Poll: Who would win more Independent voters between John McCain and Hillary Clinton?

[TeamJordan23]

Poll question: Poll: Who would win more Independent voters between John McCain and Hillary Clinton?

Since Independent voters are key to winning a general election, who would win more Independent voters between John McCain and Hillary Clinton?

[water]

1. McCain has enough incredibly creepy quotes that this could swing either way.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

2. Old man McCain will win WWll veterans and 5% more men than Clinton and he'll lose eom

[Flabbergasted]

12. I agree. Democrats should win this year despite who's running against us.

[AndyTiedye]

22. We SHOULD Have Won in 2000 and 2004!

We did, but we got robbed.

It's close enough for them to steal it again.

[spooky3]

3. Edwards would win more than either of them.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. I hear that!

:yourock:

[Yael]

8. There ya go, injecting sense into this.

Didn't you get the memo? It is a 2 person race to the line now. 3 states have spoken!

[spooky3]

28. haha! I have my fingers in my ears!

:hi:

[Mojambo]

5. McCain, but he'll lose more of his base I think. n/t

[HughMoran]

6. Anybody who thinks McCain will win more independents in 2008

is smoking some SERIOUS dope! :smoke:

[Yael]

15. LOL!

[Tulkas]

27. what do you base that on ?

Hillary's negatives are huge!!!!

[HughMoran]

31. Independents are voting very heavily Democratic this year

They want change in the form of NO MORE REPUBLICANS so bad they can taste it. + I'm an independent and I'm voting for the Dem no matter what ;)

[terrya]

35. No shit.

:eyes:

[Yael]

7. McCain will. Especially if Jomentum is his running mate

[TeamJordan23]

9. I don't see him picking Leiberman. Will probably pick someone with Evengelical ties

Because he will need someone to get evengelical support. I suspect it might be McCain-Huckabee ticket.

[Yael]

14. Evangelicals are VERY in favor of Joe

They think he "came to his senses" when he ran as an indy against Lamont.

Don't underestimate that.

[TeamJordan23]

16. What do you mean "came to his senses"?

He is still Jewish last time I checked.

[Yael]

33. Left the Democratic party

[AndyTiedye]

19. A McCain/Fuckabee Ticket is The Most Likely Way for Theocracy to Come to the USA

The Repiggies might beat us with McCain, but he's so old and frail, he'd croak within a few months under all the stress of actually being President. Then we would be Fuckabeed.



We're gonna need to dust off those "A Heartbeat Away from the Presidency" ads!

[featherman]

10. It concerns me that the MSM remains so gaga over the ol'

"straight shooter". With Leiberman as Veep the NYTimes/Broder/Russert crowd will be falling all over themselves for the "unity ticket". Gonna make for a looong fall campaign.

[TheWebHead]

11. is this a joke?

mccain will cream hillary in independents, though bloomberg could be a wildcard to spoil this equation.

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

13. If it's a McCain/Clinton matchup with or without Bloomberg...McCain wins.

[Hawaii Hiker]

18. I don't know about that...McCain is a dopey old man who

not only is in favor of keeping troops in Iraq FOREVER basically, he's very far right on social issues & would (if given the chance by a stupid electorate) appoint far right judges/justices on the courts...

If that bastard is the nominee, Democrats strategists need to hammer home those 2 points - that should sway those that are TRULY independent....

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

21. Again, Dems should win, but they have a history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

All the points you made above could have been said of Bush in 2004, but that didn't work out.

[AndyTiedye]

26. But the Media Calls Him a "Maverick" and a "Moderate"

so the "swing voters" will vote for him anyway.

[DJ13]

17. The Hillary supporters need to come to grips with the fact

...that she's not popular, especially outside the base of the Democrats.

Unless McCain makes a major gaffe he will own about 65% of the independant votes, and thats enough to secure him the win in November.

