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Jeff Koopersmith: Why Barack Obama Should Not Win on Super Tuesday

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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:21 AM
Original message
Jeff Koopersmith: Why Barack Obama Should Not Win on Super Tuesday
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:23 AM by johnfunk
A think piece not only worth a read but that never rises to the sort of shrill internecine level too many bloggers (and, yes, DUers) have adopted:
The past seven years under the regime of George W. Bush have not helped. If anything, racism and bigotry is on the rise and bolstered by the phoniness flaunted by the Bush Administration and its maintenance men. The wink-and-nod signals from the White House and particularly from Bush cronies, mouthpieces, and supporters has been despicable. And then there's the de facto ethnic cleansing of New Orleans and for what? Follow the money: profit and partisan gain, working hand-in-hand.

It is Vernon Jordan who, thirty years ago, presciently warned the nation that America's dirty little secret, racism was alive and tumescent after Californians supposedly the most liberal Americans voted Yes on Proposition 13. It shredded property taxes and, along with them, almost every world-class social program the government-sponsored safety net apparatus, education, and the health care system, along with dozens of smaller but effective programs in the Golden State. Proposition 13 decimated the Black community for many years.

***

There are so many deals that have to be made so many different constituencies to serve. America is a far more complex and frail experiment in Democracy than one might think. More than this, Hillary Clinton paid a dear price to serve the American people, and she also paid personally for Bill's shenanigans a bigger price than did he. She paid that price for all of us. And, much to our horror, it should be remembered for all time that the impeachment-crazed reactionaries like Tom DeLay and Newt Gingrich, and Christian manipulators including John Whitehead, whose unspoken but obvious goal was to destroy the Clintons' marriage and family, proved Hillary Clinton's mettle, soul, and genuine family values. She stood by her husband. She will stand by us not only in good times but when our chips are down.

Don't underestimate this trait. Dont make fun of something we have far too little of in this world today loyalty and empathy combined with good intellect and heart.

***

Let me tell you what the Republican Party is apt to do with Obama as the Democrat candidate for president:

First, they begin whats called whispering campaigns. These black-box campaigns have been around a very long time. You've no doubt heard about the bogus, fact-free Obama went to a Madrassa e-mail that has been circulating. Believe me, that is nothing compared to what is to come. The next one will be engineered to get voters wondering, quietly, what Obama might do if black Americans began demanding more attention like in New Orleans or worse, what if black Americans were pushed, by the very same Neocon bigots, into rioting in the cities where many are shunted into slums that rival Mexico City.
Full article starts here.
ON EDIT: Fixed first link...
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for your concern.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. "Thank you for your blinders"
That's what the Repubs are saying.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Uh no thanks
we'll take our chances with Obabma-hey what happens when Murdock releases the names of all the women Bill has been sleeping with for the last 8 years or so? You think that's going to help HRC in the eyes of strong women everywhere? I think not
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. "Hey what happens when Murdock releases the names...
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:50 AM by johnfunk
... of all the women Bill has been sleeping with for the last 8 years or so?"


Simple: Republican men become more jealous. And Joe Six-pack likes and admires Bill even more: they love a stick man. That's why Clinton nabbed approval ratings of 68% and 72% from two different polsters on the day he was impeached.

Besides: Bill isn't running. But he'll make a great secretary of state – and I'd bet you a buck that's the first appointment made public by President-elect Obama! Visualize John Bolton's head exploding...



For the record, I am likely to vote for Obama.

Koopersmith, however, has points that are worthy of scrutiny and consideration.

ON EDIT: Succumbed to temptation; added Bolton's exploding head.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. That's living in fear John
screw that bro-we went through 8 years of an idiot and his minions trying to scare the crap out of us-time to embrace hope. There's this AA saying that goes; Fear knocked on the door, Faith answered-no one was there
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. GOBAMA
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. So the two reasons:
1. Hillary the Democratic Martyr totally deserves it. Republicans were mean to her, and she proved she has family values.
2. Obama is black, and they'll totally bring that up. We can't elect a black guy. Because he's black, and nobody will vote for blacks.

