Dean: "The voters have to speak first before people like me get involved "

[madfloridian]

I have seen so many different positions attributed to him. Here is the meaty stuff from his interview with Chris Matthews on Super Tuesday. It was pretty jumpy because Matthews kept interrupting and trying to jerk Dean around as he always does.

But there were several significant statements made.

Hardball transcript February 5

First, Dean's statements about the credentials committee. Remember he is constantly being interrupted.

MATTHEWS: Now, your party has punished Michigan and the state of Florida, the parties in those two states, for moving up their primaries beyond what they were supposed to. Are you going to let the Clintons dictate and say that those delegates are going to count? Because Senator Clinton is saying that the Florida votes and the Michigan votes will count, despite the fact that her rivals didn‘t even file because they followed your rules in Michigan?

DEAN: Well, that‘s going to be up to the credentials committee, which will be actually elected by Democrats all over the country. So that decision will be made way down the road. But I think we ought to see what the voters say before we go that far down the road.

So as usual Chris Matthews misinterprets.

You said that Michigan shouldn‘t count and Florida shouldn‘t count, and now you‘re letting Hillary Clinton say they should.

Did you notice? That is NOT what he said. Again he is interrupted trying to make that point.

DEAN: No, what I said was that that‘s up to an elected committee of Democrats. I have 25 people on the committee. There are going to be about 160 or 155 on the committee that will be elected by Democrats all over the country. They‘ll make that decision much, much closer to the convention.

I thought that was pretty clear. Dean gets to pick 25 people and he explains how the others are chosen.

On Ed Schultz, I think today or yesterday, Donna Brazile was equally firm. She said Howard Dean had many people on his bench, and she was one of them.

Matthews asked if he would just pick a prez and VP. Dean explained some more, and then he said he'd given up watching TV during the primaries..I know the feeling.

DEAN: Well, if I were going to have a discussion like that, it probably wouldn‘t be on television. Those kinds of things—of course, those kinds of discussions go on, but this is not the time for those kinds of discussions. The voters have to speak first before people like me get involved and try to put together things like that. I mean, let‘s listen to the voters before we—you know, on television everybody handicaps everything. I‘ve sort of given up watching television in between these elections because people blab and blab and blab. But the fact is, the voters—it‘s the voters‘ turn.

Dean made one more statement I much appreicate...still being interrupted constantly.

DEAN: It‘s not the pundits‘ turn. It‘s not the pollsters‘ turn. This is the voters‘ turn. This last month-and-a-half and this next two or three months coming up, this is the voters‘ turn. It‘s time for us to shut up and listen to the voters, and that‘s what I‘m going to do.

I do not believe that so many primaries in so many states would actually be having a voice if steps had not been taken against MI and FL because they leapfrogged. The decision would have been made early on.

Unfortunately that power play by FL and MI will define his chairmanship while the voter turnout and the rebuilding of the state parties will be pushed off to the side.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Dean's contribution will not be forgotten. Obama is running a 54 state campaign and winning,

if that's not a tribute to Dean, i don't know what is.

Obama is contesting every state. And winning because of it.

[Cha]

31. So blissful that

this is happening in this way!

[madfloridian]

2. He said a new generation is taking over.

"DEAN: And I—you know, this is a transitional election. A new generation is taking over in this country. I think it‘s a great generation. It‘s a good thing. And I think that‘s going to help us in the general election."

[democrattotheend]

4. I think we know who he's rooting for

even though he can't say it publicly. If anyone else were running the DNC, I'd be afraid of Obama being pushed out, but for Dean to do that would be to betray everything he stood for.

[joshcryer]

5. But you see, he didn't rule out seating those delegates.

Amazing isn't it?

Dean is a genius!

[madfloridian]

7. They can be "seated" but not counted toward the nominee

.

[joshcryer]

27. If the superdelegates chose to seat them they can easily count toward the nominee.

[madfloridian]

29. That ain't gonna happen.

Not this time. I think too many have the message.

[joshcryer]

36. Yeah, because Hillary will drop out at March 5th.

[ZinZen]

16. Dean has always had his finger

on the pulse hasn't he? I have been commenting that change is occurring because of a generational shift in our country, and they are not happy with business as usual.

[PassingFair]

32. Wow Mad, you have more hearts than anyone I've seen...

You must be doing something right....

[madfloridian]

33. I am amazed and not sure why.

Never got them before. Maybe the FL stuff. Most people have me on ignore.

[mzmolly]

58. I think you have about $500 dollars worth of hearts MF?

You deserve every one.

Thanks for continuing to inform us about Florida and other issues.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

37. its a generation where we can be proud to be democrats

remember how we were treated like criminals for so many years?

Obama handles this sort of thing with grace, not rubbing it in the face of the opponents.

