This country needs Obama... and toned down rhetoric. :)

[water]

Hello!

This is my first post here at DU, and it might be my last, depending on your tolerance for differing opinions.

I intend to vote Democratic this election regardless of the nominee, though I would strongly prefer Obama. The Republicans must not be allowed to keep control of the White House, especially with their current slate of candidates.

I am a libertarian, and several of my libertarian friends (none of us have land-lines, so we aren't counted in polls) are voting along with me. The Democratic Party is relying on libertarian-minded people like us (in addition to more centrist voters) in order to pull off a victory, and it's looking like it's all going to fall into place. Neither party can win with just its "base" alone, which is why come the general election, Obama is most likely the candidate to attract the most libertarian/centrist voters; as such, he is the most likely candidate to defeat the Republican nominee. Please nominate Obama!

I have lurked both here at DU and at FR for quite a while now. In general, DU posters are much more articulate and reasonable than their FR counterparts. In fact, reading FR makes me wonder whether or not they expect anyone else to vote for their candidates! If FR posters are the "base" that their candidates will have to appease, why on earth would anyone want those candidates in power? I certainly don't.

The Democratic "base" is why I'm writing this. Lately, I've seen nothing but venomous insults, incredibly unfair attacks/allegations, childish "I'm-covering-my-ears-I-can't-hear-you" behavior, and "Kool-Aid" allegations (whomever disagrees must be brainwashed) coming from a group of people who pride themselves in being tolerant and intellectually ahead of the curve.

I'm no fan of Reagan. He gets a lot of credit for things that actually despite his policies, not because of them (much like FDR, though I'm sure you won't agree with me here).

After Obama mentioned Reagan in the context of being a good politician (not a good policy-maker), the ridiculous outpouring of insults was shocking. Most posters viciously celebrated his death, throwing (incredibly vile) childish-insult after childish-insult. Many of those posters claimed to have been alive and politically aware during his terms... is this how 30-40 year old Democrats act?

However, even worse were some of the allegations against him. He murdered gays by not funding and speaking out about anti-HIV efforts? What? Are you stealing from me by not giving me money? Did you break into my house by not paying for my security system?

In addition, many posters have called Ron Paul a fascist. A fascist? Excuse me? Call him a capitalist, call him a greedy capitalist pig, but don't call an anti-government capitalist a fascist. Hillary Clinton and John Edwards are more fascist than Ron Paul (both support regulations that are much easier for large businesses to deal with, choking out smaller competitors. Large businesses often love and lobby for these kind of regulations).

These kind of insults do nothing but turn off likely non-left-wing voters, the very voters you are relying on to vote for your candidate! When someone curious about supporting Democratic candidates comes to DU and sees all of this, do you think they are more or less likely to vote along side you?

Obama appeals to me (and other libertarians) because he is the least likely candidate to try to appease the "base" when in the national spotlight. He's much more concerned with appearing electable and statesman-like. Couple that with the fact that modern Democratic candidates move towards the center for the general election and either further towards the center while in office, and you have the perfect candidate with whom to kick Republicans out of power.

Please take all of this as constructive criticism. :)


In order for us to defeat the Republicans, you have to accept that a large number of your voters will either be center-liberal, centrist, or libertarian. Don't turn them away! If a Democrat does win the White House, you must accept that he/she cannot govern from the far-left without alienating the very people that brought him/her into power.

Let's not throw away our chances to kick the Republicans out of the White House (and more importantly, keep them out)! They have been a disaster, and it's worth toning down the rhetoric a bit in order to achieve it.

[Nailzberg]

1. Omama?

[wndycty]

2. LOL

:kick:

[water]

3. Thank you!

:)

[KennedyGuy]

4. Obama?

[MH1]

5. Omama or Obama.

At this point I think DU needs Omama more than anything.

Preferably a mama that won't put up with all the horseshit. :)

Anyway welcome to DU! :hi:

and yes, Ron Paul is a greedy capitalist pig.

[rug]

6. "seem" much more articulate?

[water]

7. You're right, I better change that.

[stravu9]

8. He's a Rookie

making rookie mistakes and This American does not need him.

[DJ13]

9. He's a Rookie

"making rookie mistakes and This American does not need him."


Unlike the Houswife of a former President?

:rofl:

[stravu9]

12. not supporting the HILL, Sorry !

do you NEVER TIRE of being WRONG???

[readmoreoften]

10. There are left libertarians and right libertarians. If you're anti-working class then you're a

right-wing libertarian. Obama's probably a better candidate for you than for me.

I'll never vote for him because I have not one iota of trust in the man. He could be Bush with a more pleasant demeanor and a few meaningless market reforms for all I know. If you're a libertarian then you should know what the Council on Foreign Relations is, and you should be a little freaked out that Obama and his wife are so involved.

I'm a left-libertarian and if a candidate wants my vote they'd better damn-well earn it.

[water]

11. Who are you supporting?

[nevergiveup]

13. You did good!

I agree with most of what you say.

[tishaLA]

14. First, Ron Paul is a racist fuckhead

and neither Sen Clinton nor Johnny Reid Edwards is "fascist" except in Jonah Goldberg's lame brain.

Second--and I've never posted this on DU before--I was happy to see Reagan dead, but then I had second thoughts when I had to watch his canonization on TV for the next week. Reagan was a scurrilous criminal whose outrageous policies harmed millions of people. He should be glad georgie came along, if only because georgie makes him look almost reasonable by comparison.

[Tulkas]

15. The DU is dominated by the far left

Centrists are not tolerated well here.

