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Where in the heck did this "cult" meme originate anyway?

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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:38 AM
Original message
Where in the heck did this "cult" meme originate anyway?
I do know of a certain political strategist famous for attacking people for their strengths, though.

Obama is popular. People are excited about participating again. He's raising money in an amazing way and largely in small amounts.

Yes. It must be a cult. :eyes:

Let's echo chamber that around for awhile, ehh?




And before it's asked.

Yes, I'd vote for Hillary if I had to in November.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, it is attacking his strength........guess someone's been on the phone
spreading the new meme!

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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. What!? You mean President Clinton started it!?
Maybe he is on the phone with his lawyers, asking them to find out "Who is this FrenchieCat?" ;-)
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ask the media
It's all over the place. It's not as if DUers are the only ones saying it.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Exactly. And who is famous for attacking people for their strenghts?
I really doubt this will stick though.

It's just too silly.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Google the articles and read them
Try to do it with an objective mind. May be you'll get the answer to your question. It's not silly at all.

You could also read this if you want. But I doubt you will. You don't want the answers, you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend everybody is just dissin' poor Obama.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wow. Talk about cherry picking. Or is it sour grapes?
You really want me to consider that seriously?

With as much support as Obama has across the boards of course there will be some blog posts like that here and there.

I'm pretty sure every candidate has a few like those.

There are such things as political groupies you know.

Ask Monica. :rofl:

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Not just sour but totally pickled n/t
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I really don't give a damn what you consider seriously
As I said, I didn't think you were looking for answers to your question. You were simply expecting affirmations of your own opinions from like-minded people. You won't get them from me.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Why am I not surprised that you don't give a damn what people think?
After all Hillary "deserves" the Presidency.

It doesn't matter what the people think.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Where the hell did I say Hillary "deserves" the presidency?
I voted for her, but I don't believe she "deserves" the presidency.

Nonetheless, if you think I should care what you think or that I should bend over backwards to impress some stranger on an Internet message board then please tell me why. You certainly don't seem to care what people think.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I shook the hand
that shook the hand of John F. Kennedy and was totally stoked about it.

It was even cooler that she shook his hand during segregation and I shook hers at a Barack Obama event.

Sorry you don't get it.

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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. I met someone at an anti-war event a few years ago that was at Kent State.
Yes. On THAT day.

I was pleased to shake her hand too.
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
60. Kinda like when I shook
the hand of a bartender who shook the hand of Sharon Stone.

I get it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah that Obama lovin' media
I wonder where in the world they could have ALL gotten the same idea at the exact same moment.

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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. They didn't get it at the same time
It's been out there for a while.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. For me, the conversion stories
There's also something about several thousand people at a rally chanting in unison that has a cult-like feel to it.

Meaningless slogans.

Us-vs-Them thinking.

Starting a mass social movement just to win an elected position -- in a democracy.

Telling your field staff to avoid talking about policy -- talk about feelings instead.

There are a number of other clues.

The odd thing is that most Obama supporters consider themselves to be supreme intellectuals. Subscribing to a cultish political mass movement seems like it would be alien to them, and someday it may be. But for today, they love The Movement.

It's understandable.

But I hope you understand that it scares some of us, regardless of partisanship.

--p!
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. shut up, you have no idea what we as supporters of Obama think
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 05:02 AM by Levgreee
I have reasons just as intelligent as any "right-minded Hillary supporter", some related to studying history, social movements, philosophy, etc., based on the research of Obama's issues, the specifics of the messages he brings (it is not just "hope", if you listen carefully), and other reasons I don't feel like listing because I'm tired.

I would be ready to stop supporting Obama on a dime if something compromised my view of him, but I don't figure that will happen because he seems honest and heartfelt. I am no cult member.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
61. A little sensitive, aren't you?
I answered the question in the OP. It's my honest opinion about what caused me to think that the Obama campaign was developing a cultish element -- not that you yourself are a cult member.

"Shut up" -- ? I won't be silenced, especially not by silly and hypersensitive bullies who are finally having to deal with people they intimidate and smear fighting back. If the charge of cultism hurts you, change it by warning the Obama camp from inside that they're playing with fire. Read some of those conversion stories and you'll see what I mean.

--p!
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. From the behavior of his supporters...
...and their constant "Why don't you want CHANGE?! Why can't you HOPE?!" auto-responses to reasonable questions about WTF Obama is actually going to do.

Anyone who lived through the 1970s, and remembers Jim Jones -- and made it through the gauntlet of Scientologists and "est" zombies without being sucked in -- recognizes the cult aspect of the "Don't ask questions! Just belieeeeeeeeeeeve! Follow meeeeeeeeeee!" meme we're slapped with every damned day.

Obama slam? Nope, not this time. You asked a question, and I am giving you an honest answer. Obama supporters scare the fuck out of me, because most of them sound EXACTLY like every People's Temple / Scientology / est groupie I ever met.