You'd think he was a southerner!

[crispini]

3. Ah no. Dean will be remembered for the good work he has done.

I think MI and FL will turn into BIG FAT NON-ISSUES because they won't matter.

[joshcryer]

6. Yup, they're irrelvant, but continued to be parroted for the controversy that they create.

Basically it's all a bunch of talk about nothing.

[bigbrother05]

8. Really enjoyed how Wolf took down Clinton's spokesperson

(can't remember her name) earlier this evening. She was going on about their wins in FL and MI and Wolf basically asked her if she was seriously going to try and push that line. When she tried to say how important those elections were, he laughed her off and moved on. When even CNN is blowing you off, it's over.

[madfloridian]

9. I missed that. Thanks for sharing.

That's a shame she tried that. Was it Anne Lewis? I thought I saw her on TV but had the sound muted.

[bigbrother05]

10. No, think she was her press sec'y when she was 1st Lady nt

[madfloridian]

11. Do you remember what hour it was on?

I would like to find the transcript. I hate it when they spin like that.

[bigbrother05]

14. Think it was just before 7 est.

[madfloridian]

17. Found it. She was definitely claiming FL and MI.

"BLITZER: What do you want, as somebody who clearly supports Hillary Clinton, to happen with the voters, the Democrats, in Michigan and Florida who were stripped of any delegates because they moved up their primaries before Super Tuesday?

CAPUTO: Well, I look -- Hillary Clinton has been very clear about that. I mean, she went to Florida and thanked them for their votes.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: She didn't campaign there and he didn't campaign there. And his name was not even on the ballot in Michigan.

(CROSSTALK)

CAPUTO: Right, because of the Democratic National Committee situation there. But I think that, look, we just have to wait and see.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Do you want them to have caucuses now, those two states? Because it's unlikely they could organize a primary, given the expense.

CAPUTO: No, I think they have spoken. I those states have spoken.

BLITZER: Well, they haven't really spoken because no one campaigned there. Her name and Dennis Kucinich's name were on the ballot in Michigan. Barack Obama's name was not even on the ballot.

CAPUTO: But she won those states.

BLITZER: I know, but that's not exactly fair, considering his name wasn't even on the ballot or that they couldn't -- none of them could even campaign there.

(CROSSTALK)

CAPUTO: That's a Democratic National Committee process issue.

BLITZER: But you can't say she won those states.

CAPUTO: But she did win the states."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/12/sitroom....

I do think they plan to contest it.

Interesting.

[bigbrother05]

24. The transcript doesn't do it justice

Seeing it live was way too funny. Hope it makes it to you tube.

edited to cover my ignorance

[madfloridian]

54. I will keep an eye out at You Tube and check CNN videos.

Thanks.

[Cha]

59. Wow! Yeah, thanks

for sharing, bigbro!

[knitter4democracy]

13. So, when we swing red, it won't matter in the GE?

I'm up here in Michigan, and I can tell you that a lot of people up here are hurt and very, very angry. If McCain's the GOP nominee, many moderates I know are saying they're going to vote for him because at least the GOP didn't entirely disenfranchise us. They even held a debate here on our economic issues. Where were the Dems?

In the convention, sure, we won't count. We won't be there at all, since they took away our hotel rooms and all. For the GE, how in the hell am I supposed to get someone to vote Dem when our own party took away our voting power? It's going to be a much harder sell than usual, and McCain's considered moderate up here and is pretty well-liked.

[madfloridian]

15. I think FL and MI should stop whining. FL lost hotel rooms also.

The whining is getting tiring. Hold your state officials responsible. Ours are going to feel the heat.

[knitter4democracy]

18. Oh, we are. The county party people are pretty darn upset.

Still, the DNC knew that the GOP was only taking away half of the delegates. Why in the heck would state congressional Republicans vote to change back the primary when they came out ahead in the deal? That 30 day thing was a crock. There was no way the Republicans (who control the state senate) would even let it out of committee. A couple of state reps tried their darndest, but it didn't go anywhere.

So, two swing states were disenfranchised. All to punish the party higher-ups. Not smart.

[madfloridian]

20. Well, don't get too upset. Not good for the health.

I know, trust me. I have been pushing the truth while my state tells lies.

[knitter4democracy]

51. I hear that.

My state party lies, too, and it's enough to make me sick. Many in our county party are just as bad. I need to find a way to balance all this and not get sicker than I already am. *sigh* Ideas on how to do that?

[fadedrose]

22. We were NOT disenfranchised..

Our moronic state leaders - governor, senators, representatives, etc., were told in advance that the election was illegal based on Dem Party rules. They thumbed their noses at Dean and said, "the hell with you."