The ....."The Democratic "base" is why I'm writing this. Lately, I've seen nothing but venomous insults, incredibly unfair attacks/allegations, childish "I'm-covering-my-ears-I-can't-hear-you" behavior, and "Kool-Aid" allegations (whomever disagrees must be brainwashed) coming from a group of people who pride themselves in being tolerant and intellectually ahead of the curve."..... statement you posted is in error if you think that this place is representative of the Base.

This also pertains to the Ron Paul and Reagan comments, this is from the fringe, not from the majority of democrats.

I consider myself a left leaning moderate and am way out of place here, but it is still informative.


Welcome to DU and good luck.


P.S. Grow up... get a real phone !!!!! (Just Kidding..kinda)

[BootinUp]

16. This was a decent post, taken in spirit offered

even thogh I disagree with you that Obama is the strongest candidate in the GE. Once Hillary gets a chance to campaign with a national campaign budget people will be less likely to believe all the nasty inuendo that has been piled onto her for 16 years. If anyone is interested she has been the most popular female in America for several years running.

[ClericJohnPreston]

20. Hello and goodbye!

Three scourges I always like writing about:

1. Libertarians
2. Fundies
3. Conservatives

As a Ron Paul fan, you must know that he has issued over 50 polemics directed against Jews, minorities and championing white supremacy in his newsletters of the '90s. You do know your candidate's background, right?

You know that Paul is favored and championed by Christian Theocrats like Alex Jones, right?

You know that the Stormfront, the voice of the Aryan Nation supports Ron Paul, right?

Happy with that skippy?

Libertarianism is a MISNOMER as it is a crock. It has never , ever worked in any Nation, and exists in wild-eyed theory only, as it is UNWORKABLE. It's adherents have virtually no social conscience.

The fact that you can so easily go to Obama from the Libertarian side says much about Obama the candidate.

[BootinUp]

21. You must have meant

to reply to the OP.

[water]

24. I'm not a Ron Paul fan!

I dislike him for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to his stance on immigration. I was defending him as a non-fascist.

[water]

26. Right-wing troll?

I am probably further to the left than you on several issues. :)

[bigwillq]

17. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Zorra]

18. Look, the least intelligent Democrat is brighter than the smartest RWer.

Especially a RW troll.

Buh-bye! See ya!
:hi:

[ginchinchili]

19. Our country is in one of the most complicated situations it's ever been in.

Obama doesn't have any experience. Are you insane? Hillary isn't qualified either, but then either are any of the Republicans. You'd better strap your children and grandchildren in because we're in for a long, miserable time and may never come out of this. The unintelligent are in charge now in both Parties, so basically we're fucked.

[katsy]

22. "...the very voters you are relying on to vote for your candidate!"

Thanks for your concern about our bad behavior.

Sorry to burst your inflated sense of self-importance but, no, we don't rely on, or need ron paul supporters, to vote for our candidates.

You simply aren't that important.

[TankLV]

23. first? who were you before you were kicked off the first time?

the country needs toned down rhetoric - from the obamabots!!!

[Barack_America]

25. Hello water! And welcome to DU! Thanks for your articulate, intelligent post!

I hope that you stay, but I wouldn't blame you if you didn't.

But rest assured that some of us here truly do understand that the President we elect will be for all Americans. And I, for one, am extremely happy to have a libertarian on board!

I look forward to having intelligent discussions and intriguing debates with you in the future.

[water]

27. Thanks! :)

I can't imagine the country having to endure four more years from the current ruling party.

Republicans have gone from an anti-nation-building party to a low-poll-numbers?-it's-time-to-start-a-war party, and this country's treasury can't handle another war.

[Barack_America]

29. I'm right there with you, water.

And I hope you decided to stick around! ;)

[ShadowLiberal]

28. You say exactly what needs to be said, NO ONE can win with just their base

Thank you for saying all of this. I personally consider myself something in between a liberal and libertarian, and I've believed that the overconfidence in the democratic party that we're going to win in 08 is going to cost us the white house. I've been fearing for over a year that we're going to screw this up by nominating Hillary (with over half the nation already saying they would never vote for her). I will admit, I tend to be very pessimistic.

A lot of the people here are definitely far to the left, but what they need to understand is that the electorate DOES NOT favor an extreme liberal as much as an extreme conservative. Almost twice as many Americans call themselves conservative then liberal, which means that appealing to moderates and independents, is MUCH more important for us democrats. It's a fact of life, we have to deal with it rather then stick our heads in the sand and deny it if we want to win the white house.

Barack Obama should be a gift from god to many people here, he's ranked more liberal then Clinton (the only other democrat with a shot at the nomination right now), he's been more consistent in his positions then Clinton, and at the same time he appeals to the middle and independents FAR more then Hillary. Hillary Clinton on the other hand is so polarizing that she pisses off almost everyone. So many extreme liberals here at DU have been posting throughout the year that they would NEVER vote for Hillary in a general election, even if she got the nomination. At the same time there's no candidate that conservatives hate more then Hillary, and no one who would motivate them to go to the polls more then her.

I've been browsing some conservative forums the last few days, and some of the comments I found on Hillary and Obama were interesting. At one place I saw some conservatives who said they'd prefer Obama got elected instead of Hillary, other posters replied saying "no no no, Obama is even more liberal, he's just as bad as Hillary", but those same posters who preferred Obama replied saying "I know he's a bit more liberal then her, but he would cut the fighting in Washington and polarization in half, I'd much rather have a more liberal president along with a more civil and calm environment then continued fighting over every little thing with Hillary in the white house". These aren't their exact words, but it's what some people there basically said.