Slamming Hillary for her reliance on Bill to do her bidding is not any more sexist

[Perky]

than calling W "Poppy's Boy". Or giving someone a pass because there last name is Kennedy


It has nothing to do with her genedr It has everything to do with her ability to stand on her own tow feet. We would be saying the same thing if Bill was her dad.

She does not get a free pass on the issue of of overeliance on a past leader purely because whe is a woman,

Politics is a blood sport....quit hiding behind stupid arguments. She has done very little positive during her tenure in the Senate and little as First ummmm err Spouse.

[Renew Deal]

1. I don't see the controversy

When you consider that Hillary's campaign is openly putting him out there. They're the one's pushing the 2 for 1 idea.

[robbedvoter]

2. "Poppy's boy" is sexist? And was THAT W's problem? I thought his father was GOD

at least that's what he responded to a question when asked if he followed Poppy's advice.
I thought most people - including us WANTED W to rely on Poppy just a bit more, no less.
So, your analogy....:nuke:
But one thing is clear - you have no idea what "sexist" is

[mondo joe]

3. "Politics is blood sport". As long as it's directed against a candidate other than

yours, I see.

Okay - remember that. :-)

[Perky]

4. Come at me with facts.. and you will have my respect.

[mondo joe]

7. I don't aspire to your respect. But I do ask you to remembe your own words.

"Politics is a blood sport". It will come back.

[zanne]

9. But Hillary's not acting like it's a "blood sport"....

I'm trying not to get heated up here, but Hillary is acting like a fragile woman, not a fighter. At the beginning of her campaign, and in the middle of her campaign, she acted like a fighter. But now, with her "emotional" moment in NH and now with hubby fighting for her, she's trying to have it both ways. She isn't being a fighter now, so how can she be participating in a "blood sport"? I'm very disappointed in Hillary and if she does get the nomination, I will only vote for her while holding my nose.

[mondo joe]

10. In a fight you use whatever you've got, and what the occassion calls for. NT

[zanne]

13. Then you agree that she's fighting dirty. nt

[mondo joe]

15. Not at all. I don't think there's anything dirty about hving your spouse campaign

for you, or talking about how you feel.

[zanne]

17. Then we'll have to agree to disagree. nt

[Pryderi]

20. Having your spouse lie about your opponent is dirty.

[mondo joe]

21. I agree, but I forgive Michele Obama for doing that. NT

[zanne]

24. Mondo--You're too far gone.

You're beyond reason now. I recognize the kind of retorts you're giving. I know that you're thinking of "stinging" replies in your head before you even finish reading the post of someone who disagrees with you. Take a break,huh?

[zanne]

5. I agree on this one.

I try to stay out of threads criticizing Hillary or Edwards, but this has been on my mind and I think it has merit. Being a strong woman and standing on her own two feet has been the Hillary meme, but then using fragility by showing her emotional side in NH has me doubting exactly how straightforward she's being about her "strength as a woman". Also, letting her husband "campaign" for her when the going gets tough is really passive-aggressive. I'm sorry, Hillary supporters, but she's disappointing me and I no longer feel like I'm being disloyal to my gender by not supporting her.

[RichGirl]

8. You've got to be kidding.

Many male politicians have shown emotion, cried real tears and it's never been an issue until Hillary does it. And...she controlled her emotions by not shedding tears and quickly getting back on track. Mitt Romney cried tears three times in one week and it wasn't even mentioned on any news program. As for "letting" Bill campaign for her...what the hell is that? Spouses almost always campaign. No one has ever questioned it. Her husband happens to be a former president. That is both an advantage and a disadvantage. They all have different stories and different situations that give them an edge or not. Singling out Hillary is a very weak reason to not support her.

[zanne]

12. He doesn't just "happen" to be a former president...

We all know of the weight he carries in Democratic opinion. It would have been the same if Bush's daddy had shown the same kind of denfensive anger during his Primaries. (And he didn't, remember?). Daddy Bush stayed out of the Primaries and only stepped in recently to get emotional about it. That a very different thing. And, by the way, the others didn't cry because people were being mean to them. Appealing to the "pity" vote shows a weak character. I just hate that she's proving all the Repubs right about using her gender to evoke sympathy from women.

[RichGirl]

22. Yes...by all means let's use Poppy...

as a standard to go by. Parents and children are at different levels. There is no word for adult children because you are always your parents child, even if your John McCain. Bush, who was already considered less than bright, appeared to look like a child standing next to his dad. Married couples are equals. Hillary doesn not look like less, standing next to Bill. Unless you think the husband is superior to the wife, then there is a big difference between parent and spouse.

Hillary DID NOT cry because people were being mean to her. Those are your words to make her look weak. You apparently didn't watch. She was exhausted and stated that campaigning was hard...which it obviously is.

[robbedvoter]

19. again with the fucking fragility!