Don't like the answer? Then don't ask it again.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. and you look silly.
pushing this meme after millions have voted.

Y'all should have gotten started earlier. It might have worked before Iowa....like it did with Howard Dean. Maybe it would have been better than trying to portray Barack as just another Black Preacher.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Well at least they aren't comparing his wins to Jesse Jackson anymore.
:D
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Who's the "they" you're lumping me in with, and...
...why haven't you answered my reply to your OP directly?
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yet another non sequitur.
You are so reliable that way.

And stop insinuating I'm a racist. That bullshit hasn't worked for you yet -- and if you haven't noticed, even the vast majority of Obama supporters on DU are seeing right through your cheap shots.

You have no shame. Your desperate tactics are thoroughly disgusting.

Oh, but thanks for replying -- you reminded me to put you on my ignore list.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. And then I come along and post his damn record
and off you all scurry away to do regurgitate Hillary's lies and piss all over any joy or hope that any of us want to see in the world.

Again... BEEF, and if you want to know what he's going to do, it's at barackobama.com.

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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. Jim Jones? You're comparing this to Jim Jones?
How many Obama supporters are selling their homes and moving to Guyana?

:rofl:

Wow. Quite a stretch.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. You asked about the reason for the "cult" meme.
I gave you an honest answer.

In truth, I expected you to ridicule me, but I gave you an honest answer anyway, on the slim chance you were being sincere. Sadly, you were not.

If you had lived through the 1970s, you would recognize the behavior.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. "If you had lived through the 1970s, you would recognize the behavior."
:eyes:
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. And your problem is... what, exactly? n/t
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. His problem is he doesn't understand WTF you're talking about
And he doesn't want to make the effort to learn. Therefore he'll stick his fingers in his ears and go "la la la la" while ridiculing you.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Ahh...the condescension.
Again: :eyes:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Yeah, the eye roll is so non-condescending
Not.

Don't expect what you don't give and have never given.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. I fight fire with fire.
I would note that I also did not call tens of millions of Americans cultists, or did you miss this part of Sapphocrats rant: "Obama supporters scare the fuck out of me, because most of them sound EXACTLY like every People's Temple / Scientology / est groupie I ever met."

And I'm not the only one calling bullshit...

:popcorn:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. I noticed it
I've read the entire Blog Post.

So what if you're not the only one calling bullshit? Sapph isn't the only one scared shitless. There are many of us who are.

I'll take your :popcorn: and raise you a

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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. You've been drinking:


Better a cultist than a reactionary...

:spray:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. That's so original
Why don't you tell me to "keep the hate alive".

Oh yeah, that's the pre-programmed response of one of your comrades.


But at least you find yourself amusing.


Just for future reference: Not everybody who doesn't ascribe to the Obama program is a "hater" or a racist. Maybe if people would stop accusing others of nefarious motives for not falling in behind the Obama "phenomenon" others wouldn't be thinking odd things of the Obama supporters.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. "Not everybody who doesn't ascribe to the Obama program is a "hater" or a racist."
Therein lays the butt of your problem.

+2 ignore list.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Back at ya
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. I DID live through the 70's. This is NOTHING like Jim Jones.
I guess inventing such delusions may be entertaining for you though.

Carry on.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. It's not entertaining at all.
It's frightening.

It's especially frightening that you don't see it. But you will.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. I lived through the 70's and think it's bullshit
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 06:16 AM by HeeBGBz
WTF? Every campaign I've ever seen, someone chants something. While I preferred Gore,Kucinich or Edwards, I went with Obama. I'm pretty indifferent in my support of him. Between the two choices I have, he's the one I can stomach. The cult meme is really lame.

edited back because I was in the right reply zone after all
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. I don't agree with you.
What more do you want? :shrug:
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. How about coffee and a bagel?
Or a brand new car!
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Beyond stretched
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. sniffa, if you have a problem with me...
...please have the courtesy to address me directly. I tried to PM you, but you have me blocked.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
23. It's hardly a meme -it's a set of characteristics and a set of processes
that a number of insightful people have noted in both the leader and the followers.

I hasten to add, that Bush and his core supporters share those characteristics, too.



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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. .
:rofl:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. You're going to get one of two responses
1. "La la la la I can't hear you"
2. :grr:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Who did you support? pray tell? Hope it wasn't Edwards.....
cause that was bordering on a cult, from where I sat.

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. Never really had a dog in this fight
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 06:06 AM by depakid
Despite misgivings about his Senate record, I probably would have voted for Edwards by default, as he was the only potentially viable candidate this year bringing both the issues and approaches to the table that would result in real progressive policy changes. He also had the best chance to win come November.

From what I recall, there were quite a few posters who felt this way- we thought critically about policy and procedure- who the candidates associated with, who they took money from, who they pandered to.

My guess is that many of us held out some vain hope that Gore would step up- the nomination and the presidency were his for the asking, but after reading Assault on Reason, it was pretty clear why he wasn't going to. And good on him- probably the right decision, considering what the next 4 years will likely look like....



