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HopeforChange Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 05:59 PM
Original message
Can Mrs. Clinton Lose? Wall Street Journal Article
Can Mrs. Clinton Lose?

By Peggy Noonan, WALL STREET JOURNAL, February 8, 2008

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120241915915951669.html

If Hillary Clinton loses, does she know how to lose? What will that be, if she loses? Will she just say, "I concede" and go on vacation at a friend's house on an island, and then go back to the Senate and wait?

Is it possible she could be so normal? Politicians lose battles, it's part of what they do, win and lose. But she does not know how to lose. Can she lose with grace? But she does grace the way George W. Bush does nuance.

She often talks about how tough she is. She has fought "the Republican attack machine" that has tried to "stop" her, "end" her, and she knows "how to fight them." She is preoccupied to an unusual degree with toughness. A man so preoccupied would seem weak. But a woman obsessed with how tough she is just may be lethal.

Does her sense of toughness mean that every battle in which she engages must be fought tooth and claw, door to door? Can she recognize the line between burly combat and destructive, never-say-die warfare? I wonder if she is thinking: What will it mean if I win ugly? What if I lose ugly? What will be the implications for my future, the party's future? What will black America, having seen what we did in South Carolina, think forever of me and the party if I do low things to stop this guy on the way to victory? Can I stop, see the lay of the land, imitate grace, withdraw, wait, come back with a roar down the road? Life is long. I am not old. Or is that a reverie she could never have? What does it mean if she could never have it?

We know she is smart. Is she wise? If it comes to it, down the road, can she give a nice speech, thank her supporters, wish Barack Obama well, and vow to campaign for him?

It either gets very ugly now, or we will see unanticipated--and I suspect professionally saving--grace.

I ruminate in this way because something is happening. Mrs. Clinton is losing this thing. It's not one big primary, it's a rolling loss, a daily one, an inch-by-inch deflation. The trends and indices are not in her favor. She is having trouble raising big money, she's funding her campaign with her own wealth, her moral standing within her own party and among her own followers has been dragged down, and the legacy of Clintonism tarnished by what Bill Clinton did in South Carolina. Unfavorable primaries lie ahead. She doesn't have the excitement, the great whoosh of feeling that accompanies a winning campaign. The guy from Chicago who was unknown a year ago continues to gain purchase, to move forward. For a soft little innocent, he's played a tough and knowing inside/outside game.

The day she admitted she'd written herself a check for $5 million, Obama's people crowed they'd just raised $3 million. But then his staff is happy. They're all getting paid.

Political professionals are leery of saying, publicly, that she is losing, because they said it before New Hampshire and turned out to be wrong. Some of them signaled their personal weariness with Clintonism at that time, and fear now, as they report, to look as if they are carrying an agenda. One part of the Clinton mystique maintains: Deep down journalists think she's a political Rasputin who will not be dispatched. Prince Yusupov served him cupcakes laced with cyanide, emptied a revolver, clubbed him, tied him up and threw him in a frozen river. When he floated to the surface they found he'd tried to claw his way from under the ice. That is how reporters see Hillary.

And that is a grim and over-the-top analogy, which I must withdraw. What I really mean is they see her as the Glenn Close character in "Fatal Attraction": "I won't be ignored, Dan!"

* * *

Mr. Obama's achievement on Super Tuesday was solid and reinforced trend lines. The popular vote was a draw, the delegate count a rough draw, but he won 13 states, and when you look at the map he captured the middle of the country from Illinois straight across to Idaho, with a second band, in the northern Midwest, of Minnesota and North Dakota. He won Missouri and Connecticut, in Mrs. Clinton's backyard. He won the Democrats of the red states.

On the wires Wednesday her staff was all but conceding she is not going to win the next primaries. Her superdelegates are coming under pressure that is about to become unrelenting. It was easy for party hacks to cleave to Mrs Clinton when she was inevitable. Now Mr. Obama's people are reportedly calling them saying, Your state voted for me and so did your congressional district. Are you going to jeopardize your career and buck the wishes of the people back home?

