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Some cold hard facts (re: Hillary's demise)

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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 02:52 PM
Original message
Some cold hard facts (re: Hillary's demise)
Yesterday I touched on the subject of the impending demise of Hillary's campaign, and my post was widely derided. I follow up with these facts.

Obama has 230,000 contributors, of which 3 percent have maxed out.
Hillary has 35,000 contributors, of which 80 percent have maxed out.

In January, Hillary raised 14 million, 5 of which she borrowed.
Obama raised 33 million.

Obama is on track to raise another 30 million this month.

Draw your own conclusions.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Add to the fact that Obama could go 7 for 7 in primaries and caucuses through Tuesday...
and it does look pretty damn good for him.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Freepers have been counting the Clintons out since '92. You've
joined their ranks!
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. operative term in your post... the CLINTONS as in plural. This is not a dual presidency. n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. So you are saying that the only reason Obama will beat Hillary
is because of money? It doesn't say much for how our presidents are selected.
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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Don't blame me
I supported Kucinich, I'm just saying how it is.

And I agree, it is a sad fact. I totally support public financing of campaigns.

If there is any bright side to these facts, the much broader base of Obama's support at least suggests that there are a lot more "little people" giving him a push. When you consider that you max out at $2300, you realize just how many fat cats are behind Hillary.

I know how much (or little, depending on your point of view) money I have, and I am much more involved in politics than the average person, and I have never maxed out. I came close in 04 for Kerry, in the general election. You've got to have a lot of money to max out for the primaries.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary has tapped out her BIG contributors. She is now seeking the small donors...
just like the ones Baroque has been relying on for all his contributions.
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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes, that's clear enough
Don't know whether she can move the masses to get the job done.

BTW, why do you turn Obama's name into "Baroque?" Is that supposed to be a put down?
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. It's a variation on a theme, so to speak.
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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So when do we start with "Hilarious" Clinton?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh, she's still the favorite. But Obama continues to give her a good run.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think your 3% is wrong. But: Obama voters tend to be higher income,
and Clinton voters tend to be working class and poor, so he has a clear advantage in potential contributions.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. So raising the most money means you win?
Better check with Romney on that one.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. WRONG! YOUR STATISTICS ARE WRONG!
First of all, the $5 million was not included in the $14 million. Secondly, since the polls closed on Super Tuesday, more than 75,000 have contributed to Hillary's campaign. Thirdly, they have not disclosed how many donors in total they have. Fourthly, I don't believe they have disclosed how many of them were new donors. Fifthly, they certainly have not disclosed how many of them are maxed out.

So, girlieman, there is good reason for your post to be derided.


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wnslnadu21 Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. so she wasn't out of money?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. She needed money, that doesn't mean she was broke.
It meant she was close to being broke without contributions.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick for the truth
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yesterday the number was 70%
of Clinton's supporters maxed out.

Today it's 80%.

Of course, both numbers are untrue. AS is the 3% for Obama.

Clinton is at about 63%, Obama at about 43%.

But don't let facts get in the way of making shit up.
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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Since you didn't cite your sources
I guess I should just assume you make your numbers up too.

"And, according to the Obama campaign, only 3 percent of his donors have given the maximum $2,300 donation for the primary."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8374.html


There's a lot of different info out there, so you pays your money and takes your choice.

There doesn't seem to be much dispute that Obama is winning the money contest right now.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. The stats use OpenSecrets.
And they use spurious math to do it.

MunkeyFunk wouldn't lie.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Here ya go
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/donordems.asp?filter=A&sortby=P


this was posted repeatedly yesterday. I had presumed you'd seen it.
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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Thanks for the link
I wish I had time to read every post, or even every thread, but alas, the real world does have its demands.

Some of your numbers are oranges to my apples, but you've definitely called into question the information I had on the number of overall donors to Clinton's campaign. I suspect my source omitted the small donors (for Clinton but not Obama).
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. this is a distortion of the facts and I believe you must know this
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 04:51 PM by bigtree
the campaign just reported 75,000 new donors and has raised a total of $10 million since Feb. 1.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/clinton-10-million-raised-this-month

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catagory5 Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Clinton still has the advantage. Money or no money. Ohio, Texas, Puerto Rico.....sucka
I know its Karl Rove. he Sucks. I am only posting cuz he was on Colmes show. I actually like him. But just read the article. It kinda makes sense. He admits Obama is gonna run the table this month. But he does not have the #'s after that.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/karl_rove_on_the_democratic_race.html


Karl Rove on the Democratic Race
Hannity & Colmes


COLMES: We now continue with Karl Rove. Karl, we kind of know what's happening with the Republicans, but the Democrats are a big question mark. How do you see it going on from here and the delegate count is what it's all about. We're going to bring you -- I guess you got the blackboard there with the Democrats on it.

