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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:38 PM
Original message
"Obama's team made a very shrewd move, and ended up far outmaneuvering the Clinton campaign"

Edwards wins debate, but Obama wins the battle

by Eric Schmeltzer
Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:06:45 AM PST

Sometimes for those of us who sip on Mr. Pibb all day and constantly refresh political websites, it's hard to separate ourselves from the debate, and look at things from the bird's eye view that many undecided, casual voters see things, or think how the debate might play out in the long-run.

It's tough, but when I watched last night's debate just as a PR person, I tried to keep that in mind. And I might as well make a formal disclaimer here: None of what I'm about to write means I think one candidate is right or wrong on the issues, or whether one candidate or the other would make a better nominee or president. It's strictly an objective view as a strategist.

OK. So, when all was said and done, I came away with two conclusions: John Edwards came off looking the best and "won" the debate, but Barack Obama won a key battle which could pay off with immediate and intermediate dividends, in a big way.

Eric Schmeltzer's diary :: ::

First, Edwards. I firmly subscribe to the belief that when two candidates snipe constantly, the third candidate who brings the debate back to reality pretty much always comes off the best. John Edwards struck gold, in that regard, jumping between Clinton and Obama and asking, hey, how does this get children health care, or create jobs, or help the economy? I can't imagine an undecided voter, or a voter who has 'soft' support for another candidate, didn't nod their head in agreement with that, and took that away from the debate. I don't think this is too radical a notion, so I won't go on trying to prove it.

Yet, winning a debate rarely, if ever, wins someone an election, and it's questionable as to whether a single debate moves votes in the end. Indeed, in CNN's focus group (which is about all I have to go on in the short-term), voters said they liked Edwards in the debate, but would probably vote for Obama.

Knowing this, Obama's team made a very shrewd move, and ended up far outmaneuvering the Clinton campaign (not something that could be said often in recent weeks).

:: First, they correctly recognized that they could afford to "lose" the debate and let Edwards come out smelling like roses, as long as Hillary "lost" it too - thus, dragging her into a fight was an acceptable short-term tactic to achieve....

:: The second point. They correctly felt that they had to move the debate off of her turf, which is the experience argument. But, even more importantly, they recognized that the "hope" argument is really just the flip-side of the "experience" debate. As long as he talks just about hope, the subconscious thinks, "Yeah, but does he have the experience?" which is a winner for Hillary.

And so, the Obama campaign moved the debate to what they see as a clear winner for them, and a clear loser for Senator Clinton - trust. (more on that in a second)

:: Third, to buoy that argument, they set up a couple of traps that made Hillary fall into Clinton-speak, which never looks really honest. Specifically, when Obama challenged Hillary over whether he said Republicans had "good ideas," and she more or less had to admit that's not what he said, and went into a rather wiggily argument about the "context" and what one might take away from what he said, etc. To me, she sounded like someone caught in a lie.

Surprisingly (at least to me), it seemed like Clinton, as well, made the decision to fight Obama on the trust issue, intimating that Obama was slick ("...it’s just very difficult to get a straight answer"), and that he worked for a slum lord.

I can't think of a worse issue for Clinton to try to match Obama over than trust. So far, trust hasn't entered the debate. It's surprising Obama didn't raise it before, because it tops the list of things people concern themselves with when voting (not surprising since we're coming out of W's administration). It's also an issue where Clinton is a clear loser (see questions 43, 44, 69). While voters fundamentally love what the Clintons did for the country in the 1990s, I think without reservation, most voters didn't see them as the most honest couple in the world.

In the battle to change the dialogue from experience to trust, Obama clearly won. It was definitely viewed as a victory by the Obama team, which released a post-debate dripping with references to 'trust.'


He's still waging that battle today, and Clinton is still taking the bait on it.

Today, Senator Clinton's team is still hitting on trust/truth, with Clinton saying this morning, "He has a hard time responding to questions about his record..." and " were so rehearsed that he kept on insisting that I had mentioned President Reagan in what I had said when I didn't mention President Reagan..."

Obama was quick to keep the trust/truth narrative right at the top, responding, "I don't think it's the 'fun part' to fudge the truth... If you get the kind of looseness with the facts that displayed, that erodes people's trust in government...It makes them cynical."

So, Obama won the battle he set out to win, last night. Time will tell if this overtakes the "experience" narrative of the past few weeks, or even benefits him at the polls. Certainly, his team has been doing a great job of ensuring that it is the new theme, and Clinton seems to be OK with engaging over it
(essentially thinking they can win on the 'trust' issue).

But, if Obama starts to creep ahead in the next week or so and builds up momentum through Feb 5, pundits might look back at this debate as point when he pivoted the campaign back in his favor.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/22/111012/671/308/441072
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. K/R
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is spot on.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kick for the front page :)
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Amazing how supporters buy into whatever spin and rationalization
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 07:51 PM by depakid
are thrown their way....

