I Dont Want to Call Some White Southern Dems Racists, but its Obvious that race is a factor

[MadBadger]

The reason I post this is because during SC, it was believed that Obama had problem getting white voters and that there was a racial divide. I always knew this wasnt true and wrote it off as it just being the south, and that is true. You look at states like California, Idaho, Utah, and you see that Obama does very well with white people, but he just doesnt do well in the South. Now I'm not flat out calling some whites in the south racists, but it is plainly clear that some do not feel comfortable voting for a black man. FOr those who want to say the same things about blacks in the south, you know that isnt true. They have been supporting white candidates for President since the days that they were able to vote. It just isnt the same thing. Besides the South, it is clear, Obama does not have a white problem, and there is NO racial divide in this election

[melody]

1. It's not southern culture, it's evangelical culture that holds in racism

Even with some people who'd normally cross the line on economic terms, they've lived in this culture of primitive thinking
that is maintained by the fundie movement there. While many people are racist, intelligent people know better than to accept uncritically their racist reactions and think through them. The less educated one is (and education is a big boogeyman in
southern religious culture), the more one is likely to do that.

[Duke Newcombe]

3. yes, those....

...knuckle dragging fundies can't move beyond their upbringing...:sarcasm:

Just my observation--do you believe disrespecting people who otherwise might find common accord with you (southern evangelical Democrats, or all evangelicals in general) to be a productive strategy? I ask for informational purposes only.

Duke

[melody]

4. Clearly, I'm talking about *racist* fundamentalists NOT the ones who've moved beyond it

You'd think that would be obvious but some people feel the need to read out of context and take offense. ;)

[Duke Newcombe]

5. Really?

"It's not southern culture, it's evangelical culture that holds in racism"

These are your words, not mine. And yes, I do indeed take offense to sub rosa religious intolerance, or disrespect.

If someone said the same thing you did about say, people raised in say, Jewish or Muslim religious culture, would be still be having this conversation?

I'm waiting for someone to say, but not "them"...they're _good_ evangelicals...just like the tired, bigoted "good negro" label assigned to those that adhere to the prevailing behavioral norms and beliefs of white society.


Duke

[melody]

8. Do you know how many times I've made that exact same argument here?

I was speaking in context. It is white, racist, KKK evangelical culture that holds in racism. ANY evangelical
culture that ISN'T conducive to racism is by its very nature excluded.

Read a post in the context of the thread, not just reading at random because you're offended by the subject line.

There is no structure of belief within southern culture -- it's too divisive and individualized. For that, you need
to go to evangelical/fundamentalist churches. Those that don't embrace racism openly (the Southern New Evangelicals,
and etc) do not by default. I was talking about racist ones.

[Duke Newcombe]

9. It reads great now...

>I was speaking in context. It is white, racist, KKK evangelical culture that holds in racism. ANY evangelical
>culture that ISN'T conducive to racism is by its very nature excluded.

It reads great now, since you've moved the goal posts by throwing in KKK, and equating it with evangelical culture. Of course, if this is a mistake of your not being specific to begin with, it's all good. However, in view of the entire "context" of the thread, I think your words were intentional.

I guess I'm questioning why it appears to me you make a broad correlation of evangelicalism and racism. Again, I ask for information purposes only, not for entertainment purposes.

Duke

[melody]

14. You're someone in pursuit of a pointless argument -- welcome to my ignore list n/t

[BootinUp]

11. I disagree.

racism goes across religious lines by definition and in reality as well. Also, I do not see Evangelicals pushing racial issues, I do see them try to attract minorities into their fold.

[melody]

15. I have fundamentalist and non-fundie southern relatives

The fundamentalists who are racist couch their biases in terms of church teaching -- be it ethnic
racism or homophobia or gender bias. It's mainly rooted, imho, in that far-right evangelical southern
culture. You look for the source near where the trend is most strong -- there are still black churches
and white churches in that community. Religion itself (in its fundamentalist form) is founded on reactionary,
accepted notions. So is bigotry. The far-right church is the most powerful force in many southern communities.

All that said, the southern churches have also given us many great progressives.

[Duke Newcombe]

6. something tells me John...

...wouldn't be cool with this mindset.

Duke

[PassingFair]

2. They don't like uppity women down there, either.

So its kind of a crap shoot.

[loveangelc]

7. I guess race is still a factor in the South. It's unfortunate but hopefully it will come around...

remember that Obama carried under 30 white vote heavily in SC.

[tishaLA]

10. Race is a factor, to greater or lesser degrees, everywhere n/t

[jackson_dem]

13. There are two minority governors in America

One is from Massachusetts. The other? He is a rethuglican from Louisana and won with very little minority support. Is the theory that southern rethugs are less racist than white Democrats in the South? This is the Obamite, and perhaps the off the record excuse the Obama campaign itself will use to explain Obama's poor performance with whites in the South after Super Tuesday?

[jackson_dem]

12. This thread is representative of a big reason Obama tanked with southern white DEMOCRATS

The race card (which I believe both celebrity candidate's used). If you don't vote for him, you're a racist!

There are two minority governors in America. One is the governor of a southern state and is a rethug. Are you telling me southern rethugs are less racist than southern Democrats? Remember what the southern strategy was all about and why the South became rethug in the first place? Obama is also not the first black to run in the South. Harold Ford won 40% of the white vote in 2006. The only other Democrats to run in the South that year were in Texas and Virginia. Both were white. In Texas the Democrat got 30% and James Webb in Virginia got 42%. Yes James Webb. The great defender of rural, white working class folks and their culture got only 2% more of the white vote than a black guy in Tennessee. Much of Webb's white support came from northern Virginia, which resembles the northeast more than the South. It is almost certain that Webb did worse in the rest of the state than Ford did among whites in his state.

The fact is white Democrats in the South are as likely to vote for someone of their color as black Democrats are (how do you think St. Obama won South Carolina? He ran third, sixteen points behind Edwards among whites but beat Edwards, a man with a flawless record on black issues running a populist campaign that was the first to target poverty in decades, by 77 points among blacks.). I don't see Obamites calling the latter racist. We know why: because they are voting "correctly", that is for St. Obama. If someone dares to vote against him there must be a sinister reason. How could one not be swayed by a compelling message of "hope and change"?

Do I believe racism is a factor? Yes. The results are too fucked up to be statistical flukes (Edwards' SC performance is the best example). Do I think most southern Democrats, of both colors are racist? No. I think identity politics is a factor nationally (for example what substantive things does Hillary offer women that Obama doesn't and Edwards didn't?) and an even bigger factor in the South. This is partly due to the decision of the Obama camp to inject race into the campaign (Obama did it first).

[zabet]

16. Backhand stroke with that brush once

and acknowledge that Obama is
pulling the majority of the black
vote anywhere due to racism. :eyes:

Why is it ok to continually call white
people racist and not call black people
racist? Racism is not hatred of blacks,
it is hatred of any race not your own.