Do We Really Want Change (From The Clinton Years)?

[Dinger]

I don't know about you, but those were damn good years. Yes, if elected, Hillary will be president, and not Bill, but it sure is nice how it worked out that Bill's role had to be diminished. Guess people didn't want any reminders of all that nagging peace and prosperity.:-(

[monktonman]

1. cant stand the after taste.

The Clinton years are like a good wine that leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Blah.....

[IndieLeft]

16. Doesn't that mean we'll have another Bush afterward?

[monktonman]

19. Yeah Prolly....

I gave up drinking wine because of the hangover so I guess your reply works.

[eleny]

2. Those days are over - NAFTA made sure of that

The challenges we face are undoing some of the policies of the 90s and what they wrought.

[KittyWampus]

12. Clinton's Banking Deregulation sparked the conflagration we're dealing with now

[amborin]

55. bill fought for side agreements

protecting labor and the environment

fact those were ignored is not bill's fault

[monktonman]

61. Veto

[tabatha]

3. The Clinton years did not include

the results of Clinton's NAFTA program. That impact has mostly been felt in the Bush years.

Add that to the impact of the war, voted by Clinton, the public has been screwed.

[THUNDER HANDS]

4. do you want your kids to have it as good as your parents had it

or do you want them to have a better life than you had?

I prefer to look forwards, not backwards.

[JanusAscending]

5. YES !!!

n/t

[hiaasenrocks]

6. Yes, from the Bush-Clinton-Bush- (possible) Clinton regime. Yes.

[Avalux]

7. Absolutely. VERY ready to move forward and leave the Clintons and Bushes behind.

:hi:

[BeyondGeography]

8. Do we get a tiny China and $20/barrel oil back, too?

Really, that's just nostalgia. We're eight years into the next decade already. Time to move on for Democrats.

[shaniqua6392]

A few months ago,

you would have never heard anyone bashing Bill Clinton around here. But, that has all changed. This is the psychology of Obama fans. I am not sure why. It certainly is a damn shame. I remember those years fondly.

[monktonman]

27. The Clinton years were great for me.....

I had a great job, made good money, bought a house etc....

NAFTA took my great job DIRECTLY (company moved operations to mexico)
My good money went away and my house....what house?

So yeah, if this were 1996 I would have told you Bill Clinton was god on earth
but after losing my job and watching my neighbors go broke I'm not so sure anymore.

And yes...she IS running on her husbands record.

[eleny]

29. There have always been people here who pointed out his bad policies

Nafta, consolidation of the airways, banking as was mentioned above and the welfare reform. You know - the policies designed to kiss Republican and corporate ass.

I was among those people and there were more than a few. Your assertion is flat out wrong.

[bvar22]

58. That is just not true.

Many of us here have never been shy to point out that Bill Clinton was a wonderful Republican president.
We are well aware of Bill's DLC connections, and how he sold out the Working Class.

*Banking, Lending, Energy, and Accounting deregulation under Clinton is DIRECTLY responsible for ENRON (and other CorpoScams) and the current Mortgage and Housing Bubble crisis.

*Telecommunications Act 1996 DIRECTLY responsible for Media Consolidation (and FOX News).

*NAFTA (thanks, Bill)

*Welfare Reform (sic)

Peace & Prosperity Clinton style....No Thanks.
The families of the 1/2 MILLION Iraqi children that died due to the Sanctions during the Clinton administration would argue about the PEACE part.

[misanthrope]

62. I've maintained for years...

...Bill Clinton was the best Republican president of my lifetime.

[Jed Dilligan]

9. They were lousy years for me

Without a boom, the Clinton policy of ignoring or punishing the poor while trying to strengthen the middle class is doomed to failure.

[Big Blue Marble]

10. Why do think that if Hllary were elected,

our country would return to the 90's?

[goodhue]

11. Most certainly

[LakeSamish706]

13. I don't know, but NAFTA seems like a pretty big thorn in everyones ass to me. n/t

[amborin]

26. don't blame nafta on Bill

it was reagan's idea....written up by Bush senior, salinas and mulroney

business * nafta pushed it through.....it was a juggernaut

don't blame it on bill...that's a very superficial take on nafta and not accurate

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. facts

[eleny]

34. He never fought it but rather he embraced it

There's nothing superficial about speaking out against his signing on to nafta.

Sounds like yet another "mistake" a Clinton won't admit.

