Even Kerry knows Edwards is finished

[LittleBlue]

I'm sure he would have held his endorsement if Edwards had any hope of winning. I think he wasn't endorsing Hillary anyway, but he waited for NH to make sure Obama wasn't just an Iowa wonder.

To Edwards supporters: Will it take mathematical elimination before he concedes? At what point should he concede? (Losing SC, Nev, or both?)

[ingac70]

1. Edwards should hang out...

through Super Tuesday to see how he comes out in the Southern states. A lot folks 'round here do base their choice on accents.

[TheWraith]

13. I'm not convinced he will.

A person needs more than a southern accent to win, they need money and organization, and Edwards is lacking in money. I suspect he'd rather get out than continue to split the anti-status-quo vote with Obama, and potentially causing Obama to lose places he might have won.

[OHdem10]

2. so you are concerned Edwards being in ihe race hurts Obama

[Clarkansas]

56. He does hurt Obama

which helps Clinton.

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. Thank you for your concern.

[New Earth]

4. um

no

[inthebrain]

5. I think the endorsement and Richardsons withdrawl

Opens the door for Kooch to kick the crap out of Edwards.

[saracat]

6. How about never?

[avaistheone1]

9. You read my mind.

[LittleBlue]

10. Even if mathematically eliminated? That suggests delusion

Why should a man stay in the race with no chance of winning? I just asked at what point should he consider dropping out.

[avaistheone1]

12. I sure the Edwards campaign has done their own math & have satisfied themselves it is important to

stay in the race.

[LittleBlue]

14. That is a political answer. For me, if Obama had lost the first big 4

I would have suggested he drop out. That's being realistic. I'm asking you to set a standard by which he should follow. If you can't answer, I must assume you think he will be eliminated and don't want to face that reality.

[stickernation]

23. because he said he would.

that settles it; he is not a halfway kind of person. dollars to doughnuts he doesn't drop out EVER.

his message is so damn powerful these days, it is more important than his candidacy.

it's like Howard Zinn is on tour - it is so powerful that he is in this race and is getting even the faint media coverage he is getting.

if Obama loses, Obama supporters will NEVER go back and watch his old videos, no matter how "FIRED UP!" they felt at the time. HE SAYS JUST ABOUT NOTHING BUT "CHANGE ! THIS IS A HISTORIC MOMENT ! BLAH BLAH BLAH !"

if Edwards loses - which we do not concede - we'll go back and watch the man's speeches for GENERATIONS. and we will WIN SOMEDAY, especially if the massive negatives against Obama and Clinton plus Bloomberg plus vote fraud and whatever else scotch your dreams for the White House this fall. Clinton and Obama stand or fall THIS YEAR or they're THROUGH, in my opinion. We're in it for Edwards 2012, you guys just have this year, good luck, please convince us to fight for your candidate too if he/she wins or else we'll just show up and pull a lever, but i doubt most of the obamabots care. (clinton types seem to care a bit more about the positive influence of Edwards in the race, whether through innate comprehension or some kind of triangulation strategy).

threads like this make me want to puke, and you calling us delusional makes me feel SO MAD. :mad:

[cali]

34. Edwards should stay in through Super Tuesday

If he comes in third in virtually every state, it doesn't matter whether he stays in or drops out. Btw, I doubt anyone will be listening to his speech for generations. And frankly, I don't see the content that you do in that speech.

[terisan]

29. As long as he wants. We have one dictator, why be another.

[localroger]

48. He can have a strong impact on the platform

<b>Primaries are not winner-take-all</b>. Please repeat that until it sinks in. If Edwards shows up with 25% of the delegates, he can pretty much decide which of the 35% candidates will get the nomination. That means they will have to woo his delegates by paying serious attention to his concerns. In the primary campaign there is no danger of "splitting the vote" as in the general and giving the election to your enemy; if you get 49% of the vote you get 49% of the delegates for that state, and they go to the convention. This is, incidentally, the way the general elections are in most countries that aren't still running Democracy 0.9 BETA.

