I do not think Shuster should be fired over the 'pimping out' comment .................

[Stinky The Clown]

............. or at least not yet.

First off, I am not a Hillary supporter, so that has nothing to do with what I'm about to say. Second. I was one of the first (if not the first) on DU to post about this comment when it happened. I also sent an alert to Media Matters within a few minutes of it being said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4466917&mesg_id=4466917

I think it was a horrible turn of a phrase, one that is offensive, not only to women, but to anyone who places value on other people.

I also think it was said without any forethought by a young man for whom such language is likely not uncommon or unheard of. After all, Media Whore is in the common lexicon. And when one thinks about the context (which actually does matter), the point of his question was valid and the meaning implicit in the use of the phrase was clearly non sexual in its immediate intent. It was an unfortunate but not uncommon vulgar colloquialism

None of that is to excuse it, particularly in a man who is working as a serious journalist, not a pundit or an opinion maker. There *is* a double standard - one for professionals and one for people like you and me.

If Shuster is to be fired, it ought not happen until NBC's far more egregious chauvinists and misogynists are dealt with equally. Tucker Carlson's remark about crossing his legs whenever he hears Hilary Clinton's voice is an example of far worse intent than was Shuster's in his remark. Scarborough's threatening Mika Bryzynsky with "the back of my hand" may have been said as a joke, but what does it say about Scarborough's mindset and comfort level with demeaning violence toward women? What about Matthew's asking Erin Burnett to "lean forward" toward the camera and then tell her how pretty she is? Was that because of what he says was a fisheye effect of the camera or because he wanted to peek into her brassiere? And how many times has Matthews gone off about Hillary Clinton? Or when he told laura Ingram, as a guest on his show, how pretty she is. What does **that** have to do with political commentary? Or his speaking over female guests while swooning over the 'tough-guy' male guests? And then there's Russert, who runs the singularly most white male dominated talk show on all of teevee. And then there's the guests these bozos have on all the time. Like Mike Barnicle (godfather to one of Russert's spawn), the penultimate beltway insider and good old boy.

And then there's the king of them all, NBC Newz president Steve Capus. He allows this shit to go on until the offended become a deafening chorus. Imus, with his lifelong pattern of 'nappy headed ho' type humor, was fired, hopefully, **because** of that lifelong pattern.

No ...... I don't want to hear about Shuster getting canned for this. At least not until I hear all the others who are far, far, FAR worse get theirs first.

You wanna do something about this? Keep watching MSNBC and NBC and fire off e-mails to them every time they do something that offends or pisses you off.

Face it, MSNBC in particular sees the value in keeping us watching. Look at how much they gave Olbermann and how they have raised his profile. Shuster is actually one of the few other truth tellers on that network. Rachel Maddow has an ever increasing profile there. So does Mika. Just keep the pressure on to get rid of the more egregious assholes.

I suspect the Carlson boy will the next to leave ...... his contract is up very shortly.

[Ian David]

1. If Limbaugh can play "Barack The Magic Negro" and keep his job, then Shuster should keep his.

Although a good, hard spanking in Geraldo and Bill's Sex Dungeon is called for.

[mzmolly]

2. I agree, more on Shuster below. I was just about to start a thread, but added to yours instead.

:hi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shuster

Shuster is especially known for strong opposition to the administration of President George W. Bush. During an August 24, 2006 report for Hardball, Shuster labeled the Bush administration as full of "ineptitude."<3>Nearly a year later, while reporting in August of 2007, Shuster declared the Bush Administration "an incompetent administration divorced from reality."<4>

David Shuster is a human being who made an ignorant comment. When is the last time anyone at FAUX was suspended or fired for day in, day out ignorance?

Here is Shuster in action at MSNBC: MSNBC’s David Shuster Grills A Cheney Apologist

Hillary's campaign is demonstrating that they will fight back, but I think that they're choosing the wrong adversary?

Firing Shuster seems counter productive in the larger scheme of things does it not? How many reporters have had the courage to call out the current administration? How many have had the courage to report on the Plame affair when most networks refused?