Mrs. Clinton is stoking the idea that Mr. Obama is too soft to withstand the dread Republican attack machine. (I nod in tribute to all Democrats who have succeeded in removing the phrase "Republican and Democratic attack machines" from the political lexicon. Both parties have them.) But Mr. Obama will not be easy for Republicans to attack. He will be hard to get at, hard to address. There are many reasons, but a primary one is that the fact of his race will freeze them. No one, no candidate, no party, no heavy-breathing consultant, will want to cross any line--lines that have never been drawn, that are sure to be shifting and not always visible--in approaching the first major-party African-American nominee for president of the United States.

* * *

He is the brilliant young black man as American dream. No consultant, no matter how opportunistic and hungry, will think it easy--or professionally desirable--to take him down in a low manner. If anything, they've learned from the Clintons in South Carolina what that gets you. (I add that yes, there are always freelance mental cases, who exist on both sides and are empowered by modern technology. They'll make their YouTubes. But the mad are ever with us, and this year their work will likely stay subterranean.)


With Mr. Obama the campaign will be about issues. "He'll raise your taxes." He will, and I suspect Americans may vote for him anyway. But the race won't go low.

Mrs. Clinton would be easier for Republicans. With her cavalcade of scandals, they'd be delighted to go at her. They'd get medals for it. Consultants would get rich on it.

The Democrats have it exactly wrong. Hillary is the easier candidate, Mr. Obama the tougher. Hillary brings negative; it's fair to hit her back with negative. Mr. Obama brings hope, and speaks of a better way. He's not Bambi, he's bulletproof.

The biggest problem for the Republicans will be that no matter what they say that is not issue oriented--"He's too young, he's never run anything, he's not fully baked"--the mainstream media will tag them as dealing in racial overtones, or undertones. You can bet on this. Go to the bank on it.

The Democrats continue not to recognize what they have in this guy. Believe me, Republican professionals know. They can tell.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. The change I hope for is no more Republican trash on DU... Peggy-fucking-Nooner indeed
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hey Peggy, that's SENATOR Clinton, to you.
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russian33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Peggy Noona creeps me out, really
i don't know if she od'd on botox, or what..but saw her the other day, creepy, the way she looks, talks...
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why are you posting Peggy Noonan/Reagan spam here?
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. do we want to deal Clinton scandals old and new 24X7 for Four Years?
Maybe some people's memories are short, but the Clintons are extremely polarizing and
they have a scandal ridden history.

I do not look forward to hearing about Bill's many women he screwed around with and or was sued by,
or about the blow jobs he was getting in the White House.

I don't want to hear about White Water or Travel Gate or about the Clinton's past donors or
the possible dirt on the new donors.

Democrats will be demonized all over again if somehow Hillary gets the nomination.

We lost the congress thanks to Bill's selfishness and lack of self control, do we want to lose it again?

And I could do without the video flash backs to the impeachment testimony.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I want something new too, Rezko.
I've also recently heard about Exelon and how the big O screwed the people he represented.

He's going to blow Britney and Paris off the gossip map.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Peggy Noonan is JONESING for Hillary to "lose"
the poor woman can barely hide her disgust for Hillary. It's almost pathetic to watch how she tries to get other people -- or Election Analysts, if you want to give them their "official title" -- to buy her particularly nasty brand of bile and then grow frustrated when she fails.

Of course, if anyone wrote this kind of shit about Barack, his supporters would be having histrionic coronaries and crying "racism" or some such bullshit. But something like this about Hillary on DU? Oh hell yeah! :woohoo:

Pathetic.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Peggy Noonan? I wouldn't waste a minute reading her tripe.
What happened? Your Doc stop writing prescriptions for you?
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. We're Dems, we don't post Noonan's stuff here
unless we're making fun of it. :rofl:
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Same Time Posting Similar Thoughts!
Really fuck that old douchebag hag Noonan.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. She *hearts* St. Raygun n/t
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Please Delete This While You Can
Peg The Noonanator is not a credible source on DU.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Peggy Noonan smells of Bush
I can't listen to her drone on in that insipid voice, no matter what she says.



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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Andrew Sullivan is also shilling for Obama. You might want to start another thread.
:rofl:
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Very interesting
When all the pundits and "news professionals" that I detest begin praising Obama, my BS detector goes off.
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. An Obama fan did start a thread on it.
And so many of them wonder why people like me won't trust their judgement.