I voted Uncommitted and resent very much the fact that Hillary would get all the votes. I would have voted for Edwards.

We will probably never know the truth about who created this unethical SCAM of the people of Michigan to help the DLC put in its chosen candidate. These professional politicians MUST HAVE KNOWN that it was UNFAIR not to have ALL of the candidates' names on the ballot but knew the way to get around it with Hillary ending up getting the delegates.

So many people who would have voted for Edwards or Obama didn't even bother to vote thinking that their votes wouldn't get sorted out for their candidate anyway.

Time to vote Michigan leaders out...the final insult to injury would be to count the delegates as Clinton's when nothing would be more unfair to the people.

[knitter4democracy]

52. No, Hillary shouldn't get the votes.

I think what we really need is a caucus in May if we're going to count at all. That way, we can make sure everyone's on the ballot, not just Hillary. I honestly think this was a DLC scam to make Michigan go for Hillary without her having to campaign here, and it really ticks me off. The GOP started it, and you'd think our party leadership would be smarter than to fall for some GOP scam but apparently not. We need to get rid of those idiots.

[Dr.Phool]

23. I had a long conversation with a friend this evening.

She's running for a state senate seat in Florida. I'm just doing some advisory work for her campaign.

She was all bent out of shape at Howard Dean for not counting our votes. I said we don't deserve to have our votes counted. Our Democratic state legislators fucked it up in the first place. If they had fought the change, or at least tried, we would not have been penalized! One state Democratic state legislator opposed the change, and he was laughing, saying we have to show some opposition, even though he was one of the sponsors of the legislation!

I told my friend, that in effect, if we get our delegates seated, we're penalizing the other 48 states who played by the rules. The rules were designed to prevent just the clusterfuck we're seeing now.

The Florida Democratic Party has been the laughing stock of the country since the 2000 election, and I'm glad I'm not a part of it anymore.

We wanted to be relevant, which I think we should be. And we would have been, had we delayed our primary for 1 WEEK!

[madfloridian]

25. Yep, just that one week. It's really been a fiasco.

The media has once again taken Dean down, just like they did with the non-scream.

[Dr.Phool]

26. The thing is.....Florida has NO support outside of Florida.

I've been doing a lot of traveling for the last 8 months, and I always read the local papers, where ever I'm at. Especially the editorial sections.

We're universally condemned in NC, SC, OH, GA, and more.

Everybody else agrees with the DNC decision. It's just us self-important assholes in Florida and Michigan that JUST DON'T GET IT!

[madfloridian]

28. I think you are probably right. Most states are pleased.

FL Dems need to get over themselves.

[PassingFair]

47. Well.. just Michigan, Florida and ....

strong Hillary supporters.


Who are willing to
support a woman who snatches

"victory"

from

the hands of default....

[quakerboy]

42. Pardon my ignorance

I think I've got the basics on why Florida went early. Why/how did Michigan vote prematurely? Whats the story on that?

[knitter4democracy]

53. The MIGOP started it.

They wanted to move up the MI primary to make us more important or something. They talked a couple of MIDem party leaders into it, and the state party chair went around to the county party meetings to see what the membership thought. We were entirely against it, worried that we'd lose our votes. Mark Brewer didn't care, and even though some in the State House came up with a better idea of a caucus as a compromise, they rammed it through the state legislature without most Michiganders knowing what the heck was happening.

The DNC said that, after we passed a law to move up our primary, we were in violation of the rules and had 30 days to change our date back. Thing is, it was a law, which means that the state congress would have to pass a law to repeal the first one. In the middle of a massive and nasty budget battle. On top of that, the RNC only took away half of the delegates, so why would the MIGOP vote to move the primary back? Yes, they were penalized, but we Dems were destroyed. Win-win for them, so they quashed it in the Senate, and it went nowhere.

So, the party leaders got what they wanted (a Hillary win--most of them endorsed her ages ago, long before this mess last fall), and the voters got screwed.

[quakerboy]

56. pardon some more ignorance

This is something that has been bugging me. Why Can't the dem's control their own primary days? Ive noticed that several states do dem/pub on different days. And given that the party controls how its delegates are awarded, why would we let pubs run the show?

I dunno. I think I'm a fan of a re-vote. Im sure that it would cause all sorts of problems, but I'd rather deal with that than this. Sign me up to help pay for it if nessicary. I hear I will be getting a tax advance/stimulus check soon.

[knitter4democracy]

57. I think the DNC sets the dates.

I'm not sure about that.

[crispini]

49. No, I think they'll be seated because it's not going to be that close.

:cough:

[Cha]

60. That would grand!

I hope it that way, crispini..we shall see.

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. Dean has always made sense to me

I have a friend that is a super delgate and she feels the same way.

I await to see what happens.

