Thread to predict just how ugly HRC people will get trying to trash Obama this week

[Ken Burch]

The threads started today show the gloves are off and no quarter is given. Let's try to guess, to paraphrase Chubby Checker "How Looooow Can They Gooooooo?"

(I'm assuming that Edwards' people will be a bit more high-minded, in keeping with the basic tone of their campaign).

(And again, I don't have a candidate right now, so I'm not doing this in the service of Obama. Just in the service of anti-ugliness and holding onto SOME small chance of winning this fall.)

[jackpan1260]

1. 100 on a scale of

1 to 10.

[IndianaJones]

2. think they'll hire an ex African American to appeal to the skinhead vote? nt.

[Ken Burch]

4. Self-delete

Didn't see the "ex" in "ex-African American" and thus the joke in my post didn't exist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Is Bob Johnson still working for them?

:shrug:

[Tulkas]

11. Michael Jackson?

[Blue-Jay]

29. Your trolling is tiresome.

[cali]

3. some Clinton supporters have completely lost their fucking minds

and so hae a few Edwards supporters. It's just bizarre.

[Adelante]

They're getting close to driving me very evil

And once I start, it will hurt.

[indimuse]

25. I know the feeling.

...

[Tarc]

34. We're trying to catch up to you

[rodeodance]

45. not possible--they keep anteing up the ugliness card.

[NYCGirl]

6. I think they'll go "scorched earth". NT

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. will go?

They've crossed that line more than a few times, pretended to deny what they said meant what it obviously meant, and did it again.

Watch for another Jesse Jackson reference before super 2sday. In a southern state. In New York. In California.
They will take no prisoners and along the way, leave plenty of corpses.

[coalition_unwilling]

68. Billary: Making racism acceptable in the Democratic party again.

Well, what did you expect with southern yellow-dog Democrat(s)?

[jefferson_dem]

7. Well they don't call them the "Say Anything. Do Anything" crowd for nothing.

My money is on lower than low.

[rodeodance]

54. Obama/Obama supporters will do anything to win.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. To be fair to Clinton supporters, some of these are really trolls.

At least the few very obnoxious loud-mouth ones giving real Clinton supporters a bad name. Think about it, all they do is...

1. Constantly slur the strongest democratic candidate with easily debunked, frequently misspelled, sometimes racist nonsense.

2. Never say anything nice about Clinton (not that it's easy.)

3. Were those sort of types you figured were the long term trolls long before the primaries ever started.

[goldcanyonaz]

9. Another, Obama for President service anouncement...

[Ken Burch]

21. NO, it's a "This person could well be our nominee, like it or not, so don't destroy the guy"

And remember, the uglier you folks get, the harder its gonna be to get the rest of us, the progressive majority, to back your candidate if she DOES get the Beltway to force her nomination through.

You can't just say "they have no place else to go" anymore. It will be up to you to make nice and be conciliatory if you win. And the more of this you do, the harder it will be to do that. Don't act like the Johnson/Humphrey Dems of '68.

You can't deny that you are already making it close to impossible for African American voters to feel they should back your candidate if she's nominated. And you'll blow it if you stay in arrogant, bullying '90s mode.

Got it?

(and, one more time, I DON'T support Obama and have often criticized him. I just don't want to see a prospective nominee made unelectable by the smears of his rival. You candidate is no longer dominant, and you and her have to change to reflect that. You don't have the upper hand anymore.)

[goldcanyonaz]

28. Oh, it's an ABC OP, my mistake.

:rofl:

ABO is just a few letters away from ABC for many here. Not all are as vocal as the ABC crowd, but there is a new joiner each and every day.

[Ken Burch]

33. NO, it's a FAIR PLAY OP.

You know that no good can come from your candidate getting the nomination by fighting dirty and ugly. You know she can't win if her supporters lower herself to these kinds of tactics. Why not admit it and give the bashing a rest?

You're not the dominant force in the party anymore and you're obligated to treat the rest of the party as equals. You need a united, passionate, galvanized party to win in the fall. Not a party that thinks your candidate has been shoved down their throats.

I'm just saying be decent and high-minded. That's the way to win. You do WANT to win in the fall, don't you?

