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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:26 PM
Original message
Ickes: Obama's wins "Irrelevant"
Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obamas Victories Irrelevant

A top Hillary Clinton adviser on Saturday boldly predicted his candidate would lock down the nomination before the August convention by definitively winning over party insiders and officials known as superdelegates, claiming the number of state elections won by rival Barack Obama would be irrelevant to their decision.

The claims no doubt will escalate the war of words between the campaigns, as Obama continues to argue superdelegates should vote the way of their districts. But the special class of delegates, which make up about 20 percent of the total delegate haul, are not bound to vote the way of their states and districts, as pledged delegates are.

Obama leads handily in the pledged delegate count and has won more states but trails Clinton in superdelegates, making them potential and controversial deadlock-breakers if the race ends up a dead heat come convention time.

Harold Ickes, a 40-year party operative charged with winning over superdelegates for the Clinton campaign, made no apologies on Saturday for the campaigns convention strategy.

Were going to win this nomination, Ickes said, adding that they would do so soon after the last contest on June 7 in Puerto Rico. Youre not going to see this go to the convention floor.

Ickes predicted Clinton and Obama would run neck and neck in the remaining states and that there would be a minuscule amount of difference between the two in pledged delegates.

But he said superdelegates would determine the outcome and side in larger numbers for Clinton, as they have a sense of what it takes to get elected.


more:

http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/02/16/top-clinton-a...
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh no he didn't!
I don't fucking think so. Sorry, but if EITHER candidate attempts to snatch this via means of SDs, then they'll demonstrate that is more important to them to be the 2008 Democratic Nominee than President for the next eight years. I may vote for them, but many will not, and perhaps rightly so.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. they seem to be operating
in completely different universe than the rest of the party
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Slow down; look at the link
it's foxx news for chrissake.

Next, they will say Hillary is pregnant with Ted Strickland's baby.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. It's a FOX link
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 05:44 PM by B2G
Because it's being reported there and elsewhere.

Are you disputing that he said it?>

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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. Yes, everything foxx reports is not a report
but a script. foxx is not American.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Click on the link below this one then
It tells the same damn story. Sheesh.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Here's another link for you
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. How much party history do you know about?
Google "Ickes and Roosevelt" for some info on his father.

Here's a good place to start.

Even though Clinton (Bill) fired this Ickes in '96, Hillary chose him to help her win her senate
seat in NY.

Ickes is that important in the party. The name Ickes still walks softly and carries a big stick.

If he thinks the party is in jeopardy, he'll use that stick, and the party insiders will listen to him.

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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. I think the SD will pull out of this, too afraid to deny the candidate
who actually wins their win. They won't want to face the wrath of people who will tar and feather them, me included.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. HC camp thinks we are stuck on stupid

They ain't seen a March until they see the March they will see if they try to steal this election.
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CalGator Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. to be fair, there are a lot of stupid people out there
Luckily those with college degrees overwhelmingly favor Obama.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know
how all of this is going to play out but I hope it does not have the appearance of backroom deals and arm twisting. Calling Obama's wins irrelevant is pretty crass and makes it appear that their votes never really counted for much.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:58 PM
Original message
technically votes don't count
Just look at FL and Michigan. Did they count. No., does anyone see the Obama people getting bent of shape for that. No.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. technically votes don't count
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 06:00 PM by CatnHat
Just look at FL and Michigan. Did they count. No., does anyone see the Obama people getting bent of shape for that. No. (mistake posted twice)
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Well, it's important to them for you to vote, so that they can claim to
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 06:38 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
run a democracy, and reproach Chavez and other countries in South America now leaning to the left, together with the rulers of the Moslem world, for not being democratic. It's very neat, really, when you think of it.

We have a similar system in the UK. Of course, the media play a key role in choosing the New (putative) Labour leader, as they used to with the leader of the genuine Labour Party. It's a "fait accompli", and we just read about it afterwards. No, actually, Brown's coronation was reputed by the media to be by public acclaim, well in advance of the ceremony - as sometimes happens with the canonisation of saints. Our own dear noise machine.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fuck 'im and the dlc
stick he rode in on..we'll see about that, mr ick.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Could they just show a bit MORE CONTEMPT for the voters in the Democratic Primaries and
Caucuses? Is that even possible.

Disgusting.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Seems he just handed Obama a campaign point
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 05:38 PM by BeyondGeography
Hope he puts it to good use with all of those irrelevant voters between now and June 7.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Yes, because Obama knows
how to convey to the American Public what a contemptuous statement that is towards us..from harold ickes.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. the gift that keeps on giving!
you know davey boy is jumping up and down with joy!
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. LOL...excitable guy that he is
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Screw ClintonInc and all its shameful nastiness.
I'll be glad when her sleazy campaign is relegated to the dirty dustbin of American electoral history.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. here here
even though I don't dislike Mrs. Clinton her "surrogates" are another story...Matt Taibbi wrote an article a couple of weeks ago where he described Mark Penn as Jabba The Hutt and all that was missing was the bowl of frogs at his side for snacks
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. there's an old saying " show me who your friends are...
and I'll show you who you are. Nuff said.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Dick Morris...
case in point
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:47 PM
Original message
It can't happen too soon..the
months are dragging on with all their baggage of contempt.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. They're still claiming it's inevitable!
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southern_dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ickes: We'll destroy the party to get the nomination
Shouldn't come as a surprise.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Harold Ickes, another reason to NOT vote for Hillary
I'm sorry but this is fucked up.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clinton's "Insult the Voters and their Record Turnout and Unprecedented Enthusiasm" Strategy.
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 05:37 PM by VolcanoJen
Keep it comin', Howard!!