[madfloridian]

19. I am hearing that many superdelegates are willing to wait for the voters to speak.

I hope so.

He does make sense.

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. She will do what is right for the people.

She meet all three candidates, this summer, in a small venue for the Party here.
I wrote about here back then and her reactions and observations.

[Cha]

30. I hope tweety got Dean's message..

"The voters have to speak first before people like me get involved and try to put together things like that. I mean, let‘s listen to the voters before we—you know, on television everybody handicaps everything. I‘ve sort of given up watching television in between these elections because people blab and blab and blab. But the fact is, the voters—it‘s the voters‘ turn."

I think most people will remember Dean's contribution to the 50 state strategy..we'll make sure.

[madfloridian]

50. Tweety probably thought the blab blab blab was referring to someone else

and not him. Did you read the whole transcript? He came right out and said he was trying to trip Dean up, and that he did that all the time. he said he was trying to get him to say something he should not say.

[UALRBSofL]

34. John M. Ausman, Member DNC Florida

The Charter of the Democratic Party of the United States clearly states that all Democratic US Senators and US Representatives "shall" be automatic delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) Rules and Bylaws Committee, using rules subordinate to the Charter of the Democratic Party, does not have the authority to take away a charter given right to Senator Bill Nelson and the nine Democratic US Representatives from Florida.

The Rules Committee's desire to enforce the timing rule as to when Florida could hold its primary meant it violated other party charter requirements.

If this illegal action by the Rules Committee is successfully challenged then Florida will have taken the first step in regaining some of its delegates.

The Delegate Selection Rules states that any state that violated the timing rule "shall" be subject to a 50% reduction.

The Rules Committee again violated a "shall" requirement when it illegally imposed a 100% reduction.

With respect, I am,

Jon M. Ausman, Member
Democratic National Committee
Florida

Posted by: Jon M. Ausman, Member, DNC, Florida | February 12, 2008 at 11:21 PM

[madfloridian]

35. Jon sued the state and lost. Nelson sued Dean and lost.

Then DNC has won 2 recent lawsuits on this and have a Supreme Court precedent on their side.

[madfloridian]

38. Anybody catch the dig Tweety made...subtly.

First he compliments Dean on his previous campaign. Mentions his son campaigned for him.

"MATTHEWS: Well, you must also be happy—and I want to say something here in tribute to you. I think four years ago, you did a lot to activate young people, including one of my kids, and—I saw him holding one of your signs up there in New Hampshire. It made me so proud, out in front of the Palace Movie Theater at that big rally you had there. There was Michael out there, holding a big sign for you."

Nice, huh?

Then the dig, Tweety style.

"MATTHEWS: I‘m one of your big fans, Governor. Thank you...

DEAN: Chris, thanks for having me on.

MATTHEWS: ... very much. You are in many ways a flawed pioneer.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: Thank you."

Did he really have to use the word flawed.

[Kurovski]

39. K&R

Thanks!

[madfloridian]

63. Thanks.

for the K&R

[eridani]

40. Just have MI and FL have another election or caucus

Jeebus. Sounds pretty simple to me.

[appal_jack]

41. I consider Dean to be a hero & true patriot!!! n/t

[vssmith]

43. I live in Michigan and

if they seat those delegates now and count them I am going to be pissed.
You cannot change the rules in the middle of the game. Many Dems I know either crossed over or did not vote, thinking the vote was meaningless. They were wrong to disenfranchise us in the first place but this this......................

[MannyGoldstein]

44. Dean Is An Incompetent Hack

He single-handedly lost the 2006 election for the Democrats by showing incompetence of Rumsfeldian dimensions.

That's what the Clinton camp said, so I believe it.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11...

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

45. Dude...

You REALLY have to put one of those sarcasm thingies on your posts



You made my blood pressure spike about twenty point there. I'm too old for that shit!

[MannyGoldstein]

46. Sorry

I'll add it now.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

48. Thank You

I'll put the defibrilator back in the closet.

[bpeale]

55. what is he? fucking deaf? the people spoke loud & clear in Nov06

unfortunately, no one is listening. do they want us to come down there & throw them out of their offices just to get their attention? fucking useless dems!

[madfloridian]

61. Kicking this because of all the vitriol. Dean is on the voters' side.

"DEAN: No, what I said was that that‘s up to an elected committee of Democrats. I have 25 people on the committee. There are going to be about 160 or 155 on the committee that will be elected by Democrats all over the country. They‘ll make that decision much, much closer to the convention."

The superdelegates are mostly standing down and waiting. The committee is going to make the decision.

There is so much outrage about this, and FL and MI did it on purpose.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Rules were made.

[madfloridian]

62. Dean made it clear the voters need to be heard before others stepped in.

I think he will do his best to handle this graciously.