ROVE: I do. This is really complicated. First of all, the Democrats are very -- the Associated Press says Hillary has 832 delegates, and Obama has 821. Now, they need 2025 to nominate. They are both a long way from it. But closely -- you know, closely bunched up there. This week, there are 182 delegates yet to be chosen in caucuses and primaries on Friday -- or excuse me on Saturday and Sunday.

COLMES: Right.

ROVE: Louisiana, Washington State and Nebraska vote on Saturday and on Sunday is Maine with a caucus. These should advantage Obama because there are three caucuses. As you recall, on Tuesday night he did really well in the caucus states. And then, of course, Louisiana has a substantial African-American population. Washington State does not, but it is a caucus state. Nebraska is a primary and Maine is a caucus.

Then, next Tuesday, we have the so-called Potomac or Chesapeake Primary with 168 delegates. Senator Clinton should do well in Virginia. It should be offset by roughly equal performance in Maryland by Senator Obama and then District of Columbia, which should go to Obama. Again, 168 delegates, because of the proportional rules, this really means that one candidate or the other will literally gain 5 or 10 delegates on the opposition.

Then, later in the month we have Wisconsin, which is likely to be good Obama territory, and Puerto Rico, which is likely to be good for Senator Clinton. But the big one is March 4th, where we have Texas with 193 delegates, Ohio with 141. Both of those should be good for Clinton. And Vermont with 15, which should be good for Senator Obama. But 349 delegates and winning it by the margin that I think Senator Clinton is likely to get means that she is going to pick up more territory here on the 4th than Obama is going to pick up earlier in February.

COLMES: At this point Karl -- this is risky territory, but could you predict who the nominee will be for the Democrats based on what you know?

ROVE: I think it's going to be Senator Clinton because I think Senator Obama's best shots are largely behind him. That is to say, between what has been voted on through Tuesday night and what comes in February, he has had more caucus states where he does well and he has had most of the states that have substantial African-American populations, where he has done extremely well.

But, look, it's going to be a very close contest. I suspect that it's ultimately going -- the margin of victory is going to be decided by how the Super Delegates split. That is to say, the delegates that are actually elected in caucuses and primaries will be closely divided, probably with a small advantage to Senator Clinton, maybe with a small advantage to Senator Obama. But I think ultimately what happens among those Super Delegates will provide the margin of victory and give a little bit of acceleration to the winner by giving him or her a slightly larger margin.

HANNITY: Karl, I like that blackboard here. Honestly, that's a fascinating analysis.

COLMES: Very high tech.

HANNITY: Super Tuesday, Obama wins 13 states, she wins eight states. The news was that night that she won the delegate count. Turns out that Barack Obama won the delegate count. Then we hear issues of financial woes that she's having. So my question is one of momentum. Did Barack Obama, as evidenced by the money that is coming into his campaign and her money financial struggles, is that going to factor in, that is he gaining here?

ROVE: Well, she is going to be outspent. She was outspent on Tuesday night. But, look, if he brings in 7.2 million dollars and she brings in 6.4 million dollars on the Internet within a 48 hour period, that's roughly equal. We are talking about who got their email message out first and, you know, I suspect he will continue to out raise her. But it's not going to be by a margin enough to guarantee a victory.

She has some intangible assets in the form of the nature of the contests that are yet to come. You mention he won more state. Think about the states that he won. He won Idaho. Does anybody realistically think that Idaho is going to be won by the Democrats in the fall? It was a caucus with literally with a handful of people voting. North Dakota, there were 17,000 people in North Dakota voted in the Democratic caucuses or 18,000. That is a small fraction of the state's Democrats, who are an embattled minority.

HANNITY: Go ahead.

ROVE: The caucuses gave him a big advantage. Without the caucuses, if those had been primaries -- take a look at Idaho and Utah, I mean, you know, Clinton did a lot better in a primary state in Utah than she did in a caucus state just to the north that shares a lot of characteristics.

HANNITY: Karl, am I right in my thinking that if I'm John McCain, I would rather go up against Hillary than Barack Obama? We're short on time.

ROVE: Yes, absolutely. Everybody knows who she is and has strong opinions about her.

HANNITY: We expect the blackboard on every appearance. But in all sincerity, Karl Rove, the architect, welcome to the Fox News Channel.

ROVE: It will be back.

HANNITY: I hope it will be.

ROVE: Thank you.

COLMES: That's tax deductible, by the way, that blackboard. Business expense.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. And you haven't even factored in Gore endorsement - - which I've heard may be sooner
rather than later.
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