Honk (or at least K&R) if you think there *is* something "cultish" about the Obama campaign

[lwcon]

Naturally, there will be a counter-thread calling the "Hillbots" just as bad or worse. But that won't make it true.

I supported Edwards until he pulled out.

At first I thought I didn't really care which of the remaining two won, but realized I just couldn't stomach Obama's embrace of rightwing frames and unabashed attempts to out-Huckabee Huckabee as "God's candidate" as well as the embodiment of every martyr in history.

With all that, I decided to haul in with Hillary. I'm no "Hillbot," in fact when the campaign began she was my single least-favorite among the Dems, but compared to Obama and his cheesy, mind-numbing chants, it became increasingly clear that I wanted a battle-hardened pragmatist instead of a self-styled son of god.

Sorry to harsh the mellow, Obama fans. Please carry on writing "there-is-no-cult" threads, and accusing people like me who think there kind of is one of being GOP stooges and/or corrupt, racist Hitlery minions funded and programmed by the monolithic Clinton machine (so monolothic, it's running out of cash and is no match for Obama's celebrity and politico endorsements). Yes, in the two weeks since I moved to the Clinton camp, I've come under the control of the Clenis. I'm telling you, it's worth all $80 million they spent studying it!

Finally, people who haven't lost their heads and have come to a reasoned decision to support Obama, this is not about you. The two candidates are awfully similar on policy, and unlike Michelle Obama, I have committed to supporting whichever one wins the nomination. But look at the guy next to you at the campaign rally. He's a little glazy-eyed.

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[Mojorabbit]

1. I don't care for either of them

but am leaning Obama because he has the least baggage and I want to win in Nov. Unless the polls change showing Clinton can beat McCain, then I will re-evaluate.

[H8fascistcons]

210. Hope Springs Eternal?

Obama also scares me but what is truely tragic is that Americans are so desperate to believe in someone that can turn around this country. Unfortunately I think we are at each others throats trying to decide which republican lite candidate to support. Lets just hope Obamas intensions are honorable, it's going to come down to creditability between the two. The candidate that has the closer ties to the military industrial complex (which either one that turns out ot be) will be our undoing.... Good luck America were gonna need it......

[lwcon]

220. The good news if either of them gets the White House

They won't be batshit crazy authoritarians like the Repubs.

Compromised, you bet.

I'm just hoping, in the 50% likely event it's Obama, he'll "deign" (Michelle's word) to get off Mt. Olympus and get real.

People around here and DailyKos keep acting like Obama's pitching a no-hitter and people like me are saying "no-hitter" and thus harshing the mellow. With Hillary, though, it's apparently OK to through the book at her (the Starr report, et al.). The result is, she's more grounded and IMHO more likable.

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[AndyA]

2. I'm having a very hard time deciding who to support at this point.

And yes, the Obama cult is very real. Reminds me of Jim Jones. People believe everything they are told, they question nothing. You'd think people would be smarter after 7 years of Bushco abuses.

[adapa]

53. I chose hillary because her campaign is about what she can do for us

and she lays out the numbers- I like numbers, not so much for the verbage.

Plus & this is a big one for me- She's got the credentials to take McCain on the military/foreign policy area. Now, with Obama it' might not be an issue, he might be able to keep the Republican off the issue with the yack-yack. But Obama would still have to learn the issue - unlike Hillary.

[emilyg]

75. Agree.

[we can do it]

301. Me Too

[we can do it]

302. k&r -

[Voice for Peace]

149. Unfortunately this is just as true of Clinton supporters, as well as tons of people, everywhere.

"People believe everything they are told, they question nothing."

[IsItJustMe]

221. Isn' that the truth. My curse in life is that god gave me a mind and a conscience. Crititacal

thinking is profoundly missing in this country, and for all I know, maybe it's a part of the human condition. I don't know. But I am constantly confounded at how easy people will buy into utter bull shit.

