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Why did Gov. Dean drop out of the race? Sharpton and Kuchinich are still..

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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:38 AM
Original message
Why did Gov. Dean drop out of the race? Sharpton and Kuchinich are still..
in and they have ranked lower in the polls and in actual voting.

Even though he could not continue to campaign in the manner that he had, he could still participate in the debates and be able to get some delegates - maybe a lot - as "buyers remorse" set in on some other candidates.

Anybody have any ideas on this??
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Dean was a serious candidate with a goal of gaining the nomination
Kucinich and Sharpton have no realistic goal of gaining the nomination, and are at best vanity candidates with a goal of pushing their issues.
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jansu Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What's wrong with pushing their issues?
Isn't that a good thing? Or do we have to be in lockstep NOW? After the convention, okay.....but until that time, all our voices should be heard!IMHO
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. I never said the issues weren't important
I just said Dean quit because he was after the nomination, and not after issues.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Importance vs. impotence
Sharpton and Kucinich's issues are rather important, wouldn't you say? Especially the oil issue, which was a big topic yesterday.

Kerry et al seem IMPOTENT by comparison. :-(

Democrats MUST listen to Kucinich and push for these issues, though I'm thinking it's way too late for society to be saved.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. I didn't say they didn't have important issues
I just said that their campaigns ran on pushing issues, and not realistically gaining the nomination. Dean ran on gaining the nomination, when he could no longer get the nomination, he quit.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Check your facts.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. my facts are correct..
...oh poster of partial phrases and little substance..... Kucinich and Sharpton have no hope, and never had any hope of winning the nomination and they both know it. Their campaigns are focused on pushing issues, however important, and not focused on WINNING, which is what Dean's campaign was focused on.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. Care to elaborate? nt
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. Running for the platform is not unique to this race.
I think that that is their intentions--definitely it is for DK, not sure about Sharpton.

If the candidates care deeply about their "pet" issues, they tend to stay in but slow their campaigning. It gives them opportunity to push them for the platform. I think DK has a couple of issues he really wants to see as planks--healthcare being the biggie (I hope for all of our sakes).
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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
46. livin up to your name
n/t
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes
because he was so far ahead earlier, very minute of his campaign had become a post mortem death watch type of thing. Every news report started with "former front runner". DK and AS are seen as protest candidates. Coverage of Dean became insulting.
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jansu Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. He is still in the race! He asked us to still vote for him.
He stopped campaigning, but he still wants delegates to take to the convention.....which gives us a chance to have a say in what is on the party platform! Vote for Dean through all the primaries! A brokered convention is what may happen and I believe that Kennedy was our nominee from a brokered convention. Worked pretty good then.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. Dean's a quitter
But his supporters keep hustling his corpse in this forum.
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I don't see Dr. Dean as a 'quitter' at all.
I think suspending his active campaign was an act of courage and dignity. Dr. Dean chose to do what he did and what he continues to do for both immediate, pragmatic reasons as well as 'big picture', long-term ones. Dr. Dean wants his ideas 'brought to the table' when the platform is drafted, and also wants to maintain a hand in reshaping our party--- both are legitimate goals.

We owe Dr. Dean a great deal, whetrher we are willing to admit it, or not.
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jansu Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. As usual, you are polite & thoughtful. Wish some others could see things
from someone elses point of view. From others on these boards, it seems like they won't need us, either our passion, money, time or votes!
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Thank you.
Maybe I'm just strange, but even if Dr. Dean's supporters don't support my guy in the primaries, I want your passion, organization and support for the nominee come November.

I guess some folks here enjoy smacking people around too much to keep their eye opn the donut, and not on the hole. :shrug:
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. I think Edwards is a reasonable choice
considering Kerry is the alternative. Either pales when compared to Dean. I will vote Dean in the primary and write-in for November.

Why did Dean drop out? I think as Mrgorth says, going from the front runner to former leader, being 3rd in Wisconsin. The press again sort of forced him out, I think everyone remembers that.

Presumably, he is looking for the best of the party's interest, even if they aren't, and getting Bush out seems an important point that Dean has made. Alot of his supporters are not so willing to jump to just any ABB candidate and alot are progressives, independents, Greens, etc., and they certainly can't be expected to vote for someone against their political views like Kerry for instance.

Kucinich and Sharpton are protest candidates like Nader, but within the Party. They had no hope of winning in 2004, but were somewhat helpful in preventing Dean from winning. They can influence the party platform to an extent, but there is no hope of taking the presidency and affecting immediate change as Dean could have done. I totally agree that DK is more progressive than Dean, but Dean was electable, at least up until the point where the media assassinated him.
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littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. Sounds as though you are threatening to take your ball and go home.
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Well put, Cuban_Liberal!
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 09:36 AM by asthmaticeog
I've never been a Dean supporter (DK all the way!), but the trashing of the man and his supporters that's gone on in these forums is a great disappointment to me. Dean's supporters have been passionate, active, and willing to do the legwork, dammit, and they should be praised, and Dean himself deserves enormous praise for sparking that movement. That's what being a citizen in a democracy is supposed to be about, and I salute them all. Can't wait to see what the doctor does come convention time!