Yeah, I think that's pretty fucking shrill.
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
29. Looks like you cannot read
Koopersmith didn't say such a thing - not even hint at it.

He said the tturh - That Obama can't win because of bigotry
and racism that has increased under that BUsh moron.  The
same people that keep that idiot in the white house will make
certain to keep Barack out!  And I think Obama konws it. 
Don't be fools and waste you vote now.  
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. And so, after the insult, you repeat what I said back at me.
No shit the Republicans will try to keep Barack out. They'll try to keep Clinton out, too. And they'll fail and fail badly. Claiming a vote for the black guy is "wasted" is ridiculous.
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. YOU say its wasted -
Koopersmith didn't say that.  I've been reading his articles
for a couple years now.  You would know better if you had. 
Look how careful he is about Barack.  He seems sad to me that
this is the case - not - as you say claiming that the vote is
wasted. It's not wasted - it's just not good for the nation
to end up with another Bush!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Um, no, you did. In the last line of your prior post.
Also, stop formatting in plain text. It's distracting.
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. You are right - i am red in the face
I didn't mean wasted in that sense though - I really know what these storm troopers can do and our nation won't do a thing to stop them!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Thanks for your concern. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your short stay!
:eyes:
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. That's the sort of reaction one expects from Free Republic
If you have a problem with a new member, just contact a mod -- and cut the snark, especially the type that might make you sound puerile, petty, and more at home in JimRob's yard.

And Cheg, whio might have more artfully worded his warning, does have a point -- there have been Neocons and even a few old-school Paleocons trolling here. Worse yet, a a few of the normally sensible and always well-intentioned activists in this forum are starting to (unwittingly) play into Neocon machinations by letting their passions override their frontal lobe.

I do not exaggerate -- the Neocon-Petrogarchy-Dominionist AmeriKKKan "Asses of Evil" will do ANYTHING to hold onto power -- including effective deployment of the race card now that the rubes that make up the GOP base are getting (Neo-) conned into hating on both "uppity blacks" and "nefarious moozelims" (for the record, I've seen this exact wording at both Libery Post and Free Republic).
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
57. Thanks for your concern too. nt
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. As one commenter above said, "Thank you for your blinders."
And have a nice day. then think, for once.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. Unbelievable! Don't vote for Barack because he's black and this
country is too racist to elect a black man? That's just disgusting.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, according to OP, "Don't vote for the black guy" isn't "shrill."
What a load.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. I think racism is the dirty little secret in this country--lots of inroads have
been made--but it still exists.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. That'sNOT what Koopersmith is saying. Go read the whole piece.
He's predicting Obama as prez in 2012 or 2016. READ THE WHOLE PIECE.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. It's difficult to get people to read something that might educate them. nt
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
52. for many-the goal is to smear--education is NOT on their radar screen.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. I did read the whole piece. And he's very clearly saying don't vote
for Obama because the Republicans are racists and will smear him in the media. You think these racists are going to have an epiphany 8 years from now? Those folks aren't going to play nice --- ever, so it's a stupid rationale.
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. I sort of agree...
But I thought about it.  It's not a stupid rationale. 
Koopersmith is saying that the bet on the table is that we
rid ourselves of the Republicpuke neocons once and for all. 
I think he's right - they will try to cruficy Obama now and
we will end up with someone worse than BUsh perhaps. Remember
- McCain is not the winner, not yet and maybe not ever. 
Hillary Clinton is on our side - even if she has made some
mistakes.  We know we can win with her - we shoudl know that
we can't fight the racsists and win with Barack.  God I wish
we could
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. BE CAREFUL - THEIR ARE NEOCON OPERATIVES ON THIS PAGE
They are generally the ones urging you to vote for Obama.  I
can tell you that there is nothing the GOP wants more than
Obama as the Dem candidate. Nothing.  Even Huckabee might
beat him.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. LMAO: "NEOCON OPERATIVES have infiltrated DU and are supporting Obama!"
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
50. Cute graphic... BUT...
There have been Neocons and even a few old-school Paleocons trolling here. Worse yet, a a few of the normally sensible and always well-intentioned activists in this forum are starting to (unwittingly) play into Neocon machinations by letting their passions override their frontal lobe. See reply #49 for my full point. Better a tinfoil-hatter who wants the Neocons purged from the Beltway than a "pure" DUer who diminishes the threat.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Uh huh. And that's why Obama is out-polling McCain?
Did Jeff ever consider that where there is a backlash, there can be a backlash against the backlash?
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Obama's polling better now, but what happens once the Wylys, Pickenses...
... and other Swift Boater types enter the picture after the Republican Convention?