[Tarc]

37. False premise

Going negative in the primary season does not equate to suffering for it in the general election. If Obama can't take the heat from another Democrat, then he'd buckle like a belt in the onslaught of the fundies, anti-abortionists, and fiscal conservatives of the GOP.

[rodeodance]

42. your OP seems to out to destroy him.

[Ken Burch]

53. my OP is about stopping ANYBODY from destroying anybody.

Let's be honest, there's one campaign today where 90% of the negativity is coming from today, and it isn't the Obama campaign. They are wrong on a lot of things, they aren't progressive enough to suit me as of now, but they aren't the ones doing the smearing.

[rodeodance]

60. Look at the responses you got---most bring out the UGLINESS.

[MyNameGoesHere]

50. And you really don't have a candidate?

"the uglier you folks get, the harder its gonna be to get the rest of us, the progressive majority, to back your candidate if she DOES get the Beltway to force her nomination through"

I wish at least people could be honest. If you are FOR someone that is cool, but you just seem to be against someone. how is that any different as a really pro HRC supporter ? Yours is just a little low handed and sleazier because you will not just come out and say it. "I hate HRC and all her supporters."

See that was easy.

[Ken Burch]

61. Honest, I really DON'T have a candidate.

My interest in this is driven by the fact that, in all liklihood, the race is now between Obama and Clinton(barring Gore appearing suddenly as Candidate-Ex-Machina and accepting a draft, but I think he means it about staying out of it).

No, I am NOT for Obama. What I'm saying is that Clinton people need to accept the fact that he now has an equal chance with their candidate of getting nominated, and that they have a responsibility(as Obama's people do the other way and which they more or less seem to recognize)of not leaving a prospective nominee mortally wounded going into the convention.

If Obama does get nominated after such a series of attacks, he could be just as badly damaged as McGovern was by Hubert Humphrey's vicious attack ads in the California primary(ads the Nixon campaign quoted verbatim in the fall). If Clinton does get nominated(and it now looks like she may only manage that by getting nominated by a block vote of the superdelegates overruling the will of the elected delegates)she will find it very difficult for Obama's supporters, and the rest of us, to rally to her side.

And the thing is, she doesn't even NEED to run that way. HRC could still get nominated by reconnecting to progressive principles, by reaching out to activists and clearly moving to an antiwar position on Iraq/Iran/Pakistan and by embracing fair trade rather than the failed globalist trade policies. She could win the nomination pretty and get elected. She won't get elected if she wins the nomination ugly.

The politics of the '90s don't work anymore, and they never will again.

[MyNameGoesHere]

69. Sorry but you did not

convey that in your OP. This is much more like a discussion rather than a "all you are bad" post. I for one am not for HRC, Obama, Or Edwards at this point. My reason? I was around when nixon left in disgrace and the nation wanted a "change" at the next election. Jimmy Carter got set up for the fall guy. Bad economy, coming out of an unpopular war, Oil prices going up, and a few other similar things. he could not succeed as in is heart he was a "nice" man. I am afraid the next candidate from the Democratic party should be as ruthless and vicious as the pukes have been the last 10 years. I WILL NEVER KISS AND MAKE UP to those who have ruined my country and i will not play "nice" with them.
So far i can only see HRC at least holding her ground and not even trying to be nice to them. Obama's inclusive talk just sends shivers up my spine. Edwards is ok but i just cannot get on board with him. Don't really know why. Just doesn't light a fire in me.

[Ken Burch]

73. The idea is to fght to the death against the OTHER party, not your main rival in THIS one.

I suppose it's the relentless Rezko spam that's cropped up today that prompted this thread. That's just dirty and ugly to hit that so relentlessly when there's so little connection between that and Obama. It's enough to fight the guy on the issues.

And I was willing to take the risk of sounding like an Obama supporter because, in a situation like this, my natural place in such a discussion is to go after the people who are taking it to the nastiest place, and there's one candidate's supporters who have been doing that this morning.

[Sparkly]

10. THIS is what's divisive and trashy

imho.

Obama gives a powerful message of unity and positive campaigning, and you're doing quite the opposite with posts like this.

[krabigirl]

30. exactly!!!

[rodeodance]

40. the emphasis is on TRASH--. Their leader is Preaching UNITY and look what they do.