[bagrman]

193. Whats going to change if The Clintons get elected? Hell she voted for the Patriot Act.

[lwcon]

226. Frankly, they're very similar on the policies

I came to Hillary's side (after Edwards folded his tent), because I found her more trustworthy (yes, that's subjective), more aware of what she's up against, her framing is better (she's readier to repudiate the Repubs than sing Kumbaya with them, not that she doesn't have a fair bit of that bug herself), and she's arcing leftward, while Obama is playing ever-more to the indies and presumed reformable Repubs.

My endorsement is here:
http://www.correntewire.com/vastleft_endorses_hillary_r...

And my analysis of the candidates that preceded it is here:
http://www.correntewire.com/triangulation_the_next_gene...

Have you voted in the primaries yet? Either way, I hope it does you proud.

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[RaleighNCDUer]

246. After 5 minutes there I clearly saw that Correntewire is a bullshit

site which is prone to making unsupportable statements by taking quotes out of context. A leftie Drudge, if you will.

Try getting some REAL sources.

[lwcon]

255. Whereas your statements are supported by...?

...?

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[lwcon]

257. Oh, and, are you like the other Obamaites who have decided...

... that Paul Krugman isn't a proper progressive because he's not drinking the Kool-Aid?

And because he let Corrente do the talking for him:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/i-wont-writ... /

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[RaleighNCDUer]

263. That's not talking, it's blathering.

All Krugman said was "I'm not talking about this" and since I have no fucking idea what "this" which he will not talk about is, and am linked to a wandering, dithering article which seems to have no point or focus, I will depend upon my own discernment.

BTW, I don't support Obama. I just don't support Hillary MORE than I don't support Obama.

Both are neolibs, neither are progressive except in certain narrow spheres.

Once again, I have no voice in the Democratic party.

[lwcon]

268. Wow, you can size up content...

... faster and more recklessly that Bill Frist diagnosed Terri Schiavo.

I guess the reason Krugman, Digby, and numerous other leading progressive writers linked to it is that they like pointlessness, wandering, and dithering.

As for having no voice, we're all like Howard The Duck, pal, trapped in a world we never made.

Neither of these finalists is close to my dream, but you go to war (and hopefully peace) with the compromised centrist you have, not the compromised centrist you wish you had.


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[nicc]

305. Whats going to change if The Clintons get elected? Hell she voted for the Patriot Act.

And Obama voted to reauthorize The Patriot Act. Your point?

[bagrman]

341. Neither one is quailified then to be Prez.

[dansolo]

212. I find this characterization very offensive, as well as counterproductive

What really pisses me off is that we are dismissing enthusiasm. When you call the supporters of one candidate "cult" members, you aren't doing the other candidate any favors, especially if these are people who don't usually involve themselves in politics. We should be nurturing these people as future Democratic voters, but instead you'd rather insult them.

[lwcon]

224. Are you enjoying the nuturing that Obama fans are coddling...

... Hillary with?

Did you find Obama's ad claiming that Hillary will "Say anything and do nothing" was making a cozy little nest from which to start her potential matchup with McCain? Did the trumped up charges that the Clintons were racists make you feel all warm and fuzzy about party unity? How about the day-and-night chorus of "She's unelectable!"

I wrote what I thought was a broad parody of the Hillary hate, and it was so close to the truth that half the people who read it thought it was real:
http://www.correntewire.com/why_i_hate_hillary_clinton (people especially took it as true on the Obama-crazy DU and DailyKos, where the relatively few Clinton supporters have seen it all).

Since I'm 1.5 weeks into the Hillary camp, I can tell you I saw nothing that compared to the meanness and delusional hero worship that characterizes much of the Obama talk, which I saw from the perspective an Edwards supporter.

And, puh-leeze, what a big fucking joke it is to claim that what we're griping about is "enthusiasm." Yeah, that's definitely what we're worried about. Read the examples throughout this thread of what turned us off Obama and his starry-eyed followers, and tell me it's just "enthusiasm" that we can't stand.

