Should Kucinich drop out after losing his home state?

[JohnLocke]

Poll question: Should Kucinich drop out after losing his home state?

[MrSoundAndVision]

1. see

no. damn.

[Goldom]

2. see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x423454

[saltpoint]

3. I hope to hear Dennis Kucinich's voice --

-- in a prime-time slot in Boston this summer, so the entire country can hear him, and for many years to come. I was born in Ohio and came to respect him when he stood up for what was right in Cleveland.

He hasn't changed in his sturdiness of spirit. He's a genuinely progressive citizen and we need all of those we can find.

[blondeatlast]

21. Exactly. He got my vote in the Primary, now I'm 100% Kerry,

but he may have an influence on the platform, not to mention getting his supporters on board for the November victory!

[jsw_81]

39. Kucinich in prime-time?

Dream on.

[wuushew]

4. I see no "Hell NO" option?

n/t

[JohnLocke]

5. Kick

[DoNotRefill]

6. Yes. Anybody seeking the nomination who isn't Kerry is a subversive...

and must be silenced at all costs.

</sarcasm>

[ChiefJoseph]

7. Yes. I will be mortified if he is given speaking time at the convention.

I shudder to think of what damage he will do to Kerry's campaign if swing voters get it into their heads that Kucinich represents the mainstream of the party. He should be patted on the head and sent home.

[salin]

9. we know... you hold him in contempt... and he is a like a 'petchulli

wearing wierdo'.... :eyes:

Condensension is just such an attractive trait in certain posts...

[ChiefJoseph]

11. So, the only responses you were looking for are ones that...

...say, Go Dennis! Keep running with no chance of winning the nomination! Yay!

[salin]

17. I am not looking for any answers

and I am not even a *gasp* DK supporter. But I respect him and his supporters, just as I respected the late Senator Wellstone. What I don't have much patience for in the level of contempt that drips upon others with self-superiority ... the same sort of messages (haven't see you do this - but it is a frequent cute trip).. that says... get the lefties out of the party... but then... its ralph naders fault that we lost the election... and then... we shouldn't try to compromise with the left... let 'em leave... but its ralph naders fault with they do - or when they stay home.

FYI I am a life long democrat who has been voting and working for democrats for more than 20 years... who has watched this very type of dynamic lead to cycles of vitriol that harm ALL wings of the party.

Don't wear patchouli (heck I can't even figure out how to spell it)... but I can hangout with the birkenstock patchouli crowd, as well as the working union crowd, and the urban civil rights working crowd. I don't try to order any of them out... out of some sort of feigned superiority... and imagine this.. they don't try to push me out either.

[ChiefJoseph]

20. I certainly don't want to drive left-wingers from the party.

I want to turn them into pragmatists. And tilting after windmills and supporting Kucinich is totally counter-productive. The reality is, the far-left cost us the election in 2000. Nader supporters and Kucinich supporters are often one and the same. After 3 years of Bush, am I supposed to have warm, fuzzy feelings toward the far-left for delivering the White House on a silver platter? No, I am full of disdain. They're like ultra-ideological college activists who can't be reasoned with and who produce virtually nothing beneficial to the greater progressive cause.

[goodhue]

22. We are pragmatists.

And we know what we are doing.
Warm-fuzzies be damned.
Your disdain does the party no service.

[salin]

23. No you are supposed to help channel

it show there is a place at the table... notice they are here.. not going after Nader or the Green Party. Kucinich being in the race does nothing wrong for Kerry, and if anything gives a moderating contrast. That is good. And when folks get discouraged... encourag that energy by pushing participation in other action oriented groups like Moveon.org That is what keeps folks involved, under the tent, and likely to vote with us, or at least not against us. Your approach, sadly, is more like someone create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[ChiefJoseph]

25. Oh, I strongly disagree.

"Kucinich being in the race does nothing wrong for Kerry"

I couldn't disagree more. DK has had the effect of pulling the party well to the left, and I think that hurts us. I am not necessarily a Republican-lite DLCer in my own personal beliefs, but I do recognize the value of appealing to the center a la Bill Clinton. Having DK out there saying we should remove ALL profit from the health care system, establish a Dept. of Peace, etc. makes Dems in general look like starry-eyed idealists who are divorced from reality. DK is bad, bad, bad for the party.

[scarletwoman]

26. If DK is bad for the party, then it obviously isn't MY party.

You apparently want to shear off the left wing. You call it "pragmatism", I call it suicide.