Edit: clumsy phrasing corrected, I hope
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. Agreed. I was never a Dean supporter, but he has my admiration
for getting the campaign off to a GREAT start by being aggressive and inspiring his troops.

His candidacy made it realistic for the Dems to win the White House. Without him, the only place we would be hearing about the campaign is on this and that "other" board.

Way to go, Dr., and to all his supporters! I don't think we've heard the last of any of you or your candidate.

I hope not--even if I occasionally post in disagreement with you. I admire your intensity and energy, as well as Dr. Dean's.
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searchingforlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Dean is a realist.
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 09:07 AM by brigadoon
I believe he recognized the fact that he was not going to be a viable candidate and felt that he could better serve his followers by harnessing the grassroots movement and helping it to define itself.

He and Kucinich helped to define the issues that have become the meat of the democratic campaign and I think neither one of them get the respect they deserve for that. They weren't afraid to talk about the elephant in the room while it was not popular. Both of them tested the water before other more well-known candidates had the courage to put their toes in the water.

He has been very active since his announcement and people on his mailing lists have received encouragement to continue to be involved and to support the nominee, to not lose focus on the objective - that of defeating GWB.

It amazes me that some people still feel the need to be vindictive. This type of post just exacurbates the wound that he is trying to heal.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Exactly ...
if any other candidate dropped out and their supporters kept propping him (or her) up, they'd be telling people to "let go" and "move on".

Funny how that works.

Quitters never win and winners never quit.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. I think I would disagree, ZW
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 09:18 AM by Mairead
My sense is that Dean understood that the rug had been deliberately pulled from under him and so he decided to deny Media Inc the pleasure of continuing to batter and sneer at him.

On one level I regret that he's still requesting votes and delegates, but on another I understand--he's still in it, he's simply not actively campaigning at present. That seems legitimate, to me. What effect it will eventually have on the whole outcome is something I suspect he's satisfied to view as undefined right now.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. I think he SHOULD request votes and delegates--deals MUST be made
and there is a platform to be built. This is gonna be the kind of COnvention I LOVE: wheeling and dealing, scrappy delegates, contentious candidates, and the construcion of the platform will be rowdy as well.

I'm glad your guy will be represented at the convention, even though I never could support him. The media is gonna lap it up compared to the funeral that will be the Repube Convention.

He has to know he will have a real presence at the Convention and he makes for good TV (I mean that in the nicest possible way; he has great presence)--he is still GOOD for the Dems.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Dean will fight another day*
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. Actually
a few of us are now pulling for Kucnich. Might want to keep that in mind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. I hate to say it, since I'm not pro-Dean, but he had more respect for the
voters in the democratic primary electorate than do Kucinich and Sharpton. He realized, like everyone else who dropped out before him, that it was unfair to most undecided democrats to never let them have the opportunity to have any more than a soundbite debate. Kucinich and Sharpton obviously don't care about that.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Check your facts.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. Lessons learned from Bush II & J-Lo
Only people with lowered expectations put upon them survive. Kerry should do just fine.
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Dean was a real candidate
Kucinich and Sharpton are fringe candidates who never had a chance. The only reason they continue their "candidacies" is so they can get on television and talk about their pet issues.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Check your facts.
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. Fact: Kucinich has lost twenty contests in a row
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Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. pet issues or real issues?
Sharpton's pet issue recently, get delegates to have an influence on the platform.

Kucinich's pet issues, the unjustified occupation of Iraq, the results of NAFTA.

These are pet issues? Since when?
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
48. Not pet issues.
Polls show a majority of Americans are very skeptical of job stealing trade agreements. Pet issues. Bull crap. The Democratic party does not go to bat to protect jobs and implement Health care reforms, then it is not my Democratic party.
Those Democrats who talk reforming Nafta are out right liars. Can't be done and they know it. We are fighting for pet issues that will tell us whether or not we will work for the Democratic nominee.
Give up hope on our 'pet issues' then we will just give up for the nominee, for that nominee will not be worth a damn. So we fight for the Democratic party being worth our trouble.
It is not vanity, it is forcing the Democratic nominee to not sell us out.
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
19. oohh oohh Take the money and run, singin
Writing on the wall facilitated plan B. Trippi and Dean have falling out over misspent $40 million in one state or two (snicker) and nobody asks any questions. Gosh, what a puzzle...
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. He was in to win
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 09:31 AM by bushwakker
not to publicize himself a la Rev Al. Kucinich is not serious candidate (in terms of electability) although his issues are deadly serious. His campaign is a crusade to raise awareness - not the vanity run that Sharpton's is.
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searchingforlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I disagree that Sharpton's candidacy is a vanity run.
I believe he has been a true and razor sharp voice in this campaign. True his electability was a foregone conclusion but I believe he is in it to take the focus off the white faces in the crowd and to show that there is continuity between the opinions of minorities and whites.

