Die hard supporters of either candidate - please tell me...

[Taverner]

Do you really think the other candidate is that bad???

Honestly, how would Hillary Clinton be a bad president? Life under Bill was sooooo horrible, after all...and she's seen the political machine and knows how to press the buttons.

And how would Barack Obama be a bad president? He has charisma, he's incredibly intelligent (up there with Carter, IMHO) and he's rooted in progressive ideals.

The only bad outcome I can see is a Republican winning.

[yourout]

1. I don't think Hillary would be a bad President.....I just dont think she can win.

She is a guaranteed 5 to 10 point loss and a down ticket disaster.

[busymom]

2. guaranteed loss by whom?

The MSM?

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. BULL. McCain is HATED by his party. The religious right hates him, they won't vote.

The PRO Bush tax cuts HATE him, they won't vote. The Anti-immigrants HATE him, they won't vote and the anti-war HATE him, they won't vote FOR HIM. No one is left to vote for him!!!!

Hillary would kick McCain's ass from here to Timbuktu!

[Taverner]

7. I actually think both can win

Obama can get the Evangelical vote - seriously. So can Hillary if she plays her cards right - and I'm not talking pushing homophobia. In evangelical circles, David Kuo's book was a big influence. Many evangelicals don't want just draconian laws, they want compassion. You won't hear that in the MSM, but it's there.

But even besides that - look at the numbers - just by turnout alone, the Dems are beating the Repubs 2 tp 1. The repubs are either (1) staying home (2) voting dem or (3) voting for what amounts to as a fringe GOP candidate.

This election is ours to lose.

[NoBorders]

8. Sums it up for me too

And I hope I'm wrong about that if she gets the nom.

[jlake]

3. I don't think Obama is "rooted in progressive ideals"

I doubt he would win in the GE, but if he did his administration would be a grand disappointment.

[Bongo Prophet]

42. Jlake, what about his admin would make it be a grand disappointment?

Do you know who would be in his admin, as secdef, or state, etc?
Do you think there would be quite a bit of crossover from the same folks that would be in a Clinton admin?
If he were prez, do you think he would reject an RFK Jr or Wes Clark, etc?

I really don't have an inside track of info, but it sounds like you might.
would love to hear some real discussion on this.

[jlake]

44. Based on his previous judgment: Rezko, McClurkin etc.

and his promise to embrace Republicans, I forsee a disaster.

[Bongo Prophet]

45. Okay, thanks for the straight answer

I have to admit when I don't know things, and feel no shame to do so.
Whether Barack or Hillary or other, I know we will have to fight off a whole series of shitstorms, just because that is what repugs do. Losing makes them a different kind of crazy.

I will defend either one of them against the greater evil. :mad:

[OzarkDem]

4. Not a diehard fan of either front runner, BUT

I'm beginning to have grave concerns about Obama and his campaign's monetary and policy connections to the American Enterprise Institute and their star Newt Gingrich.

I've done some research and I think Newt helped develop Obama's health care platform. Walks like a duck, etc.etc.etc.

[William769]

6. I honestly believe Obama would be just as bad or worse than Bush

When it come to my personal rights.

And his supporters keep confirming my suspicions.

[jlake]

10. Yes. They just fucking don't care.

[Taverner]

11. Obama wants to decriminalize Marijuana

How does that infringe on your personal rights?

For the other side, Hillary wants to end mandatory minimums.

Sounds like both are pretty good for personal rights.

[William769]

13. I am speaking of my personal rights as a Gay man.

[Taverner]

18. Both candidates have pandered to both sides

The tour with the homophobe (which I'm guessing you're referring to) doesn't make Obama a homophobe. I agree, he was pandering to the Evangelicals, which are in play this time around. I don't like them any more than you probably do (again I'm guessing, sorry if I assumed too much) but this is politics.

Gay Rights are happening with or without presidential approval - thank Zeus. Sodomy laws are being overturned, Gay Marriage WILL happen - its a matter of when, not if.

[William769]

19. I beg to differ, Hillary has not.

Thats why all Major GLBT news outlets are endorsing her.

[Taverner]

21. If a politician doesn't pander, then I'M worried

But seriously, both pander - but the core message for both of them (change) is good.

[William769]

22. Well if she has pandered please show me where.

It's becoming more obvious who you voted for.

[Taverner]

27. Sure about that? Obama pandered big time too

Hillary has actually done something fit for political genius. She never wore religion on her sleeve, but made it clear that she attended the Congressional Prayer Breakfasts. A lot of Evangelicals who have ethics (hard to find, but they do exist) took notice of this and really liked her for it. So by pandering, she appeared not to pander. Genius - one for ANY poltician to take note of. It's things like that that, if she's the nominee, give me heart that she'll win.

Again, I'm not saying either one is a choirboy or girl, or that either one is a demon in disguise. Tactically, Hillary's superior to Obama. She knows how to "say" things if you know what I mean.

Obama, on the other hand, does have a more progressive agenda. Say what you will about his backtracking, but he does have a more progressive agenda. But we are talking differences of minutea.

