Authorizing A War is NOT The Same As Funding It

[IndieLeft]

Every time someone says Hillary voted for the IWR and Obama spoke out against it, you get a barrage of comments on how Obama repeatedly voted to fund it.

I find it amazing that rather than come to grips with the fact that Hillary made a huge mistake, you have to change the subject and attack Obama. For the record, Hillary was right along side him voting to fund it the whole way.

What were they supposed to do? I know you all say just cut off the funds, but seriously, with as vindictive as he is, do you really think that would have forced him to bring the troops home?

Hell no! He would have left them over there to fend for themselves, and then turned around and blamed the Democrats for abandoning them.

You know he would have. He had absolutely no intention of ending this thing before his term was up. You all know that. It's time for you to admit it.

I know it sucks... She blew it. But the facts are the facts, and no amount of posturing is going to change that.

[ErnestoG]

1. Exactly.

And notice that none of her supporters here appear to demand from her what needs to happen - an apology for her IWR vote.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. This is the green party's only issue & it's already worn out.

[IndieLeft]

3. It's not a "party" issue. It's an "American" issue

There is a difference, or have you forgotten that?

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. A green campaign issue. And a worthless one at that.

[IndieLeft]

31. You are a Democrat.... right?

I mean, this is Democratic Underground? right?

I would never have thought that I would come on here and listen to people say the IWR was just... nothing.

[Moochy]

33. The technical term for those people is Liars

[ErnestoG]

4. Tell that to any family who lost someone in Iraq.

And report back to us, that is, if you're still conscious.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Okay, I give up, Hillary is responsible for the Iraq war.

You win. If it weren't for her there would have been no war. The blame is hers. Now, those families can live in peace.

[ErnestoG]

9. Partially. And she won't admit it. Very unstatesmanlike behavior.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. Nope, it's all or nothing. It's either her war or it isn't.

No fucking partial blame.

[IndieLeft]

30. Well, if that's how you want it, then she can have all the blame.

That's fine with me. Nice to see the mentality I am dealing with.

[IndieLeft]

13. It's amazing how callous you can be about this.

This is a serious situation. It is not something to joke about.

[Tarc]

16. Fix your broken priorities

The Bush administration lied to Congress and to the American public about the intel they had on Hussein. Blame them, not her.

[IndieLeft]

27. I do blame them, but she bares the blame as well

It's not as if it was a unanimous vote. The people who bothered to do their homework got it right.

I got it right. And I didn't need an intelligence report to see they were lying to us.

[Tarc]

39. Armchair quarterbacking always seems pretty easy, eh?

[The_Casual_Observer]

17. You & the greens have reduced it to a cheap campaign theme.

[IndieLeft]

35. Her lack of an apology has fed it.

Her inability to admit she was wrong, and if nothing less than out of respect for the fallen, offer a heartfelt apology; not just political spin.

[aquart]

21. Ah. They blame Hillary and not Bush. Right.

So your contempt for your fellow Americans extends to military families?

[IndieLeft]

38. Excuse Me?

What are you talking about?

Oh, you talking to someone else... sorry

[Yossariant]

5. There's a differnce between authorizing force and shock and awe. Hillary did not send one soldier

to Iraq.

Kucincih isn't running.

[FrenchieCat]

7. The votes for the IWR gave Bush the legitimacy he needed....

which is why he aimed for the Blank check.

Those who voted for it are complicit.

If he wouldn't have gotten a majority, he couldn't have gone in. Period.

[Yossariant]

22. And it would have passed no matter how she or Edwards voted.

[Whisp]

29. so why the needless vote?

[IndieLeft]

32. At least Edwards had the integrity to admit he was wrong.

integrity, fortitude, intelligence, compassion....

At least he could admit it, and not be afraid to say it.

[IndieLeft]

8. Her vote certainly did send hundreds of thousands to Iraq

many of whom are no longer with us, and many more who are seriously injured. How can you defend that?