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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
54. Why do you think Edwards had "the best chance" for November?
Because he wasn't Black and a woman, and came from the South? See, to me, that sounds like the ideal Republican candidate. I never believed that Democrats were supposed to look just like Republicans in order to win.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. I hear you, depakid.
All too well.

I guess they'll have to go through it themselves to understand it.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. Been seeing some of the attributes for a while now
and have posted about them for several months.

I think looking at the elections from the outside (Oz) -and being able to watch and read honest and objective news (ABC is great) gives one a healthy perspective, unclouded by distorions in the American corporate media.

It's all too easy to get caught up in that crap- even if you "know" what's going on....
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Oz, as in Australia?
If so... I spent some time Down Under, and the news was quite a wake-up for me (even though I thought I had a handle on more objective non-U.S. news). To see one's country from half a world away was... just wow.

If you have a chance, would you link me to what you're written about the "attributes" (or are they in your DU journal)? I'd be most interested in reading.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. PM Kevin Rudd & Deputy Julia Gillard....
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 07:15 AM by depakid
Nice to be in a country with a sane government again....

We're going to be in Canberra next week, for The Apology to the stolen generation. Looking very forward to that and to having a look at Question Time!

It's such a pleasure (especially for my partner who suffered through the Howard era) to see the Liberal MP's squim and scowl as they head back on Tuesday. They were so arrogant and dismissive- and now they act like petualant children

Kelly O'Brien had Brendan Nelson on the 7:30 report last night, made mincemeat out of him- it was truly a thing of beauty. A journalist actually questioning and pointing out his inconsistencies. He's tough on Rudd as well- takes no prisoners, though since Rudd is forthright, tactful and honest- he comes across with an air of competence and assurance.

Not keeping a journal here, but some of the things I've noticed come up on a keyword search with my user name and "cult"

The attributes I've observed are pretty well documented in the literature. Once people come to "believe," the leader can say or do things that followers or supporters would have found objectional before. When it happens, rationalizations follow- and sometimes they get absurd.

When someone raises a valid criticism of something that's said or done, that person is attacked and labelled (and it doesn't matter what the person's credentials are or were.

It's as if some people give up their critical thinking to the judgment of the leader. The leader says something, and other rush to find justifications for it without skepticism- without thinking hmm, what's this all about.

Another curious thing that happens is that as time goes on, the leaders begin to believe much of the adulation about themselves. It's infectuous, and it leads to a sense of infallability that's brought down many a politician and evangelical.

BTW: the above OF COURSE doesn't apply to all (or perhaps even most) Obama supporters; it's just an set of things that I've noticed druing the campaign, going back at least to the McClurkin deal.

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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
42. I think it comes from the media creation that is Obama
The guy is wholly unqualified to be POTUS, thin on substance, panders to rethugs, voted against dem anti war proposals from the day he was sworn into the senate until he decided to run for president. Has timid proposals compared to almost every other dem that was running. Yet the base swoons over him as if he was a god because the media tells you to. That is cultish.
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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
43. Hillary supporters act the same way
and yes, I did live through the 70's and 60's and 50's. I witnessed the rise of Moonies and Krishna Consciousness and Scientology. I can say without reservation that enthusiastic support of a political candidate is nothing like that. You know very well that using the term 'cult' is derogatory and insinuates that those who support Obama are not reasoning people. How about supporting a candidate based on gender and the cult-like worship of her spouse?

""What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man."
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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. Well from where i sit, it doesn't seem very reasoned to...
insist your guy is the anti-war candidate when he voted against timetables for withdrawal from Iraq prior to deciding to run for POTUS. Doesn't seem reasonable to vote for a dem whose healthcare proposal only covers half the uninsured, but costs the govt almost as much as one that covers all the uninsured, and costs individuals 80% more than the one that covers all uninsured.

Doesn't seem reasoned to me to vote for a guy for POTUS who's highest office before this first senate term, which is only halfway complete, was a state senator. Doesn't seem reasoned to me to put a guy that has never run even a statewide campaign against an actual contender up against rethugs when we actually have a chance at winning with an experienced candidate. Doesn't make sense to me to support a guy that panders to rethugs, but can't win a single southern state in the GE.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
51. This guy was scary too! Guess that was the 60s Cult. Totally acceptable.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
52. It's used to insult those who disagree with them
There is no other reason to echo this stuff other than insulting a group of people with a broad brush. It doesn't accomplish much, unless insulting someone (including even those who are not arguing with them at the time) is the goal.

And both sides have the same share of people who claim that they are not going to support the other candidate in the GE. Which in my opinion is one of the worse decisions one could make: giving McCain a better chance to win the election.

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
57. It's the politics of fear at work
:scared:

It is very sad to see how it's managed to take hold at DU. Very sad.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. ding ding ding!
we have a winner. Division and fear. Saying anything to disparage your perceived enemies.
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