[sandnsea]

20. McCain will beat Hillary, look at rural NV

if anybody needs evidence. Obama beat her in Elko, 65 - 30. He beat her in Carson City, Reno, Sparks, everywhere. He even beat her in Fallon. She will have a tough time holding the states Kerry won.

[Hawaii Hiker]

32. She should win most if not all the Kerry states

Pennsylvania concerns me somewhat but Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) & especially Philadelphia county are VERY Democratic, take a look from 2004 below, Philadelphia county votes 80% for the Democrat (this is typical), & that's where all the people live....

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=11&OfficeID=1

And there is NO way the solid blue states like California, New York, Illnois, Massachutes, New Jersey, etc. will turn red for McCain...ZERO chance.....

That said, Ohio, Colorado, Virginia, etc. may be difficult but McCain won't win easily over her....

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

34. I could see McCain pick off ME, NH, PA, MI, MN, WI, and maybe OR.

[sandnsea]

41. MI, OH, NH, PA- not MN, ME and no way OR

With a Clinton-McCain election, we will be fighting in the north. With an Obama-McCain election, we fight in the south. I really believe that. We are making such a tragic mistake with Hillary.

[Hawaii Hiker]

42. PA hasn't gone red since 1988, & I highly doubt it would turn for that dope McCain

Also, most of north & New England area is likely to stay blue...

www.electoral-vote.com

[Barack_America]

46. If it's McCain vs. Hillary PA most certainly will go Red...

PA is on the brink as it is. The only thing that keeps it blue is Philly. And Philly is largely African-American. Hillary has completely alienated African-American voters. If she's on the ticket, many will simply not show up. Independents, who are currently favoring Obama, will go to McCain instead. End result, not enough votes in Philly to override the extremely red middle of the state.

Pennsylvania goes Red, without a doubt.

(I live in PA, FWIW)

[Hawaii Hiker]

50. I respectfully & strongly disagree

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=11&OfficeID=1

Allegheny & Philadelphia counties will be enough to hold PA blue....Ohio may stay red, but PA will stay blue.....Even Mondale kept PA close (he won in Philadelphia)....Philly ALWAYS goes 80%+ for the Democrat...Allegheny county is about 55-60% for the Democrat...

Old dope McCain will not win PA....

[sandnsea]

48. She'll bring out the forces to vote against her

It's been awfully close these many years.

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

43. Oregon has a independent streak, as does Maine.

[sandnsea]

47. I live in Oregon, lol, NO

we are not going to vote for John McCain. The only reason 2000 was tight was because of the high number that went to Nader. We're independent, but not in a NH way. I think Maine is much more like us and won't go for McCain either.

[BootinUp]

57. What does that have to do with running against McCain?

Are you saying Americans think McCain and Obama are essentially identical?

[NoPasaran]

23. McCain will alienate Independents by repeatedly insisting they get the hell off his lawn

[Kucinich4America]

24. McCain will slaughter Hillary.

And the treasonous liars at the DLC will claim she was "too liberal" :eyes:

[Tulkas]

25. Not Even Close, If you voted Hillary you are kidding yourself

Even Moderate Democrats Won't Show Up For Hillary !!!!!!


Forget moderate independents, if she gets any at all it will be because of a Butterfly Ballot that some old people read wrong.

[SmellsLikeDeanSpirit]

29. I agree. It would get ugly. I'd see popular vote something like 1988.

McCain - 53%
Clinton - 46%

McCain well over 300 electoral votes.

[Kucinich4America]

30. Moderate Democrats don't like her either?

I know Liberals can't stand her. So who the Hell is voting for her (Besides the DIEBOLD machines in NH)

[HughMoran]

36. Bookmarking

This one might end up being a keeper.

[robbedvoter]

37. New Hampsire sure proved your revenge poll right. The acrimony here!

[joshcryer]

38. If female independents break the same way they have been, then it is obvious.

And people voting McCain here just got the blinders on.

