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Did you vote for Kerry/Edwards in 04? Even though they both voted for the IWR?

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:40 PM
Original message
Poll question: Did you vote for Kerry/Edwards in 04? Even though they both voted for the IWR?
I was just thinking about Obama trying to slam Hillary for her vote on the IWR, a vote he himself has said he didn't know how he would have voted, yet at the same time have Kerry, who voted just like Hillary did, campaigning by his side.

Which brought me to this question. With all the yelling about Hillary's vote on the IWR here, I'm wondering how many Democrats here voted for the Democratic ticket in 04, and how it was ok to set aside Kerry and Edwards votes then, but not Hillary's now.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. That was the general election. I didn't vote for either of them
in the primaries.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll set aside Clinton's Iraq vote in the general election if she wins.
However, I am not going to vote for her in the primaries. I also supported and voted for Dean in '04. Your point doesn't work, because most here WILL vote for Clinton if she is the nominee. So it would be better to ask us who we supported in the '04 primaries.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Held my nose and did.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not in the primary, though. I'm a Deaniac.
In the general, there was no other choice.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, in the GE. I voted Dean in the primaries.
And I cringed when I heard Kerry's "I voted for the war before I voted against it." I knew that would doom us the moment I heard it.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary lied about her vote for war in the last debate. Some people
don't care.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Primaries (apples) do not equal GE (oranges)
I believe most of DU will support the eventual nominee, just as we did in '04.
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Obama wasn't "present" so he didn't vote!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not in the primaries. and that's what this is about.
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MoJoWorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. But both Kery and Edwards ADMITTED they had been wrong to vote for IWR.
She refuses to admit her mistake, so I refuse to vote for her. A leader must be willing to admit to a mistake now and then.

We have a much better candidate in Obama, anyway; so right now I don't have to make that choice.

Oh yes, and YOU KNOW WHY Obama said the "I don't know how I would have voted" quote during the convention--- to cover Kerry's ass on that vote-- so quit using those tired old excuses to cover Hillary's.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yeah, that "I was for the war, before I was against it" won him the Presidency.
Oh wait, he LOST!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. I was miserable that I had to, but I could not let Nader gain anything by my not voting and
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 01:50 PM by higher class
I thought anyone Dem had to stick with some of the things I wanted, even if it wasn't my version of gaining peace. I ended up euphoric about voting that day and expected a different outcome, but I still had my doubts about more war.

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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. the point is Kerry was slammed for "being for...against" yadda yadda, why...
go down this path again? The same shit will happen to Clinton - she'll be called a two faced, hypocrite. End of story.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kerry, unlike Hillary, spoke out against Bush several times before Bush invaded.
including this speech at Georgetown University on Thursday, January 23, 2003

As our government conducts one war and prepares for another, I come here today to make clear that we can do a better job of making our country safer and stronger. We need a new approach to national security - a bold, progressive internationalism that stands in stark contrast to the too often belligerent and myopic unilateralism of the Bush Administration. I offer this new course at a critical moment for the country that we love, and the world in which we live and lead. Thanks to the work and sacrifice of generations who opposed aggression and defended freedom, for others as well as ourselves, America now stands as the world's foremost power. We should be proud: Not since the age of the Romans have one people achieved such preeminence. But we are not Romans; we do not seek an empire. We are Americans, trustees of a vision and a heritage that commit us to the values of democracy and the universal cause of human rights. So while we can be proud, we must be purposeful and mindful of our principles: And we must be patient - aware that there is no such thing as the end of history. With great power, comes grave responsibility.

<...>
Second, without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America's response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world's response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.

So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War. Regrettably the current Administration failed to take the opportunity to bring this issue to the United Nations two years ago or immediately after September 11th, when we had such unity of spirit with our allies. When it finally did speak, it was with hasty war talk instead of a coherent call for Iraqi disarmament. And that made it possible for other Arab regimes to shift their focus to the perils of war for themselves rather than keeping the focus on the perils posed by Saddam's deadly arsenal. Indeed, for a time, the Administration's unilateralism, in effect, elevated Saddam in the eyes of his neighbors to a level he never would have achieved on his own, undermining America's standing with most of the coalition partners which had joined us in repelling the invasion of Kuwait a decade ago.

In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing. But the burden is also clearly on the Bush Administration to do the hard work of building a broad coalition at the U.N. and the necessary work of educating America about the rationale for war. As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.


Kerry has never wavered in calling out Bush on his immoral war, and he led the effort to set a deadline for withdrawal

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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. OK I have said this a number of times
BUT it is really getting on my last freaking nerve

HE DID NOT VOTE AGAINST IT - WE WILL NEVER KNOW FOR SURE HOW HE WOULD HAVE VOTED

he has said he wouldn't have and he has also said he isn't sure how he would have voted - so it sounds like HE doesn't even know for sure how he would have voted.

my gut tells me he would have voted the same damn way as Kerry, Clinton, Edwards, Biden and Dodd

the only FAIR way to compare the Iraq issue is to compare their Senate votes when they both had the opportunity to vote at the same time same issue - and from what I understand they are about tied there

also if you think Obama would get us out faster have at it

But using the IWR vote against her in the contest between the two of them is just not FAIR and I believe completely intellectually dishonest.

AND for the record I don't like either one of them - so I'm not posting this in favor of Hillary - I'm posting this in favor of intellectual honesty....
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