[dmallind]

12. Well probably

some of them will....

...deliberately confuse and conflate his name to link him with others to allow more far reaching attacks

...dredge up arcane and convoluted connections to any disreputable person out there who may have once nodded to his brother in law's interior decorator's cousin.

....assume that anything ever said by anyone he ever involved in even a minor role in any of his campaigns is 100% correlated with his own opinion.

...stretch even the most meaningless of campaign style rah-rah phrases into a plan that means he will impose some kind of tyrannous rule.

...play armchair psychic and pretend to be able to guess that he won't REALLY bring troops home or push for universal healthc care no matter how much he says he will.


...use misleading poll data to explain why he is toast.

...call on him to withdraw for the good of the nation

...threaten to desert the party and stay home on GE day if he's the nominee

...speak as if with the authority of gawd almighty that he is unelectable because nobody THEY know will vote for him

....tell us how horrible it will be if he is nominated because the Republicans really wanted him all along.

....say that he's only doing well because of image, or demographics, or softball coverage

....in other words do EXACTLY what some Obama fans will do to Clinton just the same, and with not much difference in either validity or restraint.

I suspect you reallY DO have a candidate if you think this is only, or even mostly, one way. Neither group is entirely innocent, and neither is any worse than the other,

[Skip Intro]

13. Aww, an US vs THEM thread. Pre-emptive smearing? Lets hear it for unity...or hope...or change or

something...

:shrug:

[Tulkas]

19. No unity if HilBilly is the nominee, I won't vote for her/him

[Bake]

70. Please drop the "HilBilly" crap.

That is so utterly classless. Nobody gives a flying sh*t what you say when you couch it pejorative terms.

Same old same old.

Bake

[coalition_unwilling]

71. If HilBilly is the nominee, I'll be leaving the Dem party for good once and

for all.

[indimuse]

26. I needed your post!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Tulkas]

14. I thought the backlash was going to force them to tone it down, now I am not sure

[ChairmanAgnostic]

72. just like Spinal Tap's amps went to "11", Bill has no off switch.

[TheDeathadder]

15. Right...a negative thread about HRC...

...about how you predict HRC is going to go negative.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. even a broken watch is right on occasion.

and predictions that the Clintons will go negative again are far more accurate than the Atomic Clock.

[TheDeathadder]

27. You do know that the only candidate

with clean hands was Dennis Kucinich. HRC, Obama, and even Edwards all have some dirt on their hands. This idea that HRC is the wicked witch of the west is just plain false. If you want to see negative just wait until the general election, because those Repubs are going to just love to hear..."Hey stop it, you're going negative"

Pooling your predictions of when Clinton is going to go negative tells me we might not be ready to win the white house back. AND WE REALLY DO NEED TO WIN THE WHITE HOUSE BACK.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. richardson? gravel? Biden?

methinks you miscounted.

WE i repeat WE need to win it back. Unfortunately, Hillary is more of a DINO than Demo.

[TheDeathadder]

38. No just Kucinich

And saying Clinton is dino and not Demo shows we're going to lose. Because there's one thing about Repubs that keep Repubs in the white house. The people who support the candidate whose tagline is "Unity" is going to tear this party apart sadly, since you had to point out "WE i repeat WE need to win it back" and that "Hillary is more of a DINO than Demo" that would mean HRC supporters are not part of the WE, are we? Lord knows I am 100% for HRC to win the primary, but HRC and Obama are far most closer than Dems and Repubs, and I will vote for Obama or Edwards or any Democrat over a Repub...because WE DEMOCRATS NEED TO WIN BACK THE WHITE HOUSE.

[Ken Burch]

35. But we CAN'T win it back if she or anybody else get nominated by winning ugly.

Get it?

(And yes, as a recovering Kucinich volunteer, I do know that my candidate was the only pure one in the race. That's why the Beltway made sure he didn't have a chance, the bastards.)

[TheDeathadder]

39. I'm just warning us all

that it looks like there's plenty of ugly going around right now.

[rodeodance]

51. Yeah, I got it--The OP is a shinning example of UGLINESS.

[TheDeathadder]

74. I'm just saying for all sides

There's staying strong in debate for your candidate and then there's just getting ugly but claiming to be clean. I'm for HRC 100% but I admit we've all had our moments. I think from now on we should just bring our A GAME of facts and opinions. Clinton and Obama are rivals about to become allies not enemies about to enter a death match.