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[griffi94]

233. if these are people

who don't usually get involved in politics...well that kind of makes the case for the whole "cult" thingy
they love obama based on what... if they don't know his politics...it's because he keeps saying hope and change...and he's a bit
preachy......btw i'm not trying to do the other candidate any favors...i want the most experience person who can win and do a competent
job.....it would be nice if they matched my ideology 100% but after the last 8 years i'll be happy to start by getting even 50%
jmo but obama seems like a mostly empty suit that will be served up like chicken at a coyote picnic in nov...when the msm decides to start taking real shots at him.

[mwb970]

322. You certainly are sure of what "people" believe about Obama.

You lump all Obama supporters together in one group then characterize the entire group at once as unquestioning, mindless idiots.

Your statement itself seems mindless to me, not to mention extremely prejudiced and one-sided. What do you imagine you are contributing to the conversation with this stupid post? I'm curious.

[GMFORD]

344. That's ridiculous.

Yes, young people have jumped into this election cycle with all of the enthusiasm and energy we associate with young people. They cheer and make noise for their candidate...but that's not all they do. They volunteer, they go door to door, they make GOTV calls, they vote.

Obama spent years as a community organizer. He had to talk to people and convince them that if they want change in their lives (i.e. equal housing, an end to police brutality) they can't sit around and wait for someone else to do it for them. They need to get off the couch and pitch in to help. He has run his campaign the same way 'We are the change we've been waiting for'.

Clinton supporters don't approve of this. They don't approve of his charisma and they hate it that so many people have gotten off the couch to pitch in.

The question you have to ask yourself is do you want to elect Clinton who's claim is that she will go to Washington and work really hard on your issues while you go home and get on with your life? Or do you want to elect Obama who says if we want things to change we have to all be in on it? I'm sure Clinton intends to make good on her promises but can she do it alone?

In South Carolina, speaking to a predominately AA audience, Obama laid out what kind of changes he expects from those watching. He said the AA community must reach out to gays and Latinos, that AA fathers must take responsibility for their children and families. He said we know how to fix the public school system because there are lots of successful public schools all over the country. Using them as a model, he will provide funding and resources to bring all schools up to that level. But then he said it's up to the parents to get involved in their children's education too.

So is it that his message is too cultish or that his youthful supporters are too enthusiastic that bothers some people?

[K Gardner]

3. Another Edwards Supporter-Turned-Hate Spewer. Unfortunate. Guess you

missed or ignored all the posts this morning asking for an END to this cult bullshit.

[lwcon]

8. I guess you missed all the evidence that the adoration is out of control n/t

[K Gardner]

33. Out of Control = People Voting and Getting Involved in Politics.

[lwcon]

63. Um, no.

If you want to twist/ignore the nasty and obsessive behavior exhibited, for example here and DailyKos, then sure, you're right.

[stickernation]

291. Out of Control = People Thinking Pulling A Lever Is Politics

Politics in modern America means controlling the other Party's candidate. If I were Karl Rove, this is exactly how I would approach continuing the diabolical war in Iraq - I would create a fake candidate to touch all the classic liberal touchstones and "i'm not a racist!" insecurities and send him to battle his true enemy Hillary Clinton. I feel sad that I feel this way so strongly, but I was right about the 9-11 conspiracy and I believe I am right about this one as well. If I'm wrong, tell me why Zbigniew Brzezenski - the left wing of Satan Himself - is Obama's foreign policy advisor!!!!!

It comes as no surprise that Obama supporters are a lot like me. I am deep within Project Obama's "target addressable market".

Therefore, of course, I *like* a lot of Obama supporters.

However, this doesn't mean that I believe that the shiny object offered me is Jesus.

It is so cool that Obama is attracting new and young voters. God bless them for getting into politics for once.

It's just too bad that I can't trust Barack Obama at all, not with Zbigniew Brzezenski watching over his shoulder to make sure the bombing of the Middle East continues apace.

This is why we label Obama as a "cult" - not the masses, not the enthusiasm - the utter lack of responsibility for their own candidate, who takes marching orders on foreign policy dictated by The Ancestral Source Of The Neocon Agenda.