[amborin]

40. a superficial take

that's the surface take on it....but the underlying reality, the truth, is way more complicated....nafta was over 10 years in the making and in the passing, it started in the early 80s

[bvar22]

59. Bullshit.

NAFTA was (and STILL is) one of the sacred cows of the DLC.
Bill supported NAFTA, championed NAFTA, and signed NAFTA with a smile.

[Armstead]

14. The Clinton Years were like a Sugar Rush

feels good temporarily, but is unhealthy and leads to a crash afterward.

[moosen]

33. sounds like a GOP talking point

[Armstead]

35. Of course -- I'm a right-wingher with a Wellstone icon

:eyes:

[The Traveler]

43. Talk about cognitive dissonance

A right winger with a Wellstone icon. Yer killin' me, man!

:rofl:

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. Many of the Obama people are too young to know anything about

the Clinton years. Anyway the whole notion of change & hope is a semantic prison, impossible to argue against, so whoever takes advantage of the slogan first is the winner.

[DJ13]

21. "Many of the Obama people are too young "

Im 50, and I do NOT want a return back to the Clinton years.

They were the second worst thing to happen to the average American (Bush is #1).

NAFTA, banking deregulation, MFN status for China, the end of welfare, all were "highlights" of that supposedly "progressive" President, Bill Clinton.

No more Clintons, thank you.

We cant afford them.

[amborin]

28. please read some history

those are superficial and inaccurate takes on the clinton years

bill did not dream up nafta, reagan did

bush senior,salinas, mulroney wrote it up...pushed it into a legislative package...usa*nafta pushed it through....it was unstoppable by the time it hit bill's desk...a juggernaut

[totodeinhere]

36. He could have vetoed it.

It was unstoppable by the time it hit bill's desk...a juggernaut.

He could have vetoed it. And if Congress did an override then Bill could not have been blamed for it. But he caved and signed it.

[amborin]

41. it was way more complicated than that

[totodeinhere]

47. It's not complicated at all.

Actually it's quite simple. Clinton has his staff write a veto message. Then he gets out his pen and signs the veto message. That's all there is too it.

Then Congress either overrides the veto or they don't.

[Recursion]

46. Moreover, he didn't have to push it

This wasn't something Congress foisted on him; he spoke for and defended NAFTA constantly.

[amborin]

56. he pushed for side agreements

protecting labor and environment

[Armstead]

37. YOU should read some history

Bill Clinton aggressively pushed NAFTA against the objections of many Democrats.

Clinton had the abililty to stop it if he had chosen to. But he WANTED IT, and he actively pushed Democrats to support it.

[amborin]

42. nafta's passage was much more complicated than you state

you need to read the history of the agreement

[Armstead]

48. I've read all about it going back to origins post WW2

[bvar22]

60. I don't have to read history.

I was there.

Do you remember the debates with Ross Perot?
I do.

Bill Clinton CHAMPIONED NAFTA.
Ross Perot warned America AGAINST NAFTA.
("That giant sucking sound")

NAFTA was part of Bill Clinton's fucking campaign in 1992.

[monktonman]

63. Yes again, I rewmember as well.....

"that giant sucking sound" where did that come from?

[misanthrope]

65. Same here. I remember it vividly...

...I was already livid about George H. W. Bush's tantamount "no comment' to China on the Tiananmen Square massacre.

Then Clinton stands with that same Bush and snickers at Perot on national television as the third party candidate tries to warn the American public about NAFTA. That's when I knew Clinton wasn't for me.

[apnu]

17. Yes! (with more points)

Yeah I want change. However just because Hillary Clinton is president it doesn't mean we'll automatically roll back into the 1990s.

It will be a different era, with a different President dealing with very different issues than the 1990s.

However, the Clinton's politics of the 1990's will be the same should Hillary Clinton be elected. And I, frankly, don't want that.

I will acknowledge that Hillary Clinton will be a better President than John McCain, so I'll hold my nose for her like I held my nose for Kerry.

[caseycoon]

18. I certainly DO want a change! n/t

[Skidmore]

20. You can never repeat the past, only imitate it imperfectly.

I have no desire to return to the last century when we can be building a future to meet the needs of the new one.

[Akoto]

22. Even if the Clinton years were paradise for all, which they weren't ...

There's no guarantee whatsoever that Hillary = repeat of the 90s. She is a different person from Bill and would no doubt run things differently than he did.

As well, the now long existence of NAFTA and lack of a dot com boom is going to put a dent in ever repeating that kind of economic prosperity.

[surfermaw]

23. You got that right, has been selected on m any polls as one of the 5th Presidents off all times

[OzarkDem]

24. Those were good years, happy to repeat them

and I would much prefer it to choosing an untested candidate who could lose or compromise himself.