Go read the whole piece...
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. I don't know
but I'd imagine a person with high negatives already, would do worse against those type of attacks than a person with low negatives.


And if a person has strong crossover, the right has to pull it's punches, for fear of losing even more ground.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. Some of us are ready for teh Pickens
:hi:
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
43. It looks to me like he did - and has many times in other articles

This comment that Obama is out-polling McCain is just what Koopersmith is concerned about. Obama was outpolling HIllary Clinton in Florida too! That is why he pointed out Tom Bradley in California. The same thing happened there. Twice, I worked on the BRadley governor campaign. We all thought he won - the polls said so. He didn't. The polls cannot be trusted on this issue - they have been totally wrong in every Obama poll. The people lie about their bigotry - this has been proved time and time again. Stop putting your head in the sand. And the idea that there can be a backlash against a backlash is fine - but it is not backlashes that win elections
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. "Obama was outpolling HIllary Clinton in Florida too! " Really?
I'd like to see the polls.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
47. He may be out-polling McCain for now... but wait for the general. The media...
... is in the pocket of the GOP -- and not just FOX News. Disney (ABC) uses their gay-friendly corporate culture as a beard to conceal their hard-right leanings (can you say Sean Hannity, Disney ABC Radio Superstar?) And don't get me started about NBC or MSNBC (which stands for "Make Sure Nobody Believes Clinton"), currently infested with Rumpkinhead, Tweety and Andrea Greenspan (yeah, MSNBC has Olbermann, but that hardly balances Jack Welch's Handpicked Heathers of the Village).
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. So vote clinton cause
Obama is black and hillary has been picked on?

Pretty sad reasoning there.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
48. "So vote Clinton cause Obama is black and Hillary has been picked on?"
Um, no.

Just go read the entire piece.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hillary Clinton's life has been about political calculation. She stayed with Bill for politics.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:35 AM by sparosnare
Yeah, I know she fought the Republican hate machine for years (as she says), but it certainly wasn't responsible for any problems in her marriage (that would be Bill and even her). They have a 20 year pact; she helps him, he helps her. Pure politics.

She calls GW a nice man and claims she is good friends with McCain.

The biggest vote of her Senatorial career was a gross error in judgement.

She has accepted more money from the insurance and pharma cos. than any other Dem (and she wants to fix healthcare?!?)

Hillary is part of what's wrong with this country and justifying her 'entitlement' to the WH by portraying her as a victim and then a valiant warrior is ludicrous.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Making abusive ASSumptions of her marriage is uncalled for!--
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. It's not an assumption. It has been written about and talked about for years. n/t
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Who did the first mind-meld with her to discover it? nt
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
51. It is still an ASSumption--which you take to be the truth!! --
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Moreover, let's look at the real culprits: DeLay, John Whitehead...
Bill Bennett, Susan Carpenter "Poster Child for Botox" McMillan, Donovan Campbell, Jerry Falwell...

Koopersmith is 100% right about Clinton's family issues.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Don't doubt the Wisdom of the Marketplace!
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:48 AM by Pigwidgeon
When a million people believe and say the same thing, it's almost always true!

Hillary's a lier. Everybody knows it, so why deny it?

Its like Woman's Instituition. We just KNOW.

--p!
Now supporting the WINNER against the lies of Billory -- BARACK OBAMA!
YES
WE
CAN
!
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. I agree with everything you said except for the part about biggest Senate vote.
Though I think the IWR vote was totally political and dictated by personal ambition, she shares that with Kerry, Edwards, Dodd and Biden. They all had presidential ambitions and voted for the IWR to protect themselves from the "soft on defense" charge.

They, I think correctly, figured that either way the war went they were being smart politically (I stress "politically" not morally or humanely). If the war went quickly and well, like the first Gulf war, they would be on the "winning" side, not that of the "whiny anti-war left".