[MADem]

14. Don't be TOO SELECTIVE--he beat the shit out of Clinton as a FOX reporter.

Regularly, and GLEEFULLY.

And he isn't a stranger to JOHN McCAIN.

Read carefully:

From 1996 - 2002, Shuster was a Washington, D.C. based correspondent for the Fox News Channel. He was at the Pentagon at the time of the September 11, 2001 attacks and led Fox’s coverage of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan. During the Bill Clinton administration, Shuster led Fox’s coverage of the Clinton investigations including Whitewater, the Monica Lewinsky scandal, the Starr Report and the Senate impeachment trial.

Shuster was also a member of Fox’s “You Decide 2000” political team. He spent four months on John McCain’s “Straight Talk Express” bus and was Fox’s lead correspondent for McCain’s presidential campaign.

All that said, Clinton did not say she wanted him fired.

She just said she wanted NBC to take a look at what they were doing, and CORRECT themselves.

[mzmolly]

19. I read the link I provided. However, I WANT reporters to be impartial.

I think Shuster has demonstrated that he is?

Clinton's letter stated suspension was not enough. I took that to mean she wanted him fired?

:shrug:

Hello MADem :hi:

[MADem]

26. If she wanted him fired, I do believe she's woman enough to say so.

She said what he did is part of a troubling pattern, and that NBC needs to look at it. And FIX it.

THAT's what she wants. She wants them to 'get correct' as the kids say, and be FAIR. She was pretty clear:

I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language.....There's a lot at stake for our country in this election. Surely, you can do your jobs as journalists and commentators and still keep the discourse civil and appropriate.






:hi: BACKATCHA!!!! :hi:

[mzmolly]

28. I'll accept your explaination. However, MSNBC as a network is the least of our

problems. ;)

[MADem]

31. They have an agenda.

They're owned by GE, and GE is a Top Ten Pentagon contractor.

They'd love McCain to have his hundred years war. It'd help their bottom line.

[mzmolly]

32. Perhaps? But, I don't see how KO and Rachel Meadows etc...

play into that agenda?

I do agree that they have a "ratings" agenda and that prior to the war they were a station that promoted the war, unfortunately. There is no denying that GE made loads of money off the war as well.

I simply think that Hillary should choose her battles wisely and I hope she'll go after FAUX news with the same vigor that she has applied to David Shuster?

Many of us "liberals" have seen Shuster as a voice in the wilderness during the Bush assault and a protracted battle with him may not help her win people over?

I understand her position, but it's time to move on IMHO.

Have a nice weekend MAD, I'm out for a time. :)

[spooky3]

43. They like Obama.

It's unfortunate that MSNBC doesn't offset them and the other people who prefer Obama or a Republican, with a like # of Begala types.

The problem with comparing Faux, Limbaugh, etc., with MSNBC and CNN, etc., is that most reasonable people know that Faux and Limbaugh do not even attempt to be truly fair and balanced. People know their agenda and reputation, and discount (or cheer for) what Faux, Limbaugh, etc. say accordingly. But MSNBC and CNN purport to have integrity and to employ true journalists - CNN even brags about having the best political team around.

People don't expect the National Enquirer to live up to the standards of the New York Times.

Remember that Dukakis took a lot of heat for not reacting forcefully enough when a question about how he would behave if his wife were attacked, and Kerry probably lost the election for not standing up to the Swiftboat liars.

[Red Zelda]

3. This guy said NOTHING wrong

In a culture where "Pimp My Ride" is now a phrase about decorating cars, all Shuster did was ride the current lexicon.
Has Billary cried about this yet?

[maddiejoan]

4. Hint for ya

Schuster wasn't suggesting that we place rimless hubcaps and a bitchin' sound system on Chelsea.

[boston bean]

9. I love you!!!!

you make me laugh!

[Red Zelda]

12. Grow up

That's the language; it evolves. You want Chelsea out of harm's way, get her the hell out of the political picture.

[maddiejoan]

17. It evolves to what?

"pimped out" has only two meanings.

I agree it was meant as a metaphor, but it is still comparing Chelsea's campaign activities to that of a "whore" and her mother's as that of a "pimp".