[Dinger]

32. Yes, And Furthermore All These So-Called "Obama republicans"

have a free-pass on voting for Obama, since mccain is going to be the repuke nominee.

[amborin]

25. anti-Hillary folks have swallowed republican talking points

the bill clinton years were good:

generalized prosperity for most.....a crucial item

budget surplus.....not the staggering deficit we've now racked up

peace

the anti-Hillary crowd are either moles....or, they've swallowed republican rhetoric

the Clintons have a demonstrated record of good deeds and good results

anti-Hill crowd say Bill passed Nafta.....guess what? Reagan dreamed up Nafta, and Bush senior, Salinas and Mulroney wrote it up....Business *Nafta pushed it through, and it was a juggernaut...don't blame bill for that....same with China and the WTO.....there were good reasons for bringing China into the fold.....good geopolitical reasons.....no one is putting a gun to anyone's head....simply don't buy products made in China....there are PLENTY of alternatives

i'm as pro-labor as anyone can get....but the real enemies to labor are right here in the US....the NLRB for starters, the foreign auto manufacturers......and unions themselves have made mis-steps along the way.....

[totodeinhere]

30. Here's my list.

NAFTA
Welfare reform
DOMA
DADT
DMCA
Rwanda
Bombing the aspirin factory
...and a lot more that I won't list now.

Clinton was a conservative DLC Democrat. With Obama we will get the first genuine progressive that we've had in the White House in a long time.

[Tatiana]

64. You forgot media consolidation.

The Telecommunications Act of 1996 was the first major overhaul of United States telecommunications law in nearly 62 years, amending the Communications Act of 1934, and leading to media consolidation. It was approved by the 104th Congress on January 3, 1996 and signed into law on February 8, 1996 by President Bill Clinton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996

[hfojvt]

38. the Clinton years were not as good as the hype

I never prospered in the Clinton years. I worked 3 years as a temp and heard that a temp agency became America's largest employer and the real value of the minimum wage did not go up.

[Dinger]

39. One More Thing . . .

Wasn't there unprecedented growth in the economy? Seems like I remember something about that. That's a good thing, right?

[MadBadger]

44. How bout, we dont want to settle for the Clinton Years, we want something BETTER.

[Dinger]

45. I Actually Like That Answer

Even though I will vote for Hillary next week Tuesday, your comment made me smile.:)

[Dawgs]

49. As far as I'm concerned, the Clinton years gave 12 years of Repub. Congress and 8 years of Bush.

That's not something I want to go through again.

[cottonseed]

50. The thought is a security blanket for sure, but it's time to move on.

First off, Hill ain't Bill. Second, that Change that Obama supporters are clamoring about include change from the Clintons. I'm not sure if Hillary even realizes that. Third, Obama's time will be even better than Bills -- may even be transformative.

[NorthernSpy]

51. the mills are gone, thanks to NAFTA and the other trade deals...

So no, those weren't "damn good years", and no, I don't want to give the Clintons another chance.

[housewolf]

52. The premise behind you question

is that it is possible to go back. to those years.

The sad fact of the matter is... it's impossible to go back even to yesterday, much less to the 1990's. There is no un-doing what has been done. Those days have been lived out.

Even if Hillary does win the election, it will not be the same. It won't be those heady days where the cold war has just ended and Americans are optomistic for an era of peace and prosperity. Those days are gone. It won't be the renaissance time of the internet and wireless technology changing all of our lives and opening those new possibilities. Those days are gone.

There will be other days and other times, with new innovations to come, but it won't be the 1990's (with their positive and negative aspects) again, ever.

The problems we face today are far more daunting than those faced by Bill Clinton in 1992.

[Yael]

53. Because economically and globally nothing has changed from then

We will all just go quietly into the time warp, the twin towers will be there and we can all invest in dot coms and talk about how NAFTA will be a BOON to the economy.

I can't WAIT to pick up some Enron stock. :woohoo:

[no_hypocrisy]

54. If NAFTA, GAT, and the Telecommunications Bill were revoked,

I could be happy.

[robbedvoter]

57. I'd be extatic if we got to the Clinton years levels - rights, peace, economy

really really fast.
Also, everyone seems to say Hillary is to the left of Bill and less compromising.

[jackson_dem]

66. Prosperity doesn't matter. What matters is change for change's sake

Who cares if the economy is mediocre? We will have HOPE and a new face in the White House! That is what really matters. I will still have my lattes. Working folk? Let them eat cake with HOPE written on it!