[zanne]

23. Cute cartoon, but she's proving them right.

She's playing right into Repub hands by trying to win the Primaries as a suddenly "emotional" and weak woman, with her husband fighting her battles for her. I hope you don't think the Republicans aren't salivating at the idea of repeatedly ridiculing her about this during the general election campaign. You have to look at things from many sides, not just your own, to understand what is going to happen. Whatever cartoons you can come up with now will be nothing compared to the cartoons the Repubs will be able to come up with.

[robbedvoter]

26. No. She isn't playing anything. You insist in staying offensively clueless sexist

and then you'll be surprised again seeing 59%+ women turn out and vote for her.
You have no idea how offensive your comments are - and how much this attitude will play a role in a woman's decision - even one like me who places IWR as the most important criteria.
keep it up. Please.

Once again: when women come to vote for her - they are not doing it out of "pity" for the "damsel in distress" - that's a guy's fantasy.
Women vote for Hillary because she is strong, because her strength is used against her, because of attitudes like yours.
We don't pity her. We identify with her when faced with "fragility comments>

[RichGirl]

6. Hillary is perfectly capable of standing on her own two feet.

During debates, she is the only candidate (republican or democrat) who doesn't have an adoring spouse sitting in the audience smiling up at her, giving her strength and support. After the debate, she doesn't have her spouse rushing up on stage to give her a big hug and kiss. Not only can she stand on her own two feet, but she can stand alone.

[Perky]

11. It is categorically different when your spouse is a former office holde of the office you seek.

Bill sucke the oxygen out od any room he is in.... The point it that if Michelle and Elizibeth were adwocationg at the same volume Bill has been.. It would be off putting.



Bill is advocating at a different level.... And while it is his right and he can be as loud as he wants to be,... It dimisheses Hillary... The criticism is fair. and it should not be spun as sexist. You don't get to trot Bill out to slam other candidates and then claim it is sexist to criticize the process.

[mondo joe]

14. But politics is a "blood sport", remember?

Now we're going to whine about Hillary using whatever assets she has.

[RichGirl]

16. You are making my point.

How much criticism is Bill getting? Lots.

How much criticism does Michelle or Elizabeth get? None that I know of.

People feel free to bash Bill at every turn. Yet the wives get nothing but praise and respect.

The fact that Bill is a former president and such a presense is both an advantage and disadvantage.

At any rate...spouses are not a good reason to support or not support a candidate.

[zanne]

18. I agree with you, Perky.

People are being disingenuous when they say that when it comes to Bill and Hillary, all is fair...

[RichGirl]

25. Who is saying that?

Personally...I'm glad Hillary is getting pummelled. It's good practice for the general. How they are dealing with giving and recieving attacks is invalueable information in deciding who to select for nom.

There is nothing fair about running for office. If you want fair, then T-Ball is your game.

[quickesst]

27. Face it....

you people are just pissed off because Hillary's spouse is in a better position, experience, and popularity-wise, than other candidates spouses. This call for "dumbing down" Bill Clinton is ignorance at it's height. This is a political race, not a horse race, and you don't handicap candidates with extra weight as they do race horses. So why not quit bitchin', pissin', and moaning about it, and advise your candidates spouses they have two choices. Keep doing what they're doing, or do better. All the wah-wah over Bill has become tedious. Thanks.
quickesst

[Perky]

28. I do not disagree. I thoroughly expect Bill to give Hillary is full throated support

The problem is that when you enter into a good cop bad cop pattern... you can't claim it is sexism to criticize Hillary for playing the good cop or when we say they are running as a team.

[quickesst]

31. When I .....

comment on my choice of candidate, or anyone else's, the sexism, and race thing doesn't enter my mind. I don't use it as criteria for anything. Hillary's a big girl, and if she can't handle the shit, that's tough, although I think she has and will contintue to do so. Same with Obama, or Edwards. As far as the two issues in question, racism, and sexism, I avoid those like the plague around here. As far as I'm concerned, there have been very few statements here that has openly, and honestly tackled either issue. My reasoning behind this would only open either to discussion which, like I said, I avoid like the plague around here. I think it's good for all the Democratic candidates and their spouses, to run as a team. ;-) Thanks.
quickesst

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. Do you remember the clip of Ronnie standing mute...

... listening to reporters yell questions at him? "tell us something about your arms control policies"?

His hearing and his confusion rendered him unable to respond. Nancy whispered in his hear "we're doing all we can".

He dutifully repeated it.

I don't see any reason to be hard on Ronnie for being unable to stand on his own two feet while ignoring Hillary.

[bvar22]

30. I love Big Dog,

and I'm glad he is running for a 3rd Term.
His wife is trying to help him, but mostly she just gets in his way.
I wish she would just get out of the picture and let Bill do his thing!

[Perky]

32. Bwaaaahhhhhaa