In a country that is split almost exactly 50/50, you would willfully jettison 10-20% of the party's base? Good luck winning against the 50% on the right without our votes! :eyes:

sw

[rucky]

24. that's not Kucinich

Kucinich may represent that to you, but it's not him and it's not us. It's a cartoon character painted by Rush Limbaugh, and anytime you see a shred of truth in the caraciature, it solidifies your inaccurate (and extreme) view.

It sounds like an internal struggle to me. Maybe you are an idealist at-heart who fears to be on the recieving end of what you're dishing out? Pragmatism on it's own can be just as dogmatic if you look at it with the distinctly un-progressive black/white mindset. It might be helpful to look at pragmatism & idealism as two complimentary facets of progressivisim, instead of being at odds with one another. If we use pragmatic means to achieve ideal ends, then isn't that what we're all going for?

It is just as possible to become a pragmatic extremist, although that group isn't discussed as much as the other end of the spectrum.

but you'll probably see this analysis as a bunch of new age crap anyways. If you were really interested in turning us all into pragmatists, you'd have a more effective plan than the one you're using now.

[ChiefJoseph]

27. I do not need Rush to shape my views of DK.

I admit that I can be abrasive. It's my nature. Sorry, really. I am just really, really fed up with the idea that the nominee needs to be some latter day JFK-meets-Gandhi character.

We all know that he never once stood a chance of being the nominee, so why bother running? And good grief, why stay in at this point other than to inflate his ego?

[rucky]

28. Okay, lemme explain strategically.

I hope you agree that the country has moved to the right. Let's examine how that happened:

Newt Gingrich gets in bed with the Religious Right - both on the frothing-at-the-mouth extreme side - and aggressively push their agenda. Through repetition and genuine grassroots efforts (and a little help from the media) the message got out there - contract for America, etc. Now the mainstream of the party at the time didn't feel threatened by this, or if they did, they just shut the hell up. Reagan's 11th commandment, ya know. So not only did they have an extremist agenda, but it was legitimized by the silence of the rest of the party - and that seaps into our mainstream & all the sudden we have to shift to catch up with the mainstream "swing vote". Meanwhile the GOP takes control of the issues and wins elections.

It took 'em years to do this - many election cycles with no major wingnut victories persay. They just kept putting themeslves out there until people got used to the message. They still haven't gotten everything they wanted, but they're a hellova lot closer because of their efforts. And that's pretty much where the GOP wants to be: instead of pulling to the mainstream, they let the extreme pull everything towards them.

Does DK's role make any more sense to you now? You don't have to be a part of it, but you don't have to fight it. No shame will come to the party... this is how you shift public opinion.

[spychoactive]

40. here's one reason:

so my mother who is dying of cancer can be prescribed medical marijuana to help combat the debilitating effects of chemotherapy and radiation treatment...

knowing full well it will help, she is old fashioned and refuses to break the law, this horrible aspect of the war on drugs has widespread collateral damage...a vote for Dennis Kucinich is one more step towards the endingof this insane prohibition...

and i do not wear patchouli oil...

one love
spike
DK-04

[vision]

34. gore won

the "left-wingers" regardless of how they voted did not cost Gore the election, if the votes were legally counted than Gore won.

Even if you discount that you should be angry at the 48-49% of those eligible that did not vote.

At least those that vote cared enough to make an effort. If you want those that voted third party last time to vote with you, you have to give them hope. Tell them that they are "tilting at windmills" will not win them over.

Use postitive messages and encourge them instead of basically impying that they are the problem. Treat those that voted for Bush last time that way and see how fast they run to your side.

[tedzbear]

43. I disagree. The democratic far right cost us the election...

...after they alienated so many liberals they didn't bother to vote. Now you're doing it again. Why else do you think the turn out was so low in California? You muzzle the left and you lose half your base, baby.

:kick:

[rucky]

13. But wouldn't DK's presence bring Kerry more to the center?

So when the GOP tries to throw the liberal label at JK, all Kerry has to do is point to DK: "wanna see a liberal? here's a liberal for ya". No need to go through active measures to alienate the DK wing of the party. Wouldn't that help Kerry in the least damaging way?

Although the head-pat may help get the bug outta your butt, don't pretend your reasons are sound strategy. Kerry ain't sweatin' it so neither should you.