(this applies across the board).

Seems to me it's never a good deal when both sides to an exchange come out looking poorly.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yeah, well, I guess you'd have to know
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 07:54 PM by zidzi
the intricacies, wouldn't ya?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks, PirateSmile :)
That's interesting.. these guys are amazing that analysis this political stuff like this.
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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree, however he could have hit her up with the trust issue much more then he did.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. I guess I see the trust and experience issues as being the same.
My own feeling is that trust must be earned that O. really has not had enough time in Washington to do that. I don't care what the candidates say. Point of fact, I have not watched a single debate. Why would I? No one is going to be self-critical. No real evidence for anything will be presented. Words, however eloquent, prove nothing.

I start with the resume. Whoever is qualified to manage the unmanageable Federal power structure gets and interview. Whoever is not, doesn't. When Richardson, Biden and Dodd dropped out and it became clear that Edwards did not have the money or inferstructure to compete on Feb. 5, I was really left with one option. It is not enough to win in November. Whoever we pick has to be able to do the job. And I don't see that O. is ready for it.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. kick
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. The Clintons have a disconnect with the truth
Everyone in the country knows this. Both of them are known to lie to get over. Obama's been way to late to bring out trust and honesty. He should've been talking about this a long time ago. No way the Clintons beat Obama on trust and honesty. That's a battle he can beat them on w/out a problem. He might also start talking about 'values.'
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. That was shown again this morning when after her
disasterous debate she is talking about Obama being "frustrated". The disconnect is that these guys are acting like they are new on the scene and people aren't aware of their tactics.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. Um, yeah, sure.
"It's tough, but when I watched last night's debate just as a PR person, I tried to keep that in mind."

And then this writer fails to even say one positive thing about Hillary's performance.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. Sounds like a good idea to me
He's already beat her on hope and change actually. If he can start tearing down her trustworthiness, there isn't a lot left to vote for.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I still think there's room to dissect that experience...
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 12:48 AM by Kristi1696
Make her detail what those 35 years were really about. (i.e. Wal-Mart, her failed healthcare plan (her major contribution to her husband's policy was a failure-that needs to be highlighted))

But I'll take trust for now.

ETA: I think that dissecting the experience myth would be a great focus for the next debate. Barack really needs to work in his experience as well, and have a better explanation for those "present" votes. Not that he's misleading us now, but just that he needs to present it in a more understandable way.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's an interesting theory...
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 12:44 AM by Kristi1696
I think it's obvious that Edwards came out looking the best and won the battle of "impressions"

It's also obvious that Clinton just looked bad. She was agitated, the camera caught her eyes flashing several times. She did get caught in that lie (and I too noticed the fidgeting). Perhaps more importantly, she did get booed loudly, which for the uber-casual observer not really following the debate, certainly got their attention.

But I'm not sure that Obama walked away looking that great, particularly now that the squabbling has been replayed over and over again. But at least he did look tough. During the debate, Obama framed some of his answers very well, as if he were trying to give inside information directly to the audience. He would say, "Now, you see what is happening here..." and the like. I think that played VERY well and I hope he continues with that theme. That definitely builds the trust aspect. Having noticed that tactic does make me wonder if they really are moving the debate to a "trust" issue. If so, it is a very smart strategy.

*sigh* I just wish that Kennedy would endorse Obama so he could attack Bill, rather than Barack.
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ZinZen Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
16. I was thinking strategy wise the same thing
as the poster while watching the debates. Obama kept bringing up the Clintons huge weakness of trust and honesty. I think Obama is smart about addressing the Clinton's lies and that the Clinton's lies from the 90's will resonate with voters who remember Bill's wagging finger played over and over again
in the media.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I noticed he brought up trust this morning on Today on NBC.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. Obama showed he can hold his own against ClintonCo.
He definitely has skills. ;)
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. It's about the trust stupid. This will sink the Clintons in the general election.
About that Hispanic vote the Clintons are courting:

1. Why should the Hispanics trust the Clintons to follow through on any promises (and how will Gridlock Hillary even be able to accomplish anything)?
2. After they see how they are willing to treat the African American vote (dividing rather than healing this country), how can they be sure Clinton won't do the same to them. Can we say driver licenses?

Besides TRUST, it's about the GRIDLOCK. Who wins when there is GRIDLOCK - the powerful special interests. By DIVIDING AND CONQUERING this country - nothing gets done for the American public.

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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well, let's hope they don't make it there....n/t
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. that debate whiped away any of the likability her crying spell in NH gained for her
Last night she came out as shrill and mean and the audience knew it which is why they booed her on at least two ocassions.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. kick
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Too soon to tell, but I hope he is right n/t
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Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.
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