[Yossariant]

18. MOST VOTERS agreed with her. It is what it is. Sobbing can't change yesterday.

[IndieLeft]

34. You are right, sobbing can't change yesterday

But an apology could change tomorrow.

[Moochy]

10. HRC Supporters agree with Pat Buchanan's take on IWR

To apologize would be to show "weakness" to the "left" and hurt her in the general. cuz yah so many love the war!

[aquart]

19. I'm thinking you should not speak for us.

Speak for yourself. For your friends if they'll let you. For your family. But not for people you despise. Not for people you have none of Barack's famous "empathy" for.

Don't talk about what you do not comprehend.

[Moochy]

24. I just took you off ignore to reply

"people you despise"

liars, assholes, pro-war democrats like you.

Back to ignore, sweethart. Alphabetically speaking you are #1 on my ignore list.

[FightTheRight89]

12. I agree wholeheartedly.

[aquart]

15. Welcome to DU.

So you justify voting for funding the war but not voting for a variety of options including military action.

Because you believe this nation would accept Bush's story of abandoning our troops because the Democrats are meanies.

Which, naturally, is the best reason for a war opposer NOT to take a stand. At the only opportunity he has to take a stand: when a funding vote comes up.

Did Hillary "blow it" when she voted for IWR? Hell, yes. I have never said otherwise. But you shouldn't have tried to justify Obama's all talk no action on the war at the same time.

That man is way too anxious to please to vote a principled NO on the only leverage Congress has against the war in Iraq. But we should vote for him, because when he's president, THEN he'll stand up and do something. Funding bills come up all the time because Iraq eats money. I don't follow Barry's votes. Surely he voted no sometime? Some day when everyone voted yes, Barry Obama stood tall and voted NO! on fueling this murderous mess? Tell me when that vote was.

[IndieLeft]

23. Once again...

If they refused to fund the war, Bush would have just left the troops over there and let the money run dry, and then blame the democrats in congress/senate.

Instead of having a wave of support, and winning back the house and senate in 06, we'd be in even a bigger hole then what we started with.

You won't hear me slam hillary for funding the war, they had no choice. They HAD to fund the war.

At the same time, you cannot say that you got tricked into voting for the war, and then expect to have the credibility to be president.


OH, and thanks for the welcome. It's.... really interesting.

[joshcryer]

20. No, it's worse given a candidates stance on voting "no" or "present" on something they don't like.

Obama could've easily voted "present" on those funding votes, but he chose not to for political reasons, just as more than half of the Democratic congress voted for the IWR for political reasons. Had they not done it the GOP would own the Senate and Bush would've won in a landslide in 2004.

[IndieLeft]

25. That's just Illinois politics

They can't vote present in the US senate.

[joshcryer]

26. Could've voted no like Planned Parenthood had him do...

[IndieLeft]

36. Once again... You're missing my point

And I'm not going to type it a third time.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

28. The IWR was Joseph Lieberman's effing bill

He was the Chief sponsor of it in the Senate. He came up with a bogus blank check that placed no restrictions on the President. The IWR specifically says the President could use the military "as he deems necessary and appropriate" and all he had to do was report to Congress that he decided to go to war, which he did in a letter. And under the War Powers Act, the President can send U.S. troops into combat for 60 days without the Congress declaring war, with another 30 day extension.

How anyone could vote with Joseph Lieberman for a war bill and how anyone could defend those who supported Joseph Lieberman's legislation is beyond me.

The issue of whether or not to fund the war is more complicated, what with the thought that weapons, ammunition, flak vests, helmets and other materiel vital to keep the soldiers alive is part of the equation.

[IndieLeft]

37. Lieberman disgusts me.... How the hell did he end up re-elected?

And now he's probably going to be on McCain's ticket. I hope he does, I really hope McCain chooses him as a running mate, just so I can see him kill another campaign. He owes us that much.