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A serious question "if shuck and jive is racist" and I think it is, then why isn't "shrill" sexist?

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:27 PM
Original message
A serious question "if shuck and jive is racist" and I think it is, then why isn't "shrill" sexist?
Both terms are used overwhelmingly to describe one group of people but are on some occassions used to describe other groups. Both terms are offensive and insulting. So, why is one OK, while the other isn't?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's supposed to be "shuffle and jive," and they're both unacceptable. Halperin's e-mail is "full."
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Shrill is sexist
And shuck and jive is racist.

And?

:shrug:
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. along with "cackle"
compliments of Tweety
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good question!
Because there's no Women's caucus in Congress?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Wow
No comment.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Am I wrong? Correct me, if I am.
Or is it because you assume I am against another caucus that is there? If so, why don't you try asking me a question about that?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Nice try
Interesting little trap.

Have fun playing!

:hi:
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Actually, it was a straight-forward question about what it was that seems
to have been a problem with my first post in this thread.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Uh huh
Keep it up!
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. But there is an India Caucus ...right Hillary?
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Neither's okay.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ive been thinking this exact thing.
Im interested to see the responses you get.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Shrill" was used by a random blogger. "Shuck n' Jive" by a Clinton surrogate.
While I would argue that "shrill" is sexist, you can't attribute it to Obama or Edwards. There is a HUGE difference between what bloggers say and what surrogates of campaigns say, in terms of relevance.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It was just used by a time reporter
and I have heard Chris Matthews say it with my very own ears. All defended here.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Time reporters and Matthews vs. Andrew Cuomo
Time reporters and Matthews = not affiliated with any campaign
Andew Cuomo = Clinton surrogate

There is a BIG difference there!
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think they're both relatively offensive.
Some people don't intend their use that way, but they remain terms usually used to describe one group of people.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. They are old (dated) phrases
like saying "Groovy" If you hear it, the speaker must be at least 45 years old.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. I thought the joke was that Krugman was shrill?
Atrios kept on doing that one no?
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. as a woman I don't find "Shrill" sexist- * is often shrill-
so are many male speakers.

What about calling John Kerry's way of speaking "droning"? is that sexist?

(male bees are drones, and all male bees do is sit around, eat and fertilize eggs.)
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DemCam Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I have never heard a man labeled "shrill"
and certainly have never seen Bush labeled as such. I can think
of many words to say...but "shrill" has never come to mind. And
no...droning on is not used exclusively for males...nor can it surely
be construed to be sexist. I would say "prick" would be.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. you've inspired me to do some mining and make a seperate
post.

I've heard many men called shrill- I'm guilty of calling some shrill myself.

peace-

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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Maybe it's not sexist because it's one of Hannity's favorite ways to describe Al Gore.
"Shrill and Unhinged" is Sean Ins(h)anity's favorite anti-Gore mantras.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. I've said repeatedly that using "shrill" and "cackle"
to describe Clinton, is sexist Happy to say it again
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I agree
I was shocked that the Time reporter used the term to describe Hillary.
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ArkySue Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Re: Shuck and jive
Webster's New World Dictionary
shuck
n.
1. a shell, pod, or husk; esp., the husk of an ear of corn
2. the shell of an oyster or clam >3 < pl. > < Informal > something valueless "not worth shucks"
4. < Slang > a) a hoax or fraud b) a fraudulent person or thing; phony
vt.
1. to remove shucks from (corn, clams, etc.)
2. to remove like a shuck "to shuck one's clothes"
3. to fool or hoax
vi.
< Slang > to fool or deceive, often in a playful way
-------------
jive
vt., vi.
< Slang > to speak (to) in a way that is exaggerated, insincere, flippant, etc., esp. in trying to fool or mislead
n.
1. < Slang > talk used in jiving someone
2. former term for JAZZ or SWING (c. 1930-45)
adj.
< Slang > insincere, misleading, fake, fraudulent, etc.
-------------

I see nothing in the definitions referring to race.


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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. I find both to be largely unacceptable. Anyone who is offended by one and not the other
is a sad partisan.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've heard men called shrill
and I don't think shuck and jive was racist, at least, I don't think Andrew Cuomo was implying anything racist when he said that.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. This is the kind of rhetoric that guarantees failure for the Democrats.
Shuck and jive isn't any more racist than shrill is sexist. They're words, get over it and on to substance, like why the Democrats insist on fighting over two candidates, neither of whom can win the general election...and your post exemplifies why.
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