When Obama supporters fail to address this insanity, or fail to bring this terrorist to their candidate's attention as absolutely repugnant and unacceptable, it makes people think: these people don't question ANYTHING, do they? i mean, henry kissenger could be obama's foreign policy advisor and they wouldn't care. That is the message Obama supporters send with their continued blind support. If only ONE obama supporter would say: "hey man, I totally dig it, I'm going to send Obama an email to urge him to ditch ZB right away", maybe I would take you guys more seriously.

Yeah yeah, Mark Penn, yeah yeah. News flash: ZB is MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE. google it, in depth, if you want to really talk about this, as many obama fans i have spoken with have been like "he's a nice old man, he gave a nice-sounding speech a few years ago, chill out man". no, there will be no chilling out on ZB for this Edwards supporter. ZB is beyond the pale - the worst resurrection in US History since Sammy Hagar joined the remnants of Van Halen after David Lee Roth's departure. No, actually worse, because although Sammy was godawful, he didn't have the blood of millions on his hands when he was done. After all, you could always turn the dial to the hip hop station, jeez.

[DemBones DemBones]

373. Since ZB is advising Obama, people need to read about ZB, who

wrote a book called "The Global Chessboard," which advocated what the neo-cons in PNAC later advocated: the US creating a global empire so as to control oil and gas supplies. That's why we're in Afghanistan (natural gas pipeline) and Iraq, and rattling our sabers at Iran.

You might also want to look into Obama's mentor for the past 20 some years, his minister, who has some interesting friends.

Glad you posted this, people need to know about ZB; why not start a thread?
Of course, now I'm totally depressed. I think McCain would beat Obama but if he didn't, ZB would be in power again. And if McCain won, we'd have a prez who not long ago sang "Bomb Bomb Iran" at a public rally and thinks it would be fine to keep troops in Iraq for 100 years. Bad news either way. I can't believe that Hillary Clinton is now the most progressive candidate in the race but facts are facts.

[stickernation]

378. started a thread !

thanks for the encouragement

[DemBones DemBones]

382. Good deal! Got a link? I'm not seeing it. . .

to the thread!

[stickernation]

384. cool !

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

good times

[RazBerryBeret]

209. I'm leaning to Obama....

and it's definitely NOT a cult thing. get a grip. I think transparency in gov't would be a good thing. I'm not sure I've experienced that in my lifetime. I'm not a big fan of the Patriot Act. I oppose the war. I want new people in the WH.....

I'm tired of people painting each other with the same brush.

And I'm tired of being talked down to. Don't fault me for wanting "better" ... I've never known people who think hope is a negative, till now....

[lwcon]

216. Perhaps you should re-read the OP

I am not talking down to people who choose Obama on the issues and are willing to listen to criticism.

And talk about talking down to someone! Here you are trotting out the lame-ass mini-meme that Obama doubters hate hope, change, unity, and ponies. While you're at it, don't forget "why don't support our troops" and "why do you hate America?"

I don't think "hope" is a negative. It's also not the sturdiest positive either. I prefer someone to be honest about the issues.

Instead of telling me to get a grip, look at some of the amazingly cultish examples noted throughout this thread, including Obama himself saying "At some point in the evening, a light is going to shine down and you will have an epiphany and you’ll say, ‘I have to vote for Barack'" and a commenter calling him our "savior."

Look at this brochure for crissakes:
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_lit_in_sout...

Nothing messianic going on there, for sure! Well, yeah, Jesus Christ called him to serve and he's the New Moses. But other than that, nothing.

And if you can wade through all the loud protests at DU that there isn't an Obama cult, see what happens when anyone challenges Obama about anything

Finally, please don't fault me for wanting better:

http://www.correntewire.com/building_a_better_obama_or_...

I may have to vote for this guy in November. If he and his camp could work on humility and honesty, maybe it will be a vote that's not so regrettable.