And Howard... why did you, as a superdelegate and DNC Member, vote to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates in August?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. And, let us not forget...no decision until JUNE
(CNN) "One of Hillary Clintons senior advisers said Saturday on a conference call with reporters that the New York senator would have the nomination nail(ed) down after primary season voting ends in June, when Puerto Rico weighs in.

At or about, certainly shortly after, the seventh of June, Hillarys going to nail down this nomination. Shes going to have a majority of the delegates, Harold Ickes said, thanks to a combination of pledged delegates awarded through primary and caucus votes, and superdelegates Democratic elected officials and party leaders who are free to choose any candidate they wish. Ickes is himself a superdelegate.

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe immediately responded to Ickes, saying in a statement the Clinton campaign was attempting to have superdelegates overturn the will of the Democratic voters, or change the rules they agreed to at the 11th hour in order to seat non-existent delegates from Florida and Michigan.

The Clinton campaign should focus on winning pledged delegates as a result of elections, not these say-or-do-anything-to-win tactics that could undermine Democrats ability to win the general election, said Plouffe..."

link: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/16/clinton... /
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. Wisconsin doesn't matter. Puerto Rico matters
Check. Will move Puerto Rico into the "you count" column.

:popcorn:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. No one who matters cares one bit about what Harold Ickes says.
Lanny Davis, either.

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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. The entire Clinton campaign is corrupt
Win at all costs will be a win at too great a cost, destroying our Party and alienating all the new voters who have turned out to support Obama.

Imagine the GOP being stupid enough to let Bush Sr. steal the election through back room deals at the convention over Reagan in 1980.

The GOP would have lost the opportunity to rebuild their Party, and would have been probably been ousted from power after just one term.

Thats what Hillary's naked ambition for power is going to cost the Democratic Party.

Our best chance to cement a permanent Democratic majority that might last for 20 years.

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Alhena Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. The DNC knows Obama is far more electable- he WILL be the nominee
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NJObamaWoman Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Go ahead and then I wont be a Dem any longer. Independent here I come
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DB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. We can add Ickes to Bill as the best spokespersons for Obama.!!!!
Keep it up boys, you're doing great!
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Can't click the link. My mouse won't work after stepping in fox shit. n/t
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Here's another link for you
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TheUniverse Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. If Hillary Clinton wins the election through a superdelegate coup, I may never vote again.
What would be the point of voting if I knew the election was fixed.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. The clear message from the Clinton campaign is: if you don't vote for us, your vote SHOULDN'T count.
n/t
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. The mask slips, and we see the true face arrogant entitlement and win-at-whatever-cost corruption
The flip side of what Ickes is saying is just as important as what he actually said: the clear implication is that if the Clinton's can't have the nomination, the nomination isn't worth having and to hell with the Democratic Party and the rest of the country. In other words, if it takes splitting the party in two and giving the Oval Office to McCain in order for the Clinton's to maintain control over the party machinery, so be it.

I always suspected as such, but never had proof. Now I do, because Ickes never utters ONE WORD without vetting it through the Clinton's first: this is coming straight from them, make no mistake about it.
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NMMatt Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. So what makes this hack think he will be able to turn the tide on delegates AND super delegates?
I mean really? Currently Obama has created a sizable 140 delegate lead in pledged delegates. Clinton had a lead of 100 in super delegates, which has shrunk to something like 70 - depending the count. Unless they can over come the sizable pledged delegate lead, it is difficult to see how they keep a lead in super delegates. How does he think they will be able to convince over half the remaining uncommitted party officials to support the primary season loser?

Sorry Ickles... the ONLY way you will win this thing is to win a sizable majority of the oustanding pledged delegates, and then you still have to win more than half of the remaining super delegates.
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NMMatt Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. "Have a sense of what it takes to get elected" - I call bullshit
If they had any sense of what it takes to get elected, they would have won this primary season election. Good luck with that argument in June.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. hmmmm......
If my vote is considered 'irrelevant' then I guess Hillary won't need it in November. And if she gets this nomination through chicanery like this she won't get it, either.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. Vile. (nt)
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
43. Sounds like another Electoral College. Belt and braces. A failsafe.
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 06:22 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
Except in advance! You've been done like a kipper!
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. I really wish someone would ask Camp Hillary how she plans to win
the GE without states she or one of her mouthpieces has declared irrelevant.
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