[sandnsea]

49. Women would have to deliver the election

And young women don't seem to particularly care about doing that, so if you put that on a national ge level, I don't think you can count on women at all.

[skipos]

39. The exit polls and most other polls show McCain doing well with indies, Hillary not so much. nt

[AGirl]

52. um, alot of young people dont care at all.

[krabigirl]

40. I actually think Hillary, just because people want a Democrat in the White House.

[mtnsnake]

44. The results of this poll prove that Hillary will get more Independent votes & win the presidency

due to the inversely proportional rule.

Life will be good again, yeah

[Muttocracy]

45. RCP summary of data - doesn't break it down by independents

but if the stats are right that there are more dems in the country than republicans, to win in these polls McCain must be grabbing independents.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_clinton-224.html

Two things playing in my (Bidenista) head:

David Brooks on PBS saying the Dems might regret not having nominated Biden or Dodd
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tRJ2us-0ZaU

The independent Biden supporter interviewed in NH (can't remember where I saw it) who switched to McCain when Biden dropped out because he wanted someone with experience.

It's been said plenty of places that nothing will motivate conservative-leaning voters otherwise unimpressed by the current candidates quite like a Clinton on the ticket would. I'm not saying that's fair, justified, or reasonable. That said, people don't vote on fairness, evidence, or reason.

[Tulkas]

51. Nice post

Great links, thanks.


I could have supported Biden easily, unfortunately history has shown that "resume" candidates don't do well.

I started rooting for Obama in december of '06 and have not regretted it in the least.

Biden would be a great Sec. Of State

[Muttocracy]

54. thanks back.

I have this crazy tendency to look for data in an argument :crazy:

Somehow people smear Biden as being not liberal enough or tied to corporations when the data doesn't back that up either (else he'd still be in the race).

The GOP was scrambling buy may have figured out to go with their resume candidate (McCain) around the same time we dropped all of ours.

I would have liked Obama as a VP. I'm not crazy about him as the ticket leader. Biden/Obama would have nailed the WH for 16 years. Now I'm afraid of getting zero.

And I wish everyone would stop assuming Biden would take SoState or VP. He won't under Clinton. I doubt he would under Obama. I am glad he and Dodd are keeping an eye on Dubya & Co.

[Divine Discontent]

53. that 2-1 ratio is about how it would play out...

sorry to sound depressed, but I am deeply deeply deeply concerned about bomb bomb bomb being the next resident for 8 years.

Hillary has no shame - she knows she's EXTREMELY polarizing and is the most disliked candidate, but, because of her husband's presidency, and being a female, she knows she's got a built in majority of DEMOCRATIC voters to sew up a nomination, from what I see. Hardly ANY Repubs would vote for her, maybe 10% because of the female vote which is a fair understanding, but the Democratic vote will be down because of our party's not to excited feeling about her - outside of her extremely loyal backers - I hear nothing but derision about her as a leader, candidate, woman, etc. in the REAL world - not talking about DU's very negative stance on her outside of a few posters that I see comments from when I'm on, who really support her a bunch.

Not looking good for democracy right now...

President John McCain

:puke:

[Strawman]

55. Hillary. People are tired of war and wary of any sabre rattling bs

And McCain's domestic message is Hooveresque in its lack of empathy for people having a hard time.

He might seem competitive today in general election polls against Hillary or Obama or Edwards with independents, but come November, he won't be.

[ShadowLiberal]

56. McCain will win this matchup by far, I've been scared of a matchup like this for the last year

McCain will by far appeal to independent voters more then polarizing Hillary, no matter how much he supports the unpopular Iraq war. Worse yet even some democrats will stay home with Hillary on the ballot because of them not forgiving her for voting for voting for the Iraq war (and now for that Iran resolution).

I've been scared to death for over a year of a Hillary versus McCain or Rudy match up, and very pessimistic about our chances at claiming the white house for over a year.