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[Jim Sagle]

245. Pssst....he IS evidence.

[cali]

9. Nothing new about it.

There's a long list of Edwards supporters who spewed hate when the supported him. Why would they change?

[lwcon]

28. Criticism = hate (at least that's how cultists see it) n/t

[cali]

32. Not at all.

Your OP isn't criticism. It's the work of a smear artist, cupcake.

I frequently criticize Obama. I've written about how I felt disgusted about the McClurkin thing, how I don't agree with his vote on the energy bill, how his lack of leadership on Iraq is disappointing- and much more. That's criticism. You? You're simply another little dabbler in shit. And you stink of it, as all such smear artists do.

[lwcon]

65. Thank you for your unity! n/t

[Politicub]

188. I didn't like the McClurkin thing, either

Still don't. For me, it was a key tell of Obama's judgment. I'll vote for the dem nominee, but I trust that Hillary has the GLBT community's back and would give us a seat at the table, while we would just be ignored in an Obama administration. But, either of those outcomes are preferable to supporting someone who is for a marriage amendment like McCain.

[ClericJohnPreston]

194. Oh look

it's the noxious poster named Cali...the one with the food obsession. I bet you never met a CUPCAKE you didn't like, right, cupcake?

[Donnachaidh]

207. ROFLMAO!!

Mr. Pot -- Mr. Kettle is on line two.

My irony meter just broke. Glad I kept my hipwaders on.

[jackson_dem]

266. lol yeah! Remember the thread claiming Edwards was a war profiteer?

Guess which smear merchant posted this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[desertflamingo]

249. just sayin'...

yeah you. that's how your post made me feel.

[stickernation]

294. Oh, "cupcake" eh ?

I feel impelled to defend the OP after seeing silly shit like this.

Your criticism of Obama hardly goes deep enough Cali. I've seen you around on these boards, with your single "obama is flawed for mclurkin but other than that he's perfect" deflection. I think you think you're really hip, don't you, with calling the OP a cupcake for implying that your own support is based on anything other than conditioning and insecurity.

Which you've so amply proven, cupcake.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

36. Self-delete

Moved the post.

[MADem]

145. Best post of the day!!! You nailed that definition!!! NT

[Skittles]

218. LOL: "hate spewer"

pleaase - it is not hatred to notice something creepy going on

[lwcon]

227. And what a typical cult reaction!

Criticism = hate or ignorance. Every damn time.


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[Skittles]

242. it is getting quite disturbing

they're starting to take on the attributes of freepers; in other words, the very type of ignorance they despise

[CyberPieHole]

4. Kick and recommend for the Cult n/t

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[murielm99]

156. We Clinton supporters are ashamed

to count him as one of us.

I am not sure that all the people here are really Clinton OR Obama supporters. Some of them just poke their heads out from under their bridges now and then.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

168. PURPLE NIKES AND KOOL AID FOR ALL!

[graywarrior]

5. If he wins the nominations will you be casting your vote for McCain?

Sounds like it.

[robbedvoter]

10. Did you read the OP? Even the last paragraph? Try again. Slowly now.

[lwcon]

Except that...

a) I explicitly said I'd vote for either
b) I explicitly said that they're similar on policy
c) (not that you'd know this) I am a lifelong Democrat dedicated to keeping this current generation Republican bastards out of office

Yet, I have heard many, many Obama fans say they wouldn't vote for Hillary, encouraging the meme that most Americans wouldn't vote for her, and Obama ran an ad saying "She’ll say anything, and change nothing." How's that for party unity?

Consider that you just told someone who promised to vote for Obama in the general election that you think he's going to vote for McCain. Does that tell you something about the selective, distorted perception going on?

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[thoughtanarchist]

6. Please delineate clearly

What differentiates a cult from a movement from a revolution and please explain how you came to the conclusion that the Obama campaign more closely resembles the former than the other 2 phenomena.

thx

[lwcon]

51. Wow, a really great question!

A movement and a revolution are "about" something. People rallying together to seek real change.