February 3, 2008

Don’t screw up, Democrats, Barack Obama is your man

Andrew Sullivan

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article3294433.ece
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Peggy Raygun Noonan makes me sick!
The most bias stupid reporter known to mankind/Democrats. Now some of those very same Democrats think she's wonderful! Shakes head and eyes roll.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. Peggy Noonan & Bob Novak, Obamatons are on a roll of late
:eyes:

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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. Peggy 'every caring heart' 'thousand points of light' Noonan? A more demure, low blood pressure...
little republican assassin there never was. Only fitting she has been gravity fed into what passes for the WSJ but yeah...she's not the only one suggesting HRC's exit
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's an interesting article. And it drives the Hill supporters into a frensy of rage.
But beyond that.

It has a lot of truth to it.

Although she fails to mention some of Obamas greatest strenghts. He is Young and vital. McCain is old and ponderous.

Obama spoke out against the war, and was right. McCain is a war pig to the core. And he is wrong.

Obama may well raise taxes. (hopefully) McCain has already voted to raise taxes. (ask the right wing)

Obama has energised millions of people. McCain energizes almost no one, at all.



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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. One good thing about McCain is that he deplores the Bush tax cuts for the rich
Unfortunately he doesn't seem very trustworthy about foreign policy. I think his decision making abilities were permanently warped from the time he spent inside the cage.

Over the last seven years the Republican Party has shown us that they could be energized by a dead toad wrapped in a cocktail napkin.

Or an entity even less charismatic than the dead toad.

But the Repugs only represent 28% of all Americans. What is important is the independents, undecideds and those who have never voted before.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. OK.. is it just me, or has this woman NOT AGED since Reagan? Seriously..
she's either chock full of botox and collagen or its the formaldehyde in the Republican drinking fountain !
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. She and Cheney have every scientific aesthetic advancement at their beck and call.
To disguise their inner souls.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Reaching across the middle is a good thing
There are many conservatives who are disgusted with Bush and can't stand McCain. The only person they could probably hate more is Clinton. Running Obama is more likely to get their vote. Run Hill, they will sit this one out. For all the hate on Reagan, he did get many votes from Democrats. I think Obama can reach across the aisle and garner centrist and conservative votes. Stating the obvious is not a Republican hate bomb.

Btw, seriously avoid making comments on use of botox and other image preservation methods by women, its sexist (I hardly hear any criticism thrown at male pundits, writers, broadcasters for their appearance) and there are some serious glass houses sitting in Democratland.

There has been so much division and nasty rhetoric thrown back and forth in the past 8 years, I literally had to stop watching news shows and avoid any politically oriented web boards. Red and Blue, ad nauseum. Then I come here and people are just as emotionally divided within the same party! Why so rabid? Either way, one or the other will get the nomination, and you know you will vote for who ever that is. I am hoping Obama is the candidate because he inspires, his campaign is about us. Hillary's campaign is about her. I want a candidate that will not be so polarizing. Also, you have to admit, Obama is being quite a gentleman overlooking and keeping his throwing arm out of the mountain of mud the Clintons have built---the Republicans won't show such grace.

Either way, I plan to vote for the Democratic candidate, even if I have to plug my nose while doing it.


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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I will remember you.
:hi:
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Is that a good thing? Should I be nervous?
The pic is pure gold.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. A Sarah McLachlan song.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Oh, I get it! I love that song.
I really like listening to female bands/rockers/singer/songwriters. I haven't downloaded anything from her yet as I go for more of the harder edgier stuff but I will check out more. Love Joan Jett, Annie Lennox, Detroit Cobras. Anyway, this is off topic.

I like to read stuff from all corners of the room, it helps to get a good perspective. It can be very seductive to read stuff mostly by people who hold the same views. I have a neighbor who is a diehard libertarian who gives me copies of his magazines when he is done with them, he loves getting copies of the Nation and Mother Jones back. Just because we don't see eye to eye on every political thing, doesn't mean we can't trade bad pol jokes and look at the the things we do agree on, drink a beer and be good neighbors. Neither of us toe the party line on every issue and that is what makes us individuals and I think, truly independent. Me, I have trouble trusting established institutions. So far as I have experienced, America has been sold out by both parties. I'm hoping the current party in the White House is unseated however I don't know how much I trust the former group (Team Clinton) mostly because really, they were in the drivers seat 8 years before 9/11. GW wasn't in office for a year yet (not to defend his actions afterwards).
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. I was 1/2 way thru this crap and then checked the author...ugh! You guys are better than this.
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