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"...I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights." - Barack Obama

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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:43 AM
Original message
"...I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights." - Barack Obama
This statement doesn't raise any alarm among followers of Obama? Haven't there been many that have "seen the light" on reproductive rights?

Didn't Reagan start out pro-choice before Jesus revealed his fallibility and he became "pro-life"?
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. give me a break
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. the only reason women are the one group Clinton has never screwed over it's the one group
she can't afford to.
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Why? How many times do you want to be lied to?
Remember, a lot (not a majority) bought into President Insane's "compassionate conservative" image. What a fucking joke that turned out to be.

The words of a candidate should always be taken at more than face value. Remember, these are professional liars. If they weren't Dennis Kucinich would be the overwhelming nominee.
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Wow.
Clutching at straws, much?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. gee, a partial quote with no context. No discussion of Obama's voting past regarding women's rights
How meaningful.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I don't think you want to see the rest of that quote. nt.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. I think that I'd like to see the rest of that quote instead of the snippet
you have provided. Could you please provide a link to the source?
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. others have posted the quote from his book in this thread. read on. nt
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Of course not. That's how Hillary works. Distortion, lies, misrepresentation.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Here's a breakdown of his voting record on
abortion....PRESENT NO VOTE

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miceelf Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Pftt
The present vote was a strategy he did with the encouragement of Illinois abortion rights groups. of all the criticisms of him, this is one of the most assinine. A lot of NARAL folk are supporting him because they know the truth. He has worked very hard for reproductive rights, including his time in Illinois.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. NARAL gives Barack and Hillary both a 100% rating for their
support of reproductive rights. You can check out their ratings and read their statements here.

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/cl...

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/ob...

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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Arn't you Hillary supporters tired of spreading that lie
"Pam Sutherland, president of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, said Mr. Obama was one of the senators with a strong stand for abortion rights whom the organization approached about using the strategy. Ms. Sutherland said the Republicans were trying to force Democrats from conservative districts to register politically controversial no votes.

Ms. Sutherland said Mr. Obama had initially resisted the strategy because he wanted to vote against the anti-abortion measures.

He said, Im opposed to this, she recalled.

But the organization argued that a present vote would be difficult for Republicans to use in campaign literature against Democrats from moderate and conservative districts who favored abortion rights."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.h...
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'd like to see the rest of the quote.
I'm not a chicken. :)
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. the full quote with a two sections before it and one after from the article i found
Obama's also willing to take an internal monologue, the rolling over of ideas and motivations and self-doubts, and make them public in two best-selling books.

Aside from being frank about youthful experimentation with drugs and alcohol Obama goes so far as to admit that he may be wrong in supporting a woman's right to choose an abortion and opposing gay marriage.

"It is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided, just as I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights," Obama writes in "The Audacity of Hope." "I must admit that I may have been infected with society's prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God; that Jesus' call to love one another might demand a different conclusion; and that in years hence I might be seen on the wrong side of history."

Obama's also a politician who can write rich dialogue in his books, which means he has the ear and skill to give others a voice. It's not something one can fake.

Link: http://www.carrollspaper.com/main.asp?SectionID=29&SubS...
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Here it is:
It is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided, just as I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights. I must admit that I may have been infected with societys prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God; that Jesus call to love one another might demand a different conclusion; and that in years hence I might be seen on the wrong side of history.

- Barrack Obama, "The Audacity of Hope"


Posted without comment.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
He's talking about being open minded. What's the problem?
If we're going to have a religious person in the WH, I'd rather them be open minded than
the fundie-type. He's basically saying he is fallible, as are all humans, and that he could
be wrong in not supporting gay marriage.

Can no one hear the shades of gray in anything anymore? Is everyone supposed to be back and white on every issue?
We'll never have an INTELLIGENT person again if that's the case.
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. He's ALSO saying he could be wrong about a woman's rights
Anyone else see the problem here?

He CAN'T defend his position on gay marriage, so he turns to religion. He WON'T defend his position on a woman's right to choose, again referring to religion.

Haven't we had enough of using the Bible as a reference point for poicy?
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Hillary doesn't support gay marriage either and DOMA was
established on the Clinton watch, as was DADT. She has also spoken to prolife groups and talked about
"common ground" which freaked out people back then.

What I hear him saying is that he is religious, but open-minded about issues. He's not quoting Leviticus or some such shit.
That's what RW fundies do.