I for one am glad he is still in it. We need minorities to feel that we respect all peoples in this party AND he is surgical in many of his remarks.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. It's not about making "minorities" "feel" anything
Dems need to address issues that voters - all voters - care about. Merely having a black face in there does nothing. I don't think that Sharpton has any real appeal in the "black community". They see him as the scam artist that most whites see him as. The only thing he has in common with Jesse Jackson is skin color. I only make this comparison because some have said that he has replaced JJ as the "leader of the black community". Sharpton has never been down in the trenches when his own best interests weren't involved. He will endorse the GOP when it suits his interests. I won't go into my reasons for despising Sharpton but suffice it to say that GOPers love to see him out there representing our party. That should tell you something.
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. that distinction cannot exist
so how come you feel the need to try to make it?
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newsjunkie Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
25. still voting for Dean
and here's hoping he gets many delegates and has a great time at the convention. He was always the best candidate and still is. The DNC screwed up again bigtime by working against his efforts.
I can't wait till (he announces it on) March 18th to see where the DFA organization goes to next.


Howard Dean in college
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. Were it not for Dean,
Kerry would simply be running as Bush lite, and he's been forced to confront the issues, thanks to the good Governor. But it won't last. Dean and his ideals are being swept under the rug, so that the politicians can go back to business as usual.

It saddens me -- sickens me, really -- that Dean got trashed so by the media and by so many here on DU. He was the first major candidate to speak out against the war. And Kucinich supporters, much as I respect you, your guy has not been a major candidate at any point in this.

We haven't held our caucuses in Kansas yet. I would like to go to the convention as a Dean delegate, or as an uncommitted. Kerry is simply not the right man for the job, and I'm sorrier than I can express that there's been this mad rush to jump on his bandwagon.

Of course, given that those currently in power will do all they can to stay in power, it may not really matter who the Democratic nominee is.
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Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. they still have caucuses in Kansas?
cool.
I remember sneaking into one 20 years ago to vote for John Anderson. Only time I've ever registered as a Republican so I could do that.
Maybe you can get a Dean delegate from Kansas, continue its populist tradition.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
28. Sharpton and Kuchinich were never expected to win.
They do not challenge the leaders' positions in the polls and the leaders are afraid of angering their supporters by asking them to leave the campaign.
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rdfi-defi Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. "they do not challenge the leaders' position in the polls"........
they just challenge the leaders' positions on the issues, which according to some makes them unelectable. but if they did not challenge the leaders' position on the issues, they would then be able to challenge the leaders' position in the polls.........
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rdfi-defi Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. as far as dean is concerned,
i feel eyelash deep in it. many dean (not all) supporters berated candidates like kucinich and sharpton, they called them unelectable. now dean is out of the race and some of those same people insist on voting for dean anyway. what is more unelectable than not being in the race?

this is not meant to flame or to upset anyone but, i never thought dean was very good on the issues, he seemed very status quo. from his insurance co subsidy plan to his half way, no voting record, anti-war stance.

sharpton and kucinich are in it until the convention, (and hopefully beyond), just accept it and applaud their determination.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. So true-what IS more unelectable than not being in the race
good point- one I've tried to make myself but you put it quite succinctly!

:hi: and welcome rdfi-defi

Great post!!

Peace
DR
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. "just accept it and applaud their determination."
Ok I will! :)

WELCOME rdfi-defi!

TWL
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
42. becasue they are not trying to win
are spending little money and in the case of one, are riding this credit cow till it drops dead in a presidential suite somewhere.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. Pragmatism I suppose to the question of WHY?
Gatta know when to fold um

Swimming with a losing hand has poor odds unless signals indicate otherwise. No such signals.

Perhaps he was thinking of the future and his crew.

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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. Not raising money?
Yes, Kucinich does not have a golden egg from special interests. But not raising money. Not true at all .. His supporters give until it hurts and are not effected what so ever by the media's trashing of Dean, Kucinich, and Carol Mosley Braun. From the very start.
Dennis has raised almost $10 million. With $4 million to soon come from the FEC. Dennis has not run up the credit card debt without a solid base of contributors to work from.
And those contributors will not be effected by the money machine wanting unwanted voices silenced ; because our 'pet issues' are our goal for the well being of the American people.
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