Movements and revolutions may well also have some of the following properties. But these are among the salient characteristics that a cult, as I understand them, includes:

* Adoration of an infallible leader, typically with religious overtones
* Mass chanting of vague, feel-good slogans
* Mythologizing of small and non-existent achievements and goals into legends and pipedreams
* Viewing all criticism as incorrect and a sign of "hate" (already been demonstrated a few times up-thread)
* Ends justify the means (as far as I know, this hasn't turned violent, but the vitriol spewed at Hillary Clinton, such as in the trumped up charges of racism and countless conspiracy theories about her "machine," is worrisome)

There is probably more, but that's some that springs to mind. Thanks for asking.

What bothers me most about the Obama cult is that we really have/had a movement growing in this country, as shown by the 2006 elections. Most Americans want the GOP to be kept from the levers of power. This should be an easy election for us. And running on a pleasing but wrongheaded campaign that says, "hey, both sides are to blame, let's just chill, and it'll all be good," a campaign that pisses away public dissatisfaction with the GOP is self-serving (because it's unchallenging) and wholly inappropriate for the times.

America is ready for change. But I feel he's co-opting that real desire into a brand that inflates a decent-enough (and likable-enough) politician into a god, and opiates people into forgetting the real changes that are needed. People are putting all their eggs into one mythic basket, when they were already prepared to reject the "values" of the Reagan Revolution -- thanks to some terribly hard-learned lessons.

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[thoughtanarchist]

91. By your standard...

All political campaigns are "cults".

What first made you interested in joining a "cult"?

Personally, I do not see Dem politics in this manner in any capacity, for any dem nominee.

But if you are committed to honest discussion, you have to admit that you have not described anything that is unique to any one campaign over another.

[lwcon]

114. Perhaps, you could say that all campaigns...

... might have brushes with such elements. But the religious fervor, and literal claims that he's a "savior," a "bodhisattva," and from his own brochure "Called to Serve" and on a mission like Moses' is well over the top of any campaign I'd want to be a part of.

Don't you get a little weirded out by all the groupthink posts like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BELIEF leads to HOPE, HOPE leads to CHANGE

CHANGE for the Greater Good of all Americans.

BELIVE, HOPE, CHANGE.

That is our new motto.

Evryone repeat after me 3 times:

BELIVE, HOPE, CHANGE.
BELIVE, HOPE, CHANGE.
BELIVE, HOPE, CHANGE.

I support a new America of strength and unity led by Barack OBAMA.

And remember - YES WE CAN!

Is he running for president or My Little Pony?

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[MADem]

147. The My LIttle Pony fan is a bit of a spelling moron, too! Doesn't say much for the QUALITY of

support from that particular quarter, certainly.

Creepy earnestness.

[thoughtanarchist]

171. So you feel comfortable making that sweeping generalization based on a single DU post?

Lots of assumptions being made here.

Perhaps you have an ulterior motive?

[lwcon]

182. There are countless examples throughout DU and DailyKos...

... and many cited on this thread in my posts and others'.

Oh, please do tell about my ulterior motive, friend.

Apropos of nothing, have you ever seen Scientologists talking to a skeptic? They yell at him/her: "What are your crimes?" Just BTW.

When you're through speculating, you can see what my motives are:

http://www.correntewire.com/building_a_better_obama_or_...

I want strong candidates running good campaigns, and running the GOP out of town for a long, long time. Sorry if that motive displeases you.

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[thoughtanarchist]

195. I'm going with whomever the nominee is, and I do not speak down to fellow democrats.

Has is been mentioned that it may be time to become "concerned" that the behavior of the Hillary zealots will make her seem unpalatable to independents? No. It has not. Not that I have seen, anyway.

That is not a message I have seen from Obama supporters, my friend.

However, that IS the message that seems to be so highly coordinated from a contingent of Hillary supporters that it could have come straight from Rove's play book and it is ugly.

I would not do that to a fellow dem. I find it unsettling that you are willing to do so.

Why don't you just sit back and wait for the remainder of the primary results and stop pitting us against each other?