We aren't going to get anyone in this country that doesn't address "faith" or religion in their campaign. I don't like it either,
but that's the reality.
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. It comes from his book
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 08:56 AM by Tarc
It is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided, just as I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights. I must admit that I may have been infected with society's prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God; that Jesus' call to love one another might demand a different conclusion; and that in years hence I might be seen on the wrong side of history.


So I dunno...he admits that Christian demagoguery may be clouding his opinions on the matter, yet he still won't change? :shrug: Can't say I'm terribly comfortable with the thought of another bible-relying president.
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. unless i'm wrong Obama has already stated a few times he would not let his religion
interfere with his duties as president(and i personally trust him on that)

Besides its an very good trait to be aware he can be wrong, its also the first step on shifting to a better view
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. A simple statement of fact.
His remarks are infallible only when he speaks ex cathedra.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah, heaven forbid we have a thoughtful, open-minded president who isn't wrapped up in dogma.
Look, dude's pro-choice. The fact that he says that position has been reached through thoughtful analysis instead of a belief in the infallibility of his political philosophy only helps his stance, in my view.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
17. McCain was also originally pro-choice.
All that matters is what they do, not what they believe. What has Obama done to help or hinder reproductive rights?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
22. I once had a friend
She was an amazing woman who, while personally against abortion, fought very hard for a woman's right to choose. She was able to see past her personal beliefs towards the rights of all women - not just her.

In her late thirties, she had a tubal ligation reversed so that she and her new husband could have a child. Less than nine months after the birth of that child, the condom broke. She went ahead and had the third baby because she sincerely, truly believed it was her responsibility. She could have had an abortion. She fought for that right. Yet, she held to her personal moral code when it came to her personal, moral decisions.

I have always admired her.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. You're grasping at straws, with that one.
All he's saying is he knows he doesn't have a perfect record - which acknowledgement is belied by his 100% NARAL rating, meaning that he feels much worse about a couple statements or votes in his past than NARAL does.

There are a few, a very few, points where Barak and Hillary differ, but abortion rights is not one of them.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
25. The statement about "moderate judges" raises more alarm than that.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I think they are both pretty scary. nt.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm open to the possibility that God is going to punish me for being pro-choice
I think the best Christians are the ones who are open to the possibility that they are misinterpreting God's orders. I much prefer this to the Christians of Bush's ilk who are convinced that:

1. God is talking to them directly, and
2. They are following his orders correctly.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
29. Glad to see you got the memo:
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 09:54 AM by stillcool47
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/338 /

Obama voted consistently for abortion rights
True

The Clinton campaign has raised doubts about Sen. Barack Obama's record on abortion rights because he voted "present" rather than "no" on seven antiabortion bills when he was in the Illinois state Senate.

The day before the Super Tuesday primaries, an e-mail from the head of the Connecticut National Organization for Women took issue with those votes, prompting a response from U.S. Rep. Rosa DeLauro, an Obama supporter, who said the effort by NOW was divisive.

The facts are clear in the Illinois state Senate, choice advocates asked strong prochoice legislators like Senator Obama to vote present on Republican-designed bills like a ban on partial-birth abortion to protect a womans right to chose, DeLauro wrote. Senator Obama has always had a 100 percent prochoice rating.

We're addressing the votes with this item and this article, so here we'll focus on Obama's record.

Indeed, DeLauro is correct. Obama has 100 percent congressional voting ratings from NARAL Prochoice America for his three years in the U.S. Senate. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund similarly gave Obama a perfect score on its 2006 congressional scorecard.

He also earned 100 percent records for his votes in eight years as a state senator, according to Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. (She is neutral in the presidential race and her group has not endorsed a candidate.)

"He has always voted in favor of abortion rights," she said.
So we find DeLauro's statement to be True.



Seven other times, he voted that way as part of a broad strategy devised by abortion rights advocates to counter anti-abortion bills.

Pam Sutherland, president of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, said Mr. Obama was one of the senators with a strong stand for abortion rights whom the organization approached about using the strategy. Ms. Sutherland said the Republicans were trying to force Democrats from conservative districts to register politically controversial no votes.

Ms. Sutherland said Mr. Obama had initially resisted the strategy because he wanted to vote against the anti-abortion measures.

He said, Im opposed to this, she recalled.

But the organization argued that a present vote would be difficult for Republicans to use in campaign literature against Democrats from moderate and conservative districts who favored abortion rights.

Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general who was in the Illinois Senate with Mr. Obama from 1998 through 2002, said she and Mr. Obama voted present on the anti-abortion bills.

Its just plain wrong to imply that voting present reflected a lack of leadership, Ms. Madigan said. In fact, it was the exact opposite.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.h...
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
31. K&R n/t
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