Also keep in mind that during primary season, politicians will say and do anything. I'm just cynical enough not to hold that against them.

[William769]

28. Still waiting?

[Taverner]

29. I just pointed out one case of her pandering

But I'm not trying to pile on Hillary here. Just because I don't hate your enemy doesn't mean we're not on the same side.

[William769]

30. I am a Christian I fail to see how you just showed her pandering.

And as you saying Obama has a more progressive agenda is just laughable.

[Taverner]

33. Then you're blind

You don't go to prayer breakfasts unless you're Evangelical, or trying to win points with them.

[William769]

35. I go to breakfeast with them all the time thats the Christian thing to do.

Take off your blinders. better yet stop your coyness, it's not working.

[Taverner]

36. Look up the Congressional Prayer Breakfasts

They aren't just prayer and breakfast. They are strategy sessions for the religious right.

Granted, I don't blame her for going. I think its about time the Dems won back the Evangelicals. How else do you eliminate homophobia? Bring them in and they will come around. They did on slavery and civil rights. It's only a matter of time.

And you act as if a candidate has to be squeaky clean. Man are you setting yourself up for a let down!

[William769]

39. I am quite certain I am not setting myself up for a let down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4055369

[jlake]

16. First of all, Obama backtracked on MJ - 2nd he appears to be very anti-gay.

[Uncle Sinister]

15. That is possibly the most insane thing I've ever read here

[William769]

17. And Obama is the most Insane person to vote for

For my personal rights as a Gay man.

[Uncle Sinister]

24. Yep, Romney would sure defend your rights...you betcha

[William769]

25. At least i know who my enemy is with him.

[Taverner]

37. Wow - thats just amazing in its stupidity

I'll vote for the bad guy because I know it will be him beating me with a stick....

[William769]

43. Call it what you want, thats the way it is.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

9. Obama is untested on the economy and bad on national security electorally AND realistically

[Taverner]

12. So are ALL of the candidates

The big question is who can learn on the job quickest? Both Clinton and Obama have good track records at that sort of thing.

[Bucky]

14. "Bad" doesn't cover it. I fucking hate Lee Mercer. If he's the nominee....

I'm voting Green with the other morons!

[MonkeyFunk]

20. Not at all

I think Obama would make a fine candidate and a fine president. I prefer Clinton, though.

But I know I'm in the minority here.

[Taverner]

34. Come on, there's lots of sane Hillary supporters here

I, for one, am not judging any candidate by the stupidity of some of their supporters.

[Uncle Sinister]

23. Whoever we nomnate, I will campaign my ass off to help elect.

The differences btw Barak and Hill are more about style than substance, and the differences between either and the repubs are stark and clear.

I honestly think both Obama and Clinton have the potential to be good presidents (though I still think Edwards would have been best)

To my deep shame I didn't campaign for Kerry very hard...a mistake that I (and many dems) will regret forever.

Won't make that mistake again. We've got to take this country back, no matter who our nominee turns out to be.

[Taverner]

31. Yep and anyone who doesn't is not a democrat

If anyone says "I'm not voting for Hillary if she wins" or "I'm not voting for Barack if he wins" then they are a tool, and shouldn't vote ever. They are obviously too stupid to fill in a bubble or punch a chad. They should do the right thing and get sterilized. Keep that stupidity from reproducing.

[Lyric]

26. I'm a Hillary supporter, and I don't think Obama would be a bad President

The two are so close together on the meat of the issues that my preference really came down to two things: Obama and the McClurkin fiasco, and the fact that Hillary is the very first viable female candidate that we've ever had. Since I was pissed at Obama for what I felt like was a deep betrayal of the GLBT community, I didn't think that Edwards could win the general election, and I desperately want to see the last major glass ceiling for women in this nation broken, I chose Hillary.

But then again, I will vote for whoever gets the nomination--even if it *is* Obama. ANY Democrat is better than ANY Republican, period, and I think the people who whine about how Clinton is "no different than a Republican" are just as idiotic as the Nader voters who said similar things back in 2000. The President doesn't go to Washington and wave a Magic Happy-Making Wand to instantly fix things--the President is there to deal with foreign policy, run the Executive branch, nominate Supreme Court justices, oversee the military, and help Congress come up with good policy changes--ALL of which are things that any of our Dem candidates could do a thousand times better than any Republican. Congress does the VAST majority of the "fixing things", and I look to Congress for the bulk of my wishes in that direction, just as our Founding Fathers intended.

Hillary Clinton is a tough lady--I'm looking forward to watching what she does if she gets the nomination. As for Obama, if he sincerely apologizes for the insult to the GLBT community, I'll be 100% behind him in 2016. :)

[Taverner]

32. Yep

[Guava Jelly]

38. I like both candidates

I just believe Obama has a better shot of beating McCain

[redqueen]

40. No... they're not my preferred candidates, of course... but whatever.

Any Dem is better than any repuke. That's just all there is to it.

[Raffi Ella]

41. "The only bad outcome I can see is a Republican winning."

:dem: