ROFLMAO At Those Saying "Hillary DARE Not Use The 'Present Vote' Meme Anymore!" LOL!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

:rofl:

Oh my god are some of you REALLY that naive in your political arguments? Do you REALLY think that one absent vote wouldn't have done ANYTHING to change the outcome and was more procedural than anything (yeah yeah I know, but you know what I mean), now cancels out the 130 'Present' votes he had while in the legislature? Are you kidding me? Do you seriously believe that?

Oh c'mon now!!! Who are you all kidding??? Sometimes the stuff here is just too damn funny.

:rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

1. You used to be better than this. I can't really imagine anyone with any intelligence

defending Clinton's absent as "procedural" while attacking Obama's procedural "present" votes.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. I Didn't Say She Shouldn't Have Been There.

Personally, I don't think it's nearly as dramatic as some are making it, but I digress. I don't mind a mindset that she should've been there.

But to say that this one vote now offsets and cancels the issue of his 130 'strategical' present votes, is nothing short of asinine. Sorry! :hi:

[Occam Bandage]

16. Oh, one doesn't offset the other. One doesn't excuse the other, either. Both Clinton and Obama

have dismal attendance records, with Obama's worse than Clinton's. And you are certainly intelligent enough to know that the "present" votes are a completely different animal.

[TwilightGardener]

2. This vote was a big deal. I did not excuse Obama's non-K/L vote, and you shouldn't

excuse this. The vote on this determines whether you stand for the Constitution and the rule of law, or whether you stand with BushCo and corporations. Obama passed this particular test, she failed it.

[Alexander]

3. At least Obama showed up. Hillary wasn't even "present".

[tabatha]

4. Well, apparently the "Present" votes were strategic, which

is something Hillary refuses to acknowledge.

However, for the FISA vote, it would have been important to demonstrate where she stood on this very important vote - where it was not strategic to vote yes, no, present.

[jackson_dem]

6. The strategy was protecting Obama's political behind (sometimes a 1 man 'strategy')

[Occam Bandage]

8. Take it up with Planned Parenthood. It's their strategy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Protecting it from what?

Of those 130 Illinois senate votes, name one that you think Obama was trying to protect himself on by voting "present."

I'm assuming you're familiar with all the actual bills.

[jackson_dem]

13. Gun control for one

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Which bill?

What's the number?

[nonconformist]

31. Here ya go

For example, in 1997, Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion. He also voted "present" on SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.

In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1. Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of sex-abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.

In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion.

And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares.

If Obama had taken a position for or against these bills, he would have pleased some constituents and alienated others. Instead, the Illinois legislator-turned-U.S. senator and, now, Democratic presidential hopeful essentially took a pass.

[nonconformist]

27. This vote wouldn't have made a difference. But she has demonstrated where she stands...

When she voted with the Democrats on Cloture two times on this bill, when her vote DID matter.

January 28, 2008
Statement of Senator Clinton:

Today, I will vote against Republican efforts to shortchange the debate on the FISA Amendments Act, important legislation that would modernize our surveillance laws and give our nation's intelligence professionals the tools they need to fight terrorism and make our country more secure. Rather than allow the Senate the opportunity to consider important amendments to this vital legislation, Republicans are instead blocking meaningful debate on this bill by playing procedural games, choosing instead to score cheap political points at the expense of our Homeland Security.

This legislation deserves a thorough debate. Several provisions - including those which would have a profound impact on the civil liberties of Americans - need to be the subject of careful deliberation. For example, the bill under consideration gives telecommunication companies blanket retroactive immunity for their alleged cooperation in the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. I continue to believe that a grant of retroactive immunity is wrong, and I have cosponsored Senator Dodd's amendment to remove that provision from the bill. The Bush Administration has blatantly disregarded Americans' civil liberties over the past seven years, and I simply will not trust them to protect Americans' privacy rights. With the temporary Protect America Act set to expire on February 1st, I strongly believe that we need to pass balanced legislation that protects our civil liberties and the rule of law while giving our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect our country.

[C_U_L8R]

5. It's not just the outcome that is so upsetting

it's that Hillary didn't even try.

She didn't try.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. "It's better to be a hypocrite, then have no position at all."

As somebody once said.

Of course, the 130 "present" votes are a completely different issue. Voting "present" is a procedural matter for fixing flawed legistlation, it's not the same as simply missing votes.

Furthermore, you've completely ignored what the issues were in those votes.

And even more impressive... you've failed to take into consideration whether or not a "yea" or "nay" vote from any of those 130 bills would have changed the outcome, and argument that you just used. Right now. In this thread. Right here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Sorry Bub. 1< 130.

Because she did it once, even if his 130 wouldn't have changed the outcome either (but it's the spineless kinda repeated avoidance of taking a position that matters), anyone saying that one cancels out and offsets his 130 are out of their damn political minds! It cracks me up!

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. You're comparing 130 apples to one rotten orange.

I'm also pretty sure that Clinton's missed more than one vote.