Your own overzealousness in supporting your primary choice could cost us the general.

Remember this thread you started if the time ever comes when you have to sit through a McCain inauguration speech. Way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, my friend.

[lwcon]

197. Another cup of STFU for someone who wants the Obama campaign to do better

Typical.

Look at the shit that is hurled at Hillary Clinton, including every page of the goddamn Starr report. Are you vigilant about that, or do you not worry that trashing her might enable McCain? How about 100,000 posts calling her a racist? How about feeding the valueless "Clinton Fatigue" meme. The mythologizing about the ominous "Clinton Machine." How about Obama running ads that claim she'll "Say anything and change nothing?" Is that all good for the party?

And, of course, when Obama supporters are finally confronted about the overzealousness of some of folks, all we've heard for days is complaining that Hiltery has a messianic cult that's as bad or worse. So much for not doing that to another Dem.

Yes, in my 1.5 weeks of being a Hillary supporter, Karl Rove got to me and brainwashed me to help McCain win the election. I just can't pull one over on you, can I?

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[thoughtanarchist]

215. Claiming that you want to "strengthen" the Obama campaign by insulting his supporters...

is like claiming you were just trying to "strengthen" your marriage when your wife catches you cheating.

Spare me the nobility of your stated intentions. Obama runs ads. Hillary runs ads. Big whoop. If you don't like what you see out there, why do you have to become what you don't like? We have a party that does that already. No need for another.

Seriously, who benefits from a dem wedge right now? Hillary? Fuck no! It's McCain that benefits. I'm not telling you to STFU, I'm saying that your message could be a lot more positive, a LOT more intelligent, and MUCH less divisive. Based on that, it is a valid question to ask your motives, because there is no strength to be had from driving your fellow democrats apart.

The fact is that you are on here flat out insulting a full half of your own party. You are doing it. Not some wild eyed nameless and faceless "cult member" Obama supporter.

You.

It's clear that you are not a good representative to be lamenting the "overzealousness" of anyone.

Again, way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Love your message. That'll pull us all together. Good job, friend.

Ignore list engaged.

[lwcon]

230. So sorry to see you go

I'll really miss your deep concern for party unity (as long as it's in Obama's favor).

Oh, and nice dogwhistle on the marital infidelity thing. Does the Obama campaign send you extra hope for change when you do that?

Trashing Hillary is of no consequence, but reservations and hope for improvement re: the Obama campaign puts McCain in the White House.

Without you around, I won't learn such pearls of wisdom.



___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[susankh4]

196. I think it's the Barney show....

he may be auditioning for.

But... don't worry. He will have HRC as a "hatchet man" while he sings unity songs with the GOP. She will get something done..... even if she has to be VP to do it.

[lwcon]

198. Hillary would definitely feel obligated to make Obama her VP

If it's the other way around, I'm not so sure.

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[susankh4]

380. I know that is the current media meme...

but I don't buy it.

The Dems have two minorities pitted against one another right now. Women and African Americans. If either one of them gets left out.... the DNC is in for a riot (or at least a mass defection.)

I'll lay money on it we get them both. And... right now that money is on BHO/HRC. (Tho I'd presonally prefer HRC/BHO.... for a host of reasons.)

[Aviation Pro]

140. In other words: Amway.....

....after observing the behavior of a rally for Senator Obama I can legitimately say that it reminded me of an Amway convention complete with a pithy catchphrase.

"Red hot and rolling!"
"Yes we can!"

[murielm99]

163. Look at some of the movements of the past.

The civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, the union movement, the Old Left, the Socialist Workers, Catholic Socialist workers movement, or the feminist movement, both the first and second waves.

All the movements had leaders. We can identify some of those leaders. Often, those leaders were murdered or jailed. Other people in those movements were there to take up the cause and take their places. None of the leaders made the movement about themselves.

I think there is some danger here.

Of course a political campaign is about an individual. I saw some danger in the adulation of RFK. It was very soon after the deaths of his his brother and MLK. Everyone was looking for a leader. I think the same is true now. This country is in bad shape. Many people are looking for simple answers. We need to be very careful.