[yodermon]

55. Democracy 0.9 BETA

:rofl:
:toast:

[ieoeja]

61. Very good point! Maybe.

At that point his delegation would be competing against the super-delegates to influence the ultimate winner. Negative for Edwards is that the super-delegates could decide it on the first ballot depriving Edwards of a chance to have his delegates get behind someone else (they MUST vote for Edwards on the first ballot). On the positive side, the super-delegates are less likely to vote as a bloc as Edwards' delegates would.

[Maven]

7. I don't think Edwards would have wanted the endorsement

Not because Sen. Kerry's endorsement isn't valuable--it most certainly is--but because Edwards would not want to associate his current candidacy with the 2004 run.

I DO think it's a little awkward that Kerry made the endorsement in the first place with his old running mate in the race. It just seems a little...improper to me.

But one endorsement isn't going to make or break anybody's candidacy.

[Cha]

8. Who knows what Kerry is

thinking? Kerry endorsed who he wanted and John Edwards had a stellarlly gracious reply to Kerry's endorsement of Obama.

[LittleBlue]

11. I think it's possible he just likes Obama as a candidate

Unless he's been promised a top cabinet position, I don't know what he could hope to gain from this.

[Cha]

18. I don't think Kerry is doing for

gain..he loves his country and he's a patriot and shame on those people who are dissing him because he didn't support hillary.

[LittleBlue]

19. Yep!

Agreed. It's a shameful display. If he had supported Edwards I would have wondered at the wisdom of his choice. But I would have respected it, because it is his choice.

[JDPriestly]

15. I think that Kerry is a passive-aggressive back-stabber.

He has found in Obama a soul mate who is, like him, fearful of confrontation. Kerry saved his endorsement until he thought it would do Edwards the most harm, cause Edwards the most pain. I always knew that Kerry wasn't as direct and straightforward as I would have liked, but until this, I thought he was a pretty "nice" guy. As is often the case with people who fear confrontation, the "nice" guy is a jerk. No wonder he lost in 2004. It must have been awful for Edwards to have to run as the VP to Kerry. Kerry is not a gentleman.

[Cha]

16. You sound like you're full of venom

and sour grapes..kinda of explosive combination.

[JDPriestly]

27. So! I'm not running for office. And I am writing anonymously.

I have no obligation to be "nice." Besides, I'm feisty by nature. Middle child, you know.

[readmoreoften]

17. I agree. I like Elizabeth Edwards a lot and I'm going to take her word on it.

He must be an asshole. (And didn't Obama just talk trash about Kerry?)

[Adelante]

33. No, Obama did not talk trash about Kerry

Obama pointed out that the voting public was divided in two elections, 2000 and 2004, which is undeniable fact. Kerry obviously didn't twist that statement into a pretzel.

[karynnj]

69. I think you have just disparged EE - who to my knowledge did not describe Kerry thusly

[fuzzy otter pop]

25. it is sadly the ugly truth, i congradulate you on perciving it ....

Kerry is so, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww................

just look at Obama's face on stage, poor kid is creeped out, but he couldn't say no......

or could he?

[stickernation]

26. i can't believe i gave him money .

kerry's people keep calling me for more, and i now get to tell them off (although i will be nice to the actual this-is-just-my-job telemarketer).

[robbedvoter]

36. Kerry WON in 2004. Then they BOTH folded (or else one of them would have

done/said something - so at least voters KNEW what had happened)

[elleng]

39. Hey robbed!

I think it was Kerry who folded, and Edwards was pissed about it; saw that from Edw's body language.

[robbedvoter]

44. Body language or not, what has he done about it all these years?

Fighting elections fraud - not just a one second photo op - he should have championed the cause. That most people think Kerry lost - that part of it - is in big part THEIR responsibility - BOTH OF THEM. I'd surely take it up with Kerry too - had he asked for my vote again.

[elleng]

47. I agree,

but it seems that NO Dems want to face it.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elleng]

38. JDP, that's GOOD,

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Watched him do some passive stabbing in '04, and haven't liked him since.

[cali]

42. I think you're so bitter that it's causing you to project,

in a passive agressive manner, qualities onto Kerry and Obama that you have no way of knowing they possess. Due to this condition of yours, you neglect to note the facts. I can tell by observing your posts at DU that you have succumbed to campaign season rage fever- something that occurs in partisans whose candidate is falling below expectations.

See? Anyone can do the cheap, sleazy faux analysis that stinks up your post.

[Inuca]

53. Note to self

add to list of recent insane comments, close to the top of the list.

[karynnj]

68. Kerry is a gentleman

This is an endorsement of the candidate he thinks is best. I don't recall you commenting that Edwardses little jabs at the Kerrys said anything negative about them.

[PresidentObama]

20. I could have told you six months ago he wouldn't endorse Edwards.

[Double T]

21. obama isn't a done deal; no one should concede unless they have run out of money..........

or until every last primary has been run.

[LittleClarkie]

22. I hope he hangs on til the bitter end

For one thing, like Dennis, it give him a platform from which to speak about important things.

For another thing, if it chaps the butts of people like you, well, that's also a good thing.

I mean really, what is the point of posting such a thing when all it's gonna do is be flamebait.

[fuzzy otter pop]

24. can you add????? mathematical elmination for anyone is weeks away

but you want to get it over with quick so you can stop thinking and cheer


if you don't have something intelligent to say

stfu

the grown ups are electing a leader......

[terisan]

30. That was Cheney's line, Are you a Republican? Spare us the Il Duce arguments

[robbedvoter]

35. Objection! Il Duce is Giuliani. darth Vader is Cheney. Know your vilains.

:+

[Jim Sagle]

28. Kerry doesn't know shit and neither do you.

[Barack_America]

31. I don't like the expression, "finished"...

I think Edwards deserves more respect than that. But yes, he has had a very difficult week.

And Kerry, well, he probably realized that he stands more to gain if Obama is elected. You don't really think that a guy that has put in his dues to the Senate like Kerry has really thinks that Obama is more qualified than he is, do you? Nope. Kerry's getting something out of this. The question is, what?

[karynnj]

70. Kerry already made his choice not to run

Biden and Dodd were out. The choice was HRC, Obama and Edwards.

Read the speech. To me he explains well why he endorsed Obama. 1) Of the 3, Obama is the one who he's sees as being able to best heal the partisan rift. (Edwards is running on confrontation as a virtue and HRC is divisive.) 2) Kerry's foreign policy worldview is very focused on understanding and respecting other cultures - it was a part of what he spoke of in 1966 at Yale - Obama is closest to this.

[LTR]

32. Kerry's endorsement of Obama means...

...he likes him better than the others.

That's all.

I precicted he would. I'm not surprised. He's always been a fan of Obama.

People read way too much into this shit.

[emanymton]

37. It Ain't Over Until It Is Over! Let The People Vote And Count the Votes ...

.
before declaring a winner. A split decision is a clear decision. At the end of the process, let the people talk.

Edwards' messages are a positive and need to be heard by the 'power players' of the Democratic Party.
.

[depakid]

40. Wrong assumptions. Kerry and Edwards didn't part on good terms

and there's been no love lost between them ever since.

There's also been "friction" between the Kerry and Clinton camps, and Hillary didn't improve matter for slamming him over his "bad joke" in 2006.

That left Obama as the remaining choice.

Simple as that.

[pnorman]

41. I read earlier on DU, that Bil Clinton had LOST in IA & NH in 1992!

I haven't verified it yet by web-search yet, but it sounds about right. And like many others here on DU, I'm very suspicious of what seems to be a major effort to collapse the entire nominating process into the outcome of just TWO fairly small states. "Cui Bono"? Dieboldt? Karl Rove?

pnorman

[robbedvoter]

45. The 2 small states ruled over us way before Diebold. if anything, the primaries

are now closer to each other - so the 2 small states count a bit less.
Some would argue that the 2 states allow for "retail politics" - with the rest it's only TV commercials, basically (big money)
I say - one day for all primaries.
And yes, Clinton came 2nd in NH - with a significant number, and had his first win in Georgia.