If the war went badly (as it has), they could claim that they were lied to and fooled by the Bush administration. (The fact that other Senate Democrats without apparent presidential ambitions didn't by the lies and "foolery" could be papered over.) As you can see with Kerry winning the 2004 nomination and Clinton still apparently the front runner for this nomination, it was not a bad a "gross error in judgment" if you believe that her goal (and that of Kerry, Edwards and the others) was to run for the presidency.

It was only an "error in judgment" if you look at it from an dead soldiers and Iraqi civilians and international law perspective (which I do), but many Hillary supporters feel this is "yesterday's news" which is how Hillary's campaign would have hoped (back in 2002) that they would by 2008.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. So, let the racists win without fighting.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:41 AM by Mass
Nobody should vote for Obama because of his race, but those who vote against him because he is black and cannot win only perpetuate racism.

SAme thing for those who vote against Hillary because she is a woman and cannot win. They perpetuate sexism.

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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. That's not what Koopersmith is saying at all. Go read the piece
There IS a way to beat the racists.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. I am reminded of something I read somewhere, maybe on DU/
"The man who can read doesn't has nothing over the man who can't." (May not be exact but this is the sense of it. Stuck with me.)
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. That is true, but you should apply it yourself and read the article.
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
23. For some people in this country those are reasons to vote MCCain!
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:49 AM by demo dutch
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
35. Oh sob. St Hillary of the Stained Dress suffered for us all
a martyr to the lustful appetites of Bill. And America is too racist to vote for a black man.

Less than a compelling argument you posted there, john.
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JohnCheg Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
36. CAREFUL - THEIR ARE NEOCON OPERATIVES ON THIS PAGE

They are generally the ones urging you to vote for Obama. I
can tell you that there is nothing the GOP wants more than
Obama as the Dem candidate. Nothing. Even Huckabee might
beat him.

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. 5 posts and already calling out other DUers. Enjoy your stay.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. I see little wrong with calling out a DUer who clearly has not read the piece.
And there is a point to be made about some Democrats being witting and unwitting operatives for the Wolfowitz-Wurmser-Bolton wing of the GOP.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Well, apparently, you did not read the piece, because it said exactly what I said it was saying.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 11:18 AM by Mass
And if you and the author want to capitulate face to racism, do it. (or it is another Clinton spin and it is even worse). I wont. So long.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #46
63. Supporting a perceptually stronger candidate is not capitulating to racism.
And to be honest, BOTH Obama and Clinton will prove stronger than McCain if Democrats stay on message -- and start questioning Mccain's age, temperament and fitness to serve.

Yes, fitness to serve. You should talk to some of my friends on the hill. The horror stories about McCain's short temper are not only legendary but a bit more than worrisome.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Some of them have only five posts, too.
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hell-bent Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
60. I have only nine posts
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 01:09 PM by hell-bent
and I proudly voted for President Hillary Clinton!
Do you have a problem with that?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
53. Yeah, sorry.
I think not voting for somebody because they're black is a dumb, racist reason.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
54. I don't think that it's true that racism has grown under Bush.
I agree that the racists had a friend in GW, but I don't think their numbers increased.
I don't see a good reason not to vote for Obama. I don't see a good reason to vote for Hillary
other than the same tired stuff about how much sit she has taken. I'm glad she's held up.
I still don't want her as President
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
55. Sorry to break it to you, but an opinion piece is not gospel.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
56. "She paid that price for all of us"?
WTF does that mean?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
58. We paid the damn price, not Hillary!
This article is wrong on so many levels, till it ain't even funny. Whomever is writing this needs to get a reality check! :thumbsdown:

Hillary Clinton paid a dear price to serve the American people, and she also paid personally for Bill's shenanigans a bigger price than did he. She paid that price for all of us.

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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Sorry, but he's right. Hillary, and Bill, were the targets of DeLay, Whitehead...
... and the rest of the thugs -- not YOU or ME.

And who paid? Hillary and Bill -- and, thankfully, Newt Gingrich and Bob Livingston, two of the most corrupt politicians of this generation.
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