we make up about 1% of the electorate. The general public, probably wouldn't give much of a rat's fat ass.

[CoffeeCat]

9. There are a lot of Democrats...

...who care this year. They care very much.

DU might represent 1 percent of the electorate, but turnout in our Dem primary has
increased by 100 percent in nearly all states. In some states, that increase is
more than 100 percent. It's important to note that these increases are not
seen on the Republican side.

Democrats are engaged. They are pissed of by Bush. They have awakened from their
apathetic slumber. Furthermore, young voters--who normally are not involved--are
coming out in record numbers. People who have never voted before--are suddenly
participating.

I was a precinct captain in Iowa, and I had a list of "pledged supporters". They
were people that volunteers had called, and were self-identified as "likely to
vote in the caucuses". Our turnout increased 100 percent in my precinct, and I chucked
the list after the first 20 minutes because nearly half of the participants were
new voters who had never voted before. They weren't on any list.

People do care a great deal. There would be a revolt. No doubt.

[x-g.o.p.er]

13. Disagree on that

There are a lot of people fed up with things, and the primary turnout on our side reflects that. I think if Hillary got the nomination in the way I described, it would be a huge buzzkill for all those new voters.

Then I would agree that most people wouldn't care.

[mkultra]

17. every dem i know

KNows about this crap.

The answer in short is YES. There will be revolt.

[stillcool]

24. crazy about those record breaking...

turn-outs in state after state, isn't it? What's wrong with those people?

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.--Bob Dylan

[yourout]

2. If this happens you can kiss goodbye to a whole generation of voters....

The excited 20 year olds in Obamas camp would quickly be the disinterested after seeing that it's business as usual.

[saltpoint]

3. I'm thinking a contested convention is possible but unlikely.

There will be a solution found to disputation and a ticket-topper will be chosen before summertime's first pitcher of iced tea.

Well, before its second pitcher of iced tea.

[Benhurst]

4. She'll only be able to pull off a "coup" if neither manages to win

a majority.

If such is the case, the public won't give a rat's ass whichever of them wins.

It may not anyway.

The public was far more upset over a fixed American Idol contest than it was over two stolen presidential elections.

[CoffeeCat]

21. The general public....

...was not aware, and is still not aware, that two elections were stolen.

However, Democrats get this primary.

They are engaged and paying attention. If anyone tries to steal it, cheat
or usurp the will of the people--they will see it and understand it in
full technicolor.

They will revolt by staying home on election day.

Count on it.

[Benhurst]

26. "The will of the peope." Which people?

I fear it's too late for either Clinton or Obama to score a knock-out punch.

Either way, it's going to be the will of some of the people which will triumph. And the way things are going, the other party is going to cry, "We was robbed!"

Will Democrats stay home? I don't know. Perhaps many will. If so, they will be cutting off their noses to spite their faces. A McCain victory and losses in the House and Senate are hardly going to advance interests of either the Clinton or Obama people.

[CoffeeCat]

5. I'm convinced that Hillary...

..is only keeping the "Super Delegate" and "Michigan/Florida" arguments alive, to
give her supporters some additional hope that she can keep this thing alive.

There's no way in hell that she could pull off changing the rules about Florida
and Michigan. The rules were set--FL/MI would not count because party leaders
did not follow the rules.

There's no way in hell that the Super Delegates will usurp the will of the people.
The Super Delegates will fall in line with the candidate who has the most pledged
delegates and popular votes. This is a moot argument. Clinton knows this.

She's just rattling everyone, and keeping these slivers of hope alive--to keep
her supporters on board, and not defecting to Obama.

The result of her playing dirty with MI/FL and/or the Supers would result half of
our party being so dispirited and disgusted with Hillary--that she would lose the
GE. She cannot win, after totally pissing off half of the Democrats--and all of
the new Democrats that Obama has brought in to the process.

She knows this. She's kicking up dust (with FL/MI/Supers) to cloud the fact that
she's probably going to lose.

[x-g.o.p.er]

7. Good argument, but

if you've worked your whole life to get to the one goal you wanted, and were this close, and saw an opportunity, you wouldn't?

If I was her, I probably would.

[CoffeeCat]

16. There is no doubt...

...that Hillary Clinton has had her sights on the White House for years, if not
decades. She is a talented politician and she is highly intelligent.

No doubt that this is something she wants.

However, cheating and changing the rules (Florida and Michigan) is not the way to
reach your goals. Ignoring the will of the people in order to achieve longstanding
political goals (Super Delegates) is not the way to reach your goals either.

She can try both, but it only makes her look like a blood-sucking, amoral vampire
who cares more about her own dreams, than she does about "We The People".

As I originally stated, she knows damn well she can't do either of these things.

None of it will happen.

And also, any person who looks at the situation in Florida and Michigan as
an "opportunity" is the same kind of person who looks at a bank and sees
an "opportunity" to enrich themselves by robbing it.

[x-g.o.p.er]

18. I think she thinks

she isn't changing the rules. I honestly believe she thinks she's doing what's right.

Granted, it's what's right for her, and not necessarily the party, but she doesn't believe she's in the wrong on this.

I'm with you in that I hope she doesn't go this route, but I think she will.

It will be great theater, but terrible for us in the party.

[madrchsod]

25. they have planned this since 1990/92

obama threw a wrench into the machine....

[tyne]

6. Well

"If Hillary wins the nomination by getting FL/MI delegates, and a majority of super delegates to secure the nomination, but has less popular votes and has won less states, will the party revolt, and will there be a 1968 type scenario at the convention?"

IMO, there would not longer be a dem party.

What you describe won't happen, though. The leaders of the dem party know it would be suicide.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. If Dean goes against his word, and counts FL, I swear to God I'm going to have a whole new very low

opinion of the Democratic Party. What bullshit. If they were going to not count them, why are they changing now? If they were going to change their mind, why the F### did they tell everyone their votes wouldn't count? More people would've shown up if they had thought their votes would've counted. This is really sickening.

[x-g.o.p.er]

12. And the vote totals would have differed...

I'm not saying Obama would have beaten Hillary, but at the very minimum he would have narrowed the gap, as he has in every other state where she had a big lead and he campaigned in.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Yes tho it really makes no difference if the votes had been more, less, gone over, not, or whom

they'd have gone to. It matters that they either lied, or were disingenuous. Either way says some very ugly things about our Party. If they don't leave things the way they had announced they were, I'm going to be really livid. I have friends who did not vote because Dean assured Florida that their delegates would NOT be counted. This is really beginning to get ugly, the way we're being pushed around and manipulated. :(

[x-g.o.p.er]

19. Very true

Good points.

[peace13]

10. If Hillary gets the nomination by breaking rules

that were agreed upon prior to the election I think you can kiss the party goodbye. People are attracted to CHANGE because they are sick of politics as usual. Say what you mean and mean what you say Ms. Clinton. If the young people of this country have their votes nullified you will see a revolution when Clinton has to set the draft in motion to man her war of choice. Peace, Kim

[Renew Deal]

11. The black vote wouldn't show up on election day

And neither would a large part of the activist vote. Hillary would be down a few million votes instantly. She is unelectable as it is, so this would end it.

[theHandpuppet]

22. To be quite frank, I'd completely understand that

They (black voters in America) have been jerked around so much for so long I'm surprised they haven't thrown both parties under the bus.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. Take the number of States out of any equation

Kerry won 19 States, Gore won 20 States (eacxh also won DC). If either had won one more State they would be President. Bush won 30 States and 31 States the two times her ran. North Dakota does not equel California.

And even if Florida gets no delegates, 1.5 million Democrats did vote there, which I suspect is almost as many of not more votes cast in the total number of Caucuses held in the entire nation so far. I think it proper for Super Delegates to at least consider that fact when they make their decisions.

[x-g.o.p.er]

23. Okay, take them out, that's fine.

Obama still would have the popular vote and the majority of pledged delegates

[theHandpuppet]

27. Yes, so far...

And I agree that "number of states" is not a true indicator.

Let me propose another scenario while we're musing the possibilities. What if Hillary Clinton were to have a majority of the popular vote and Obama a majoirty of the delegates. What then?

[x-g.o.p.er]

28. Hilaary goes all out to seat FL/MI,

and convince superdelegates to side with her.

[theHandpuppet]

20. As a Hillary supporter, I'd be disappointed to see that happen

That is, whoever ends up as the candidate should pull the most delegates and most of the popular vote. Number of states really doesn't mean anything -- you honestly can't compare winning Idaho to winning New York or California.

i've also not heard a convincing argument for the "superdelegate" vote and think that system should be abolished.