David Schuster is a writer. He knows the power of words and he damned well knew EXACTLY what he was doing.

[Red Zelda]

22. He knows the power of words

They have multiple uses. If you agree it was meant as a metaphor, why in hell are you upset? If Shuster is guilty of anything it's awkwardly "sexing" the language up to get attention on TV, not of trying to paint Chelsea as a whore! God sakes, man.

[maddiejoan]

25. What do you think

he used the word for?

[Red Zelda]

34. For no detrimental reason

seriously, I think he just used it as a common, sexed-up verb that means to use someone for your own reasons. I love Chelsea, but Shuster did NOTHING. The language has whitewashed the term "pimp" as much as sports has turned "slaughter" into a common descriptor of a 35-0 football game, not genocide.

[maddiejoan]

38. How old are you?

[jonnyblitz]

23. red zelda needs to evolve. nt

[Bongo Prophet]

33. Well said, what a pathetic excuse.

i have seen this by other posters, and is so obviously wrong it hurts.

It is as ridiculous as a pure literal interpretation, actually even more so, because it makes ZERO sense.
I also am aware of the modern colloquial meaning, of sending assistants out to lobby for you.
It goes with the media whores meme, also not literal, but of selling out their values for money, fame, what have you.

I do have to admit that if he said the same about, say, Bush pimping out Petreaus to support his war, I would have laughed and agreed.
That does NOT mean I think he was literally sending his General out to sexual favors.
Maybe that means I have a double standard, but when I saw this incident live my jaw dropped, it was so obviously over the top.

[bettyellen]

42. thank you....

[mzmolly]

20. I think his comment was insensitive, but I don't think that

was intended?

[Thrill]

5. I think the Clintons are making a big mistake not letting this go

If she gets the nomination. The Coverage is going to be tilted way to McCain

[mzmolly]

7. They're using Shuster as an example?

:(

[K Gardner]

8. Well, this.. like many things.. is going to backfire on her. She's overplayed her hand once again.

And she won't get the nomination without cheating. Obama will get the nomination and the networks, and the American people, will be VERY happy not to have to deal with the Clinton Drama and B/S for another 8 long, tedious years.

[K Gardner]

6. Agreed. Shuster is a scapegoat for a much larger problem. And its not JUST a "woman"

thing.. I get tired of hearing it all related to sexism. The entire network is full of vitriolic bias and unsavory remarks about MALE candidates, too. I won't rehash the litany of MSNBCs "sins", everyone who pays attention knows them. I also won't get into Hillary's part in this. The network needs to get back to JOURNALISM and not "punditry".

[panader0]

10. My kids, ages 15,15 and 16 like the show "Pimp my Ride"

I tried to explain to them that the word "pimp" meant a man who sold women for sex. Usually not a nice guy. A low life living off of prostitution. They told me I was old fashioned and that was not the current meaning. All in all, a really dumb thing to say. Whether or not Shuster is any worse than any other pundit is debateable.

[dkf]

27. Yup. I'm sure this is what Shuster was trying to get at ...the

new Chelsea Clinton that speaks instead of standing silently at her Mother's side.

Face it, this is definitely not the old Chelsea that told the 7 year old reporter that she didn't speak to the media. That Chelsea treasured her privacy.

[robbedvoter]

11. I agree with you. he is definitely not the worst there. Apology should do for now.

Those who excuse his behavior however are no better than Imus's defenders on the nappy haired hos.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. I don't think he should be fired, but it took him 3 times to get his apology right

And that to me means that this wasn't just a careless lapse into slang that slipped out which Shuster immediately regretted when the implications of it were pointed out to him.

I think he should receive a real suspension - multiple weeks, and if he is left dangling for a little while before that gets worked out I don't mind that either. My position on this hardened a little when I read the email exchange between Shuster and a Clinton aid that took place after he made his on air comment about Chelsea being pimped out. Shuster was asked to apologize and instead he was defiant and defended his remarks to the Clinton campaign instead. He still was trying to leverage being hard on Chelsea into getting an interview with her. That was blowing it the second time, after saying something gross in the first place.