[redqueen]

15. lol

'get the bug outta your but'

Thanks for the laugh. :)

[youngred]

29. so much rudeness

so much divisiveness
so little sense

[rucky]

8. I'd like to hear from the "yes" voters

why? I can't think of a reason.

[Cuban_Liberal]

10. Beats me.

I voted 'no', and I'm not even a supporter, and never was. :shrug:

[HuskerDem]

33. Because it's time to close ranks and present a united front against evil

and bring an end to the BFEE. He can still present his ideas and push for the things he believes are important WHILE he supports our Democratic nominee.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. It's up to him, not us

and although I'm a DK supporter, I'd say that about any candidate.

[redqueen]

14. NO!

He's my favorite and I want to vote for him at least once!

[Eurobabe]

16. why should he?

Let him stay in, it's another voice railing against the Chimp. DK has some great ideas that need to be heard, over and over and over.

[Tank in Texas]

18. He's Our Last Respite from DNC Control

I plan to vote Kucinich in the Texas Primary. The DNC will not silence my voice, as inconsequential as it may end up being.

[revcarol]

19. I keep getting: you already voted, and I didn't.

I vote no.

Oh, $5.00 more for Dennis.

[Kathleen04]

30. No.

He still has the opportunity to get some delegates to go to the convention in support of him.

He has a good message and his voice should be heard--the 21 states left should at least have some choice.

[Robbien]

31. Never

Dennis has our heart and should stay in until we all get our chance to cast our vote for him.

[Desertrose]

32. NO

simple answer...no...he has the message and the funds...hell the media ignores him already...why should it matter... if he is a "non-candidate " then whats the difference?

Peace
DR

[eridani]

35. Hell, no!

[mvd]

36. No!

He hasn't been doing much harm to Kerry as he's not spending much money, and he got a solid 9% in state that's really moderate at best. If he was a Senator, the perecentage would mean more. Plus, he's still my favorite. I'm rallying around Kerry because he's the one with a chance to beat Bush, and I do like him - also, Bush must go if we want to recognize our country.

[Vernunft II]

37. Every Kuchinich vote forces Kerry to

stay his new course and not revert to his washington insider ways of the past. So while (sadly) there´s not much chance for DK to make it it still makes sense to vote for him. The same goes for Dean votes.

[jsw_81]

38. Kucinich didn't just lose, he got TROUNCED in Ohio

[DemBones DemBones]

41. Absolutely not! DK will support the nominee but he has every

right and every reason to continue in the race and attend the convention. where he can have some influence on the messages put forth by the party and by the nominee.

As long as he is in the campaign, people will hear DK speak and many will like one or more of his ideas. Many will be educated by DK and begin to question some things they never thought of questioning before. This is helpful in advancing democracy and these days, we need every democratic advance we can get.

Now that Kerry's got the nomination fairly well sewed up, Democrats can certainly feel free to vote their hearts, whether that's Kucinich or Dean (still on the ballots and hasn't withdrawn from the race as far as I know) or Clark, Edwards, Gephardt, Moseley-Braun (all withdrawn but probably still on the ballot in most states.) When I voted yesterday in Georgia, I could have voted for any of those candidates or for John Kerry or Dennis Kucinich. At this point, after his Super Tuesday wins, Kerry doesn't need universal primary support. He'll win large majorities in the future primaries and no one need feel that they're jeopardizing his nomination if they follow their heart to vote for someone else.

I'm proud to say that I voted for Dennis Kucinich yesterday. He's the only Democrat I've wholeheartedly supported since Eugene McCarthy in 1968 and George McGovern in 1972. Thirty-two years without a primary candidate I really wanted to vote for is a long time. There's been only one general election candidate (McGovern) who was the guy I wanted in my entire voting life to date. I'm sure I'm not alone in having voted for the lesser evil time after time.

I've been urging DUers to stop bashing Kerry over recent weeks, as his eventual nomination became more and more inevitable, but I refused to give up my right to vote for Kucinich, the candidate I prefer. Those of you with primarie in future weeks should vote your hearts, too, but be supporting Kerry against Bush at the same time. It's not at all difficult to do this. The point of the remaining primaries is to show how much support other candidates get, with only Kerry, Kucinich, and Sharpton still in the race. Meanwhile, Kerry starts taking the fight to Bush* and Democrats begin to unify behind Kerry for the march to victory in November.

[Indiana Democrat]

42. He didn't just LOSE his home state...He got CREAMED!!

Now he needs to get off his Dennis Promotion tour and go home.