[sandyd921]

222. Yes, exactly!

This is what has been most alarming to me as I have observed this movement or cult or whatever it is. People looking for simple answers at a time when much hangs in the balance for this country and the world.

[griffi94]

243. yes people are looking for simple answers

unfortunately those don't always exist and to insist otherwise is to deny reality.....also as much as i'm glad to see
obama bringing in people who are new to politics....those are the same folks who want the old quick fix simple answer...
again that doesn't exist in this situation....where the hell where these concerned citizens in 2000-2002-2004....they got interested when they felt the pinch....but it's ok because if they gather together and chant a bunch meaningless goddamned slogans at each other
everything will be fine.....hope change...i'm a uniter...and...well you know the rest

[susankh4]

292. This is on the money... IMO

And it explains all the "cult" accusations surrounding the Obama Campaign. The nation is desperate for a saint/hero/martyr. So we are creating one.

I really fear for Obama once he is elected. Which I do think will happen.... If he is not Prez he will be VP.

My money right now is on the BHO/HRC ticket. Reminiscent of the JFK/LBJ ticket. I think it's already in the offing....

[griffi94]

238. good lord

you just described the neocons

[stickernation]

295. precisely why

i have this disquieting notion that Obama is a Karl Rove plant.

let's see him ditch ZB and we'll talk - until then, forget it.

[JKaiser]

7. I agree that the Obama Campaign is like a cult

[rudy23]

11. It's ridiculous to criticize a politician for getting people TOO excited about them.

That would be like criticizing Tom Brady for being gluttonous for winning too many Super Bowls. That's what politicians are SUPPOSED to do to win elections. Get people excited about them.

Are we so cynical that when the political process actually engages people, we dismiss their fervor as "cultish"?

[Seen the light]

14. I wish we could recommend individual posts

Because that one would be a keeper.

[K Gardner]

35. Last line... SPOT ON !! And yes, this is exactly what HRC supporters are afraid of. We want to

keep the status quo, dontcha know?

[lwcon]

72. The status quo is the pretending away of the Repubs' sins

Putting that in new bottles isn't change, and it doesn't make me feel real hopeful.

How is Obama's "post-partisanship" any different from Bill Clinton's "third way"? It's still triangulation, and it still lets the late Mr. Reagan call the tune.

___

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[Tennessee Gal]

37. Excitement is one thing.

Overly zealous is another.

In South Carolina, Obama said this:
"At some point in the evening, a light is going to shine down and you will have an epiphany and you'll say, `I have to vote for Barack!'"

[SammyWinstonJack]

131. Creepy!

[MADem]

148. That's fucking SICK, frankly. What....HUBRIS!!! nt

[Jim Sagle]

247. Piph on his epiphanies.

[emilyg]

261. Get that light away from me.

[Cooley Hurd]

348. Link?

No offense, but your avatar illustrates that you just might NOT be very objective.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

48. Political fervor is just dandy but when you have some supporters

tearing opening packs of Kool Aid, cutting it with razor blade and then snorting it with a straw you don't have fervor you have a cult. SOME of Obama's fans are so hardline addicted they will say or do anything to get him elected. Which, when you think about it, is exactly what they accuse Clinton of doing. Old repug trick - act offended by something your opponents supposedly has done when in actuality it is yourself perpetuating the "crime." How about talking about your candidates strong points? Can you do that without having to resort to attacks?

I will vote for Obama if he is the candidate but it won't be with eyes glazed over, mind numbing devotion worn by so many people on this board.

[rudy23]

78. Wow, combining the Cocaine meme, and the Jonestown meme! Gold Rovian star for you!

I thought the Starbucks/Messiah thing was tricky, but then, WHAM, Cocaine/Kool Aid. Nicely done.

[lwcon]

69. Do you criticize L. Ron Hubbard or Jim Jones for getting people too excited?

Just wondering if you think uncritical adulation is always a good thing.