The Nader excuse is getting old. It was really stupid to begin with...

[inthebrain]

The idea that Edwards is playing spoiler is absolutely freaking retarded. This goes to show that people using the Nader excuse in 2000 had no fucking clue what they were talking about then and have no clue what they are talking about now. As a matter of fact, I find it the most undemocratic lines of reasoning not to mention a complete sham of an excuse when used back then.

Without delving into the 2000 election there are three reasons why that election went the way it did;

1)Voter disenfranchisement.

2)Voter Fraud (Bush getting votes from people who voted for Gore)

3)The Supreme Court.

I would also like to add a third in that there were senators that refused to sign on with the Democratic Black Caucaus to investigate this stuff. Not to mention repeal the election results. The Nader excuse is fucking stupid and anyone thinking that those votes for Nader would have given Gore the win need to get their head checked. Just like all those other Gore votes going to Bush those would have also.

There are many folks who use this excuse that have a "so what" attitude and that people should just vote for the Democrat. Lets just sweep all this stuff under the rug. REALITY CHECK!!! It is up to the candidate to earn those votes. Votes are not handed out by default because you just happen to be the other guy in the race. If you are expecting "default votes" while not sticking up for the people who do vote for you then you deserve to lose and election despite all evidence pointing to the fact that you won.

Edwards is not playing Nader. And for those that think I am coming from a position of bias here, I don't like John Edwards. As a matter of fact, I find him to be a fake and a total fruad. If the other candidates that were so worries about this actually challenged Edwards voting record then perhaps you might see a different outcome.

I've looked at Edwards record while he was in the senate. It's no different than what I would expect from Obama and Hillary. It's actually quite scary and leads one to suspect that what he's saying now is entirely disengenous.

Yeah, Edwards as an attorney "fought the corporations". When it meant getting a nice pay check for the deed the I suppose it mattered. As a senator I see none of this.

Either way, don't blame Edwards because your candidate is incapable of taking him on and calling him to task. Not that it would prop up Hillary and Obama as his superiors on these issues. The folks that were their betters on these issues have already been weeded out of the race.

And that fault is on the folks that vote and support candidates of the illusion of electability plattitudes put for by the disengenous corporate media. So in a sense, the people using the Nader excuse towards Edwards have created their own pickle on this issue.

The candidates really don't want to talk about this stuff becuase it reqires them to remove that plank from their eye as well.

My response to this stuff?

Enjoy the next eleven months. For the least five or six years we've discussed how the corporate media is disengenous and follows right wing talking points. Many just dismissed all that stuff and followed them down this rabbit hole of electability.

You get the candidates you deserve.

[robbedvoter]

1. Nader is scum. Edwards is no Nader in any way shape and form.

[Occam Bandage]

2. Nader is a waste of skin. Fuck him.

[OmahaBlueDog]

3. It's still the primaries. Edwards has every right to run.

Edwards is a viable candidate, he's on the ballot, and he has every right to keep seeking the nomination.

As for Nader in 2000, I'll agree about the court and the disenfranchisement, but numbers don't lie, and the numbers indicate he cost Gore Florida.

http://2act.org/p/33.html

Bottom line, I'll never forgive Nader or the Greens for advancing an agenda predicated on there being no difference between Bush and Gore. Clearly, there is/was a difference.

[inthebrain]

6. Those votes for Gore still would have gone to Bush

As they did statewide and the recount showed in that election just as it did in 2004.

The Greens never advanced and agenda that there were no difference. It was that differences were subtle. Either way, you would have had Leiberman as VP and he is campaigning for McCain. And if you think we would not be in Iraq today knowing that then I suggest you think again. The right wing Republicans would have pressured Gore as would have Lieberman and a lot of other folks. Including the right wing mouthpieces in the media.

Fact of the matter is that you can run all numbers you like. You really have to dismiss the impact the elections shennanigans had on that election to do that.

Blaming is Nader is dismissive of that.

Just as going after Ewdwards for the feckless campaigns and stances of Hillary and Obama. If they attacked Edwards on the issues he's taking ALL THREE OF THEM COME OFF LOOKING TERRIBLE.

At the end of the day I think you have yourselves to blame for the state of the primaries right now. If you fall for that Nader crap your just as susceptable to fall for any other excuse this party throws upstream at you.

And that's how we wound up here.

[On the Road]

4. Look No Further Than the Other Party

It seemed a mystery just a month ago why McCain didn't withdraw. Now it looks like he may be the nominee.

We have all seen how fast contenders can plummet with just one inapt phrase.

[Frances]

5. Whoever is saying that Edwards is like Nader is

extremely ignorant.

Nader ran against Gore and Kerry in general elections as an Independent.

Edwards is running against Hillary and Obama in the Dem primary as a Dem.

[inthebrain]

7. When people allow a lie to advance itself

they are to blame when they later fall victim to it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. And the significant difference is?

:shrug:

[Frances]

12. Do you mean to say

that you don't know the difference between a primary and a general election?

I can only assume that you have never voted before if you don't know the difference between those two elections.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Oh, I understand the difference.

But I'm looking for a significant one, ethically.

"I can only assume that you have never voted before if you don't know the difference between those two elections."

Do you understand the term "strawman?"

[Frances]

17. I do understand the term strawman

I think you were trying to tell us something when you chose your screen name too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. That I'm a Wyclef Jean fan?

Indeed, I am.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. Apples and oranges

Edwards can't be a spoiler right now, this is the primaries, and he's running a legitimate campaign. Nader was a spoiler though, and if even half of the people who voted for him in 2000 had instead voted for Gore, Gore would be president right now and Bush would be an assistant manager at a Walgreen's.

[inthebrain]

10. Those votes still would have gone to Bush

All I have is to sit back and laugh at this stuff.

Like I said earlier, when you allow a lie to advance itself, you have only yourself to blame when it turns on you.

[EstimatedProphet]

16. No, they would have gone to Gore

[left is right]

13. i think you are exaggerating

Bush could never be more than a stock boy at Walgreen's

[EstimatedProphet]

15. LOL!

[Big Blue Marble]

11. The Nader excuse is a distorted myth.

Al Gore would have won the Presidency, if he had won his home state.

He would not have needed Florida. Nader would not have been a factor.
If you think that Clinton's behavior did not hurt in Tennessee, you are in major denial.

In 96, Bill won Tennessee. In 2000, Al Gore lost.
What do you think was the difference?

1996
Clinton, Bill received 909,146 votes and received 48.00 percent of the vote.
Dole, Bob received 863,530 votes and received 45.59 percent of the vote.

http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe1996/presge.ht...

2000

Bush, George received 1,061,949 votes and received 51 percent of the vote.
Gore, Al received 981,720 and received 47 percent of the vote.

Despite the myths to the contrary, Tennessee cost Gore the race not Florida.
And Clinton hurt him big time in his home state.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.htm...

[inthebrain]

18. True also

Gore didn't even bother in his home state.

[LWolf]

20. Best post I've seen in GDP for weeks.

Truly.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Here's a little help; I haven't read the rest of the thread, but I know what kind of knee-jerk reaction this is likely to spark, so: