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What does Obama really believe? What does he really think about Reagan?

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:33 PM
Original message
What does Obama really believe? What does he really think about Reagan?
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 08:34 PM by jackson_dem
Forget the spin. Find out for yourself. He wrote this book months before his campaign so it reflects his modern thinking.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry...

Everyone who supports him should read it and if he is the nominee all Americans should read it. We need to read the nutrition information before buying the Obama product.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. OH NOESS-- HE DIDN'T SAY ALL REPUBLICANS HATE AMERICA!!!
OH no, that means he's a Republican-- forget that he's been against the Iraq War since before it was cool, forget that he started his career helping poor people as a community organizer, HE'S JUST ONE MORE GAWD DAM REPUGNICAN!
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. What is there to hide about Obama? You are very defensive
I am personally shocked there are some supporters of his who haven't read it. You should know what you are voting for.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Have you read Four Trials by John Edwards? It Takes a Village by Hillary Clinton?
Has Dennis Kucinich written any books that you've read?

And you haven't proven he said a damn thing-- either that he said Reagan changed the trajectory of America more than Bill Clinton, which is not a statement of support for Reagan IN ANY WAY, or that he said he secretly wants to destroy American government, invade every country and turn America into a theocracy.
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hertopos Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. There is a difference..
We all knows very little about Obama.
We alread knows way too much about Hillary.

We learned a lot about Edwards through last election.

It is a little strange that you sounds like you don't want to read his book.

One thing emerged from this Reagan thing. He is very much aligned with DLC rather than progressive left. I am not talking about video. I am talking about what he wrote in his book.

Hertopos
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. No, there is not a single difference at all.
You're saying Obama wrote things in a book that are different than what his campaign is promoting.

Listen up, kid: JOHN EDWARDS, HILLARY CLINTON, OR DENNIS KUCINICH COULD HAVE DONE THE EXACT SAME THING.

It's just your fault that you apparently can't even trust Obama even to accept his word, but you accept what Edwards, Clinton, and Kucinich say.

Have YOU read Obama's book?

And also, I remember in 2004 the DLC tried to list Obama on their list of "up-and-coming members of the DLC." When Obama found out, he demanded they take him off, because they had put him on the list without his permission or knowledge.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Al From all but endorsed Obama and Hillary while rejecting Edwards this year
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. 'all but' or did he?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. He said he has no problem with BOTH Hillary and Obama
While attacking Edwards.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Well according to this here link, the most he said was he thought it was a 2-person race
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. You didn't read it all. He attacked Edwards for the same reason he attacked Gore
He doesn't like populist campaigns.

-snip-

Its not a, you know, he doesnt take the tack that necessarily I agree with. What weve seen so far in this campaign is optimism.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. alright, so he says he doesn't like the way Edwards is running his campaign...
When Edwards is talking alot about "Hope and change."

Who does that sound like?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. The DLC attacked Gore's populism. That is what he meant by pessismism
Who does that sound like? John Edwards. He created the slogan "hope is on the way" in 2004 and then someone else took it a few years later. "Change"? Everyone runs on change if they are running against an incumbent party. Even some rethugs like Romney and Huckabee are running on "change."
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. so ok let me get this straight: Barack Obama is a Republican because he's running on hope,
his campaign slogan is "Change We Can Believe In," and he once said that trying to increase economic growth is not a bad thing.

Is that what you're trying to say?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. My belief is Obama is as Democratic as Bill Clinton was
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 09:14 PM by jackson_dem
The "economic pie" line is something conservative Republicans used and then was adopted by the DLC.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. cute.
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hertopos Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. I disagree
BTW, please don't call me kid. That's offensive to 53 year old working mother.

Obama talks much less about his policy than others.
I read some exserts of his book.

I only have that much time.
You like Obama that's fine. My first Choce was Gore. With what counts me most, my current choice is Hillary.

I really hope Clinton-Obama ticket to happen.

16 years of Democrat sounds just so great.

Hertopos
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Edwards' made a mistake not writing a book about his worldview
Hillary's book was written years ago. Both also have long histories and have been vetted. Obama is new, unknown and wrote a book months before running for president. The best place to learn about him is inside those 360 pages.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Obama is hardly 'unknown.' Again-- have you read the book?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. His name is known, not his views
I have the book sitting right here. The book is one reason I never saw Obama as being what so many hope he is.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. His views aren't known, despite running for President? You mean he's never
ever taken a stand on anything-- despite calling Iraq a 'dumb war' way back in 2003, before he could ever dream of running for President?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Case in point: Few knew he thought Democrats went too far in the 60's and 70's until yesterday
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. he said "Democratic policy makers," and he makes a valid point about not focusing on where the pie
is going to come from.

Is it not a valid point to say we should not only think about how to divide up our shared wealth, but also ways we can increase our shared wealth?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. He said what the DLC has been saying from day1. Obamites are now pro-DLC?
Don't buy the Reagan-DLC code. What they mean is moving away from social programs to focus on economic growth. They aren't going to directly say that so Reagan and his buddies came up with the good sounding phrase of "expanding the pie." It was an attack on Democratic use of government to solve social programs. It is no accident Obama is the only Democrat without a universal health care plan.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. hahahahaha-- the only major candidate to never be associated with the DLC is now
THE DLC CANDIDATE!!

Also, after 2 seconds of looking on teh internets, I found this: http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070125-the_time_has_co/
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Obama used to say he was for universal health care
He was called on it and admitted his plan was not universal but "near universal." He then claimed his plan was universal right before the Iowa vote.

Read the book and you can see the DLC's philosophy all over it.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. From Obama's Website:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare /

We now face an opportunity and an obligation to turn the page on the failed politics of yesterday's health care debates My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don't have health insurance, you will have it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Damn. Obama is lying and has no shame about it
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. don't be a dick.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. His plan is not universal. That is a fact. Obama should not lie about it
Talk about giving people false hope!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Really, the expression WHO KNEW?? comes to mind. nt
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Want to see heads explode? Read what he says about Bill Clinton
Preview: the man who many progressives who hate the Clintons have latched onto because of their hate for Clinton thinks Pres. Clinton's policies were progressive. It is right there! In HIS book!

There is nothing nefarious in the book. He is a Democrat. What the book does show is Obama is not as left-wing as he is made out to be. Nor is Obama as left-wing as he used to be. Krugman looked at the policies of the three and concluded Obama is the most centrist (conservative) of the three. He must have also read Obama's book.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Obama seems to inspire a cult-like head in the sand loyalty...
That's a little scary because we can't afford to make a mistake this time.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Really, more so than supporters of Dennis Kucinich, despite DK's opposition to Roe v. Wade?
More so than John Edwards supporters, who still believe he's going to win the nomination despite every indicator saying he's not? More so than Hillary Clinton supporters who still believe she's a progressive?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Well, here at DU all of those groups can be pretty cult-like...
But in the real world, only Obama and Paul seem to inspire that kind of blind allegiance. Just an opinion, of course.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Nice duck. "Just an opinion! You can't criticize that!"
Well, it's just my opinion that you're making stuff up. But that's just my opinion.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Of course it's an opinion, that's why I said he "seems" to inspire, etc...
Why so defensive?? I like Obama ~ but I'm not afraid to know the truth about his positions and inclinations.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. why so defensive? you just basically said I belong to a cult on a par with Ron Paul supporters.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. My response was to post #2...
...about Obama supporters not reading his book ~ it wasn't a post to you or about you personally. (I don't know you, do I?)

I stand by my assessment that both Obama and Paul seem to inspire a cult-like head in the sand following ~ if you're not like that, it wasn't about you.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. if your favored presidential candidate was to release a book tomorrow, would you read it?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Yes. I read Kerry, Dean, and Clark's books in 2004 to learn about them
I didn't read Edwards' because that was about trials, not policy.
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Good for you. I'd like to shake your hand for having enough time to read for pleasure,
And apparently such a huge distrust in what candidates or their campaigns say they're going to do that you have to read it in a book.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. 360 pages. 10 pages a night and you are done in 36 days
It isn't distrust but curiosity. I want to know as much about them before deciding to support them. None of the candidates are inherently that much better than the others. They are similar on policy. I need to read the fine print to choose one.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. I don't have a favored candidate at the moment...
But I've been a Dem activist for over 30 years ~ imo the tactics candidates use say as much about them as their books.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. What is there to know about Obama you haven't already 'exposed' today?
Thread after thread after thread. Why not at least keep the discussion in one, two, three, a dozen threads?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Why are Obamites so afraid of people reading a 360 page book written by Obama outling his worldview?
Maybe they know what is inside the pages does not comport with the image Obama has crafted for Democratic primary voters?
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Afraid? Got proof? I got that book for my dad for Father's Day!
And he's alot more crazy left-wing than I am, and he loved that book!
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Why would I care who reads his book?
:freak:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. i did`t see reagan`s name mentioned
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Then you didn't read it
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 08:44 PM by jackson_dem
Reagan is mentioned several times. Pages 31-33, 36, 43, 147, 156-58, 181-82, 201, 209, 288-289, 293.

Here is the worst quote:



Pages 156-157

"The conservative revolution Reagan helped usher in gained traction because Reagan's central insight--that the liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucratic, with Democratic policy makers more obsessed with slicing the economic pie than with growing he pie--contained a good deal of truth."

He thinks 60's and 70's Democratic liberals were wrong and Reagan "corrected" some of their errors. The question for us is what "corrections" Reagan made does Obama approve of?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. i`m going to think about the pages 156-7
yea i would like to hear how he would have corrected the liberal welfare state growing in my word "bloated".hmm thanks for the reply and this gives me something to think about.

as for ronnie that`s another story
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's one book I'll never read
so if he's got even a few sentences in there, in praise of "The Great Prevaricator" aka Ronald 'Bedtime for Bonzo' Raygun, I'll skip the whole book for sure.

If he wrote it in a book, fine, but just keep it in there, don't ask me to read it and definitely don't publicize it like I need to hear anything good about this repug version of Frankenstein's monster.

You have no idea what happens to me when someone invokes the name of this wretched SOB, it's post traumatic stress disorder, El Salvador all over again.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. You are supporting him but won't read 360 pages to find out what he believes?
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NoodleBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. have you read the Bible? Why won't you read that to find out what every Christian believes?
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. I've read a number of bibles
such as the Hindu Bhagavadgītā, the Buddhist Tripitaka ('three baskets'), Egyptian Book of the Dead. A few others.

I haven't read much in the Koran yet.

As an aetheist, I like Marx's Das Kapital a lot, and Lenin, too. "The 3 Sources and 3 Components" was a real mindblower when I first read it as a young adult about 30 years ago.

I suspect Obama doesn't have much inspiring to write about, although I think he might make a good politician.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. Actually the Christ fable is a mish-mash of earlier mythologies
Besides the Judeo-Christian Bible contains pornography, I don't need to read the stuff, porn is pretty much available everywhere else, and some of other parts are rather offensive to a rational-minded person. The OT really sucks, and the NT, it's not very original as a religious text.

I've always liked Dr. Sigmund Freud's last monograph, "Moses and Monotheism", though!


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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Nah, I can make educated guesses
based on what Obama is saying/doing on a daily basis. In the press, internet, radio, TV, ect.

I can read the website and the forums, and I don't often read a lot of printed books, to tell you the truth.

If he wants to digitize the book and make it available this way, I might browse it as e-text.

If there is something outlandish, it should get him plenty of bad publicity so I'm sure he's keeping it pretty average and normal.

OTHO, he doesn't even have a current policy statement on Cuba which is what I'm interested in.

Also, saying it and doing it are often 2 different things, though.

I'd recommend he cool down the Raygun rhetoric if he wants my long-term support.
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hertopos Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
46. You are now scaring me.
I don't have much extra time as a 53 year old working mother but I just bought a book about Hillary 'woman in chief'. It's unautherized biograph and includes lots of not so flattering facts. I am actually a realist and choosing Hillary is based on my that traits.

'If he wrote it in a book, fine, but just keep it in there, don't ask me to read it and definitely don't publicize it like I need to hear anything good about this repug version of Frankenstein's monster. '

How could you say such? You are Obama supporter. You need to know the truth about him.

Hertopos
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. books aren't going to necessarily predict political behavior
and I really don't think Hillary, Obama or Edwards will ever make themselves into great writers of the calibre of a Karl Marx or a V.I. Lenin. Maybe decent politicians, but not great writers and great politicians at the same time, like Lenin, Fidel Castro, and Mao Zedong. These Dems are pragmatic but not particularly inspiring as revolutionary thinkers.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. but sometimes indicate worldview, vision, intentions - what you want to know
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 09:31 PM by robbedvoter
when you pick a candidate.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. sometimes, that is the question
JE "sometimes" supports the IWR, and "sometimes" he doesn't!

Unfortunately, you don't get killed 'sometimes', you get killed one time and only one time, and that's all she wrote.

Right now, I'd say Obama has a 70-30 chance of losing my vote and it'll get worse if he keeps up the Raygun crap.

I haven't even read all of Jimmy Carter's books yet, and you expect me to catch up on Obama anytime soon? I sometimes like to do things besides reading, like gardening, walking in a park and riding my bicycle, too. I try to keep myself entertained in my free time, so books aren't always the first priority.

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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
55. la-la-la-la-hands in ears - not hearing you....don't interfere with my fantasy...
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