Furthermore, nobody's that concerned that Clinton missed one vote. On a presidential campaign, people miss lots of votes (maybe she couldn't find a parking space?)

The whole point of the discussion is that every one of Clinton's criticisms of Obama is turning out to be hypocritical.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. Why are they concerned about whether she showed up or not?

They're not voting for her, so why are they giving a damn?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. Not Sure. Maybe Somethin About Knee Jerking, Lack Of Critical Thinking Ability, I Dunno?

:shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

19. So, you agree with the proposition that DUers ought not

post critically on candidates for whom they are not voting in the primaries?

[robbedvoter]

18. It wasn't 130! It was 129 - so stop saying that

[BlackVelvet04]

20. LOL

Gross exaggerations shouldn't be allowed. ;-)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. I Like Rounding :o)

[Freetospeak]

22. Wow, talk about being desperate......nt

[HughMoran]

23. If that's what's happening

Then I'm logging off. There are more mature people on the car racing sites that I post on. I'm outa here - thanks for the heads up.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. It doesn't matter whether her supporters use it or not

It doesn't seem to be working very well.

It's just a dumb meme, largely because it does the typical political game of ignoring what really was involved for cheap political points. People are sick of it.

[Bread and Circus]

25. I seriously think Hillary is a huge hypocrite. Deal with it.

[incapsulated]

30. And the Obama supporters making this a huge issue?

What are they?

[Bread and Circus]

33. Pointing out the fact that ALL politicians make strategic NON votes...

including her highness, Empress Clinton.

[incapsulated]

35. No, they are acting as if she has crossed some horrific line

That has never been crossed before, lol.

[nonconformist]

36. They're also ignoring that she's voted on this before, so we know where she stands

And it's the correct position.

[Bread and Circus]

45. The problem is she made a huge issue out of the "present" votes as did many of you here...

teapot, meet kettle.

[Forkboy]

26. No excuses for either of them. Can we try that?

I know that means standing for something other than hypocrisy, but let's give it a go, huh?

[incapsulated]

29. Fine, but count the "outraged" threads spawning over this

By Obama supporters, as if he never, ever used the same excuse to miss a vote.

[Forkboy]

32. Please, "outrage" threads abound by both sides over the most trivial of things.

And this isn't exactly a "trivial" issue, at least not to me. And I suspect to many Hillary supporters as well. She should have been there. I'm no Obama supporter and I'm not giving him a pass for his lack of concern on some votes, and I won't give her one either.

I don't give a shit what excuse EITHER of them tosses at us for missing key votes, regardless of the predicted outcome. It's their FUCKING JOB. :shrug:

[incapsulated]

34. I'm telling you the reason for this thread

If Obama supporters weren't making half a dozen outraged threads about her non-vote, it wouldn't need to be commented on.

SHE HAS LOST ANY MORAL RIGHT TO THE PRESIDENCY etc.

It's absurd.

[Forkboy]

37. It's a big deal to me, and I don't support Obama. So I'm glad to see SOMEONE commenting on it.

SHE HAS LOST ANY MORAL RIGHT TO THE PRESIDENCY

If this example of hyperbole bothers you than you're going to be REAL busy on DU. ;)

Peace

[incapsulated]

28. HYPOCRISY

It's endless and with a straight face here at DU, every day!

[TheWraith]

38. You might have a point if your weren't LYING in your premise

That those "present" votes were somehow a failure or indicative of anything other than a careful political strategy outlined by one of OUR interest groups.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. Hey Jackass, If You're Gonna Call Someone A Liar, Make Sure They, Like, Actually Lied And Stuff.

I did no such thing.

Personally, I do find the number of his 'present' votes to be a bit unnerving, regardless of strategical intent. They were just too many and on too many big issues. But I do understand that many of them were the right way to go. The point though, is that the sheer number and positioning of them is absolutely legitimate substance for criticism, and trying to claim that because of Hillary's missed voted today, she can no longer criticize him for that whatsoever, is nothing short of politically asinine.

[Johnny__Motown]

40. over 4000 votes 130 Present votes = aprox. 3% is that all you got?

[Guaranteed]

41. Nice attempt at derision. You use it an awful lot, though, and it loses effectiveness.

Especially when you're wrong.

I would say that bringing up her failure to vote on the telecom immunity issue would constitute a pretty solid rejoinder to anyone attacking Obama for his "present" votes.

[johnnydrama]

42. plus the fact

She is in the US Senate, her votes affect everybody in the US. His voting present in the Illinois Senate affects only Illinois.

No present vote he ever made in Illinois affected me, or any of the other 288 million US citizens outside Illinois.

So yes, 1 vote in the US senate is bigger than every vote he ever made in Illinois.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. ROFLMAO!!!!!!

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Orsino]

44. Today's failures are no laughing matter.

You'd never know they were running for office, so meekly did they show up to vote, or fail to show up to vote. These things are symptomatic of a great sickness in the system, and attempts to turn it into a joke it for political (or personal) points come across as weak.