[GoldieAZ49]

16. Lets start to practice what Obama stands for

"move beyond the politics of fear and personal destruction and unite our country with the politics of common purpose...
refusing to demonize those who hold a different view"

In other words lets not get in the mud but pass on the bait of others, correct misconstrued facts without personal attacks.

Can we do it?

YES WE CAN!!!

[MonkeyFunk]

17. I'd say

half as bad as you guys have been towards Clinton for the last few months.

Toughen up.

[Gman]

22. Alert sent

pure flame bait.

[Thrill]

23. They already started

[book_worm]

24. but how does this thread help?

[krabigirl]

31. Lovely post.

:sarcasm:

[Ken Burch]

36. So you're ok with a candidate getting nominated by winning ugly?

Even though you know such a candidate has to be doomed to defeat in the fall?

[rodeodance]

41. seems your OP gets the "winning ugly" award:

So you're ok with a candidate getting nominated by winning ugly?

[Ken Burch]

49. My OP was a warning AGAINST "winning ugly"

And Obama(again, who I am not backing)isn't anywhere close to doing that. It's HRC's supporters that have started today off with abusive thread after abusive thread, rather than taking a hard look at why your candidate seems to be losing support and how to make your candidate look better.

[rodeodance]

56. ha ha. ha ha.

[Pathwalker]

43. Billary, Hitlery, Hillbilly, Shitlery...

[rodeodance]

48. I see you learn well from Bush/Rove!!

Notorious Bohemian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-28-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. Billary, Hitlery, Hillbilly, Shitlery...

[Pathwalker]

55. You pull a cheap stunt like that, and you have the nerve to accuse

me of using Rove tactics - every single one of those slurs has been repeatedly used by Obama supporters - and you know it! I am finished defending Obama when supporters of other candidates go over the top and post slurs.

Thank you for proving how low you're willing to go!

[rodeodance]

59. Oh, but I learned it from the best--the Obama supporters who have tossed

around since Obama said it Hillary at the last debate.


Just turning the table around.

[Pathwalker]

62. One problem - I'm not an Obama supporter.

I voted for someone else in my state's meaningless primary?

[rodeodance]

66. Whatever. My point was that I learned it from the Obama supporters

[Barack_America]

44. After the Kennedy endorsement, I'm done with divisive politics...

This board included.

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. It's sure "high minded" to call out a bunch of people in advance

OK, here is my thread about Obama. How low do you figure it went?

Barack Obama is the 2008 version of Bill Clinton's 1992 "New Democrat"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4245711&mesg_id=4245711

[LittleClarkie]

47. Call out

Come on, we don't need to be like this.

[Catherine Vincent]

52. Not far as ugly as the Obama supporters toward Hillary Clinton.

Where the hell have you been?

[LittleClarkie]

64. It's pretty equal

I remember that from when I wasn't committed.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. I don't think so.

But you're one of the good Obama supporters so I won't argue with you. :)

[BenDavid]

57. okay, I will give you a good one.....and if i were running the

campaign and all these "liberal" thinking folks came down so negative against HRC I would tell em this:"We're gonna get the votes we need and we're gonna win this thing. And you know what I'm gonna do after that, I mean that very night, I'm gonna go to Sam & Harry's, I'm gonna order a big steak, and I'm gonna make a list of everybody who tried to fuck us this week."

That about right?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. This Thread Is Repugnant...The Calling Out Of A Group Of People Is Freeperish...

This thread should be consigned to the dustbin of history...

[_Wayne_]

63. Ridiculous post, Ken. Sad and ridiculous. Nobody is trashing Obama

No cable media. No online forums. Nowhere. Hillary, though, is very much a victim of the "trash" and she has responded, to defend herself, over and over, and if you mistake that for "trash" then you're not looking close enough.

Hillary has handled her whole campaign with great class; the media misinterprets and exaggerates her campaign talk, but nothing out of her mouth or Bill's has indicated they are involved in politics of personal destruction that she is so often accused of, most tragically here at DU.

[emilyg]

67. Now why would you start this crap?