Then in the morning he introduced his "apology" as "housekeeping" and defended the words he used as slang. It was a classic non apology apology. "I understand how some may have misunderstood what I said and if so, and if they experienced my words as offensive, then I apologize for that" (not his actual quote - just my sense of the Friday morning apology).


Finally on Friday night he made a real apology. Had he done that immediately on Thursday night, or even on Friday morning, I strongly suspect Shuster would not be in nearly as much hot water as he is in now.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

15. K & R.

Schuster is paying an appropriate price. Yet, the sexist precedent was set by Russert, Matthews, Scarborough, et. al.

Oh, and they all seem to be very interested in race, much more than the average voter, one of whom recently shouted down Russert at a debate for playing the race card.

these guys also have no problem with telling black voters and women, among other "voter groups" what they think, feel or do, in spite of the fact that they are all most definitely the poster guys for WASP men.

So, Schuster should serve his time and then, the upper echelon Beltway boys should come under additional scrutiny.

Capus needs a tad more metaphorical fire under the tootsies.

:kick:

[madfloridian]

16. Too many here are willing to sell out Shuster to defend Hillary.

I find that scary.

[K Gardner]

21. I'm not surprised. They also condone Bill's racist remark, condone Hillary trying to count MI/FL,

defend her winning with only superdelegates, defend her/Bill's actions in Nevada and the lawsuit to change the rules after they agreed to them.. well, I could go on but I won't. They want her to win, no matter how much of their souls they have to sell to see it.

Its all about getting a WOMAN IN THE WH !! Yay rah.. but we couldn't have found an honest one, or one who people actually admired/liked?
Guess not.

[Saturday]

24. Too many here are willing to defend Shuster to hurt Hillary.

I find that scary.

[bilgewaterbill]

18. Shuster thought he was being cool. It's not a firing offense.

If Hillary insists on having his head she gives credence to all of the accusations that she is a vindictive b**ch. She's going to have a lot worse things said if she wins the election. She can't afford to be distracted and she can't assign a goon squad to go after every detractor. She needs to learn to take the high road.

[Thrill]

29. Attacking him for something innocent like this is going to backfire

and that is not good for us if she is the nominee

[bilgewaterbill]

35. After tonight, I don't know how she can win.

[Little Star]

40. Do you recognize a sexist comment ever? I do not want

Shuster fired, but people need to learn to be PC, especially when they are on a cable news channel. Hillary just wants all of MSNBC to stop this crap. She does not want Shuster's head. Now, if it were my daughter he basically called a whore on tv....... oh never mind.

[skooooo]

30. All the Imus haters need to pile on board...

..and call for his resignation, because if you don't you're a hypocrite, imo.

[uppityperson]

36. Me either. MSM needs to get their act together, but firing Shuster won't solve the problem

the problem MSM has with being nasty and not reporting news.

[Auntie Bush]

37. Tell me Stinky...is it now OK to call someone a MF

as it's now in the common lexicon? :shrug:

Sorry...just being a smart ass. I see your point...but I see Hillary's point too. She has always fiercely defended her daughter against attacks.
A real mother lion! Beware!

I agree, other misogynist journalists(?) should be fired first. But it's difficult to fire someone who has their own program. Unfortunately, David is low man on the totem pole and he's their SCAPEGOAT. It will set a very good example and put the fear of God in the others when they see the power and anger of their viewers.

I do hope David will be rehired...just like Imus. Thanks for this rational post...It changed my mind.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. Its really the double standard thing ..... I have called many people - like Bush - a motherfucker.

But I'm a civilian. Shuster is professional journalist. He may call them anything he wishes when he's off the air. But that simply cannot bleed into his on air yammerings if he still wants to claim to be a journalist.

[Auntie Bush]

41. Hear! Hear!

[grasswire]

45. he was subbing as a host, Stinky

I cut him some leeway for that. He wasn't in the investigative reporter's chair. He was the host, and hosts are allowed to say provocative things to elicit discussion, and to offer their opinions.

[Freida5]

44. Shuster should be fired!

[spooky3]

46. It's great that it was a DUer who provided the tip to MMFA

Congratulations, H2S!