[pnorman]

50. Admittedly, I hadn't followed that sliver of the entire nominating proces too closely,

until now. But my gut feeling is that the 'effect" is FAR more pronounced now! Less than two weeks into the New Year, and it seems to be narrowed down to just TWO candidates! Those "smoke-filled back-rooms of old, would be a lot closer to "participatory democracy" than this! So again, I ask" "Cui Bono?"

pnorman

[pnorman]

65. This article by John Dean (just now spotted elsewhere on DU),

explains pretty clearly what I had dimly sensed what was "wrong" with the system: http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12074

pnorman

[Darth_Kitten]

43. maybe stick around DU a tad longer........

and then you could judge who is in it for the long haul. Oh, by the way, your posting isn't helpful. Just thought I would mention that.

[last_texas_dem]

46. How do you know Kerry would have held his endorsement

for that reason? Because you're "sure"? Truth is, no one really knows that but John Kerry. Perhaps he endorsed Obama because he thinks he would make the strongest candidate and did it right now because Clinton just won a primary that the polls were predicting Obama to win and he wanted to help Obama receive some media coverage.

Edwards should withdraw when his support or his money to continue running a campaign dries up. Why all the pressure from (predominately) Obama supporters? I still haven't seen any evidence that Edwards's withdrawal from the race would give Obama a boost. Perhaps it would actually hurt Obama's numbers.

[ColesCountyDem]

49. I think Edwards is in it to stay, just like he said.

Whether or not he gets the nomination, he will have quite possibly have enough delegates to get a substantial say in the platform, and possibly have enough to play king maker, should Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama neither one have enough delegates to secure the nomination on the first ballot. Frankly, I see Sen. Edwards gaining nothing by withdrawing, and potentially gaining a great deal by remaining in the running until the convention.

[Triana]

51. So - you can read Kerry's mind and you know his thoughts?

Interesting projecting there.

You don't know what Kerry knows.
You don't know what Kerry thinks.

You do know what YOU think - and that's what your post is about. Projecting your own opinion onto Kerry or anyone else doesn't make it anything else - except still - your opinion.

Most sentences that start with "Even so-and-so knows/does/thinks...." are usually a person projecting their own opinions onto someone else they deem more authoritative or credible in order to manipulate others into agreeing with them.

Why not just say what you think and let go of being concerned with whether anyone agrees with you or not?

[earth mom]

54. Give me a f*cking break. This is the biggest load I've seen on DU to date.

:puke:

[BlueJac]

57. Kerry had no guts for the fight....

He simply gave up on Ohio. He is a shameful more of the same kind of guy.

[fuzzy otter pop]

58. peas in POD

rich ivy league guy endorses rich ivy league guy

says

"serving as a politician in Illinois senate is more important that making money in the private sector"

mr kerry

spoken like a man who had no student loans

and never had to worry about
feeding or housing his own
parents

ok
sure doing a bunch of random crap in some state house has its place

but poor folk need money to survive

not lectures about how they should have just gone strait into politics
from college

yes mr kerry

i will let my mom eat cat food

so i can go put my name on
a meaningless piece of legislation

that would have passed anyway

mr kerry
has never had to worry about money
or
taking care of anyone
but himself
his entire life

public service is easy for you
if your family has already helped itself
to a huge pile of cash

you are now free
to be
"selfless"

and attack someone

who had get their own money

to take care their own family

as selfish and greedy

yep
with 100,000k in loans

and as the first college graduate in my immediate family

when i graduate law school

i am going to run for city council to save the world and stoke my ego......

or wait
should I try to make money?

but if i do
does that make me selfish and greedy?

listen to Kerry
listen to his words

what is he really saying?

where does medical care and education fit in?

what is happening in Darfur(sp?) sucks

but

if this nation cant help black folks in New Orleans

what do we offer those in Africa
but platitudes and false hope?

lets at least try to rebuild new Orleans

before we play god
and try
to clean up a mess that was created by colonial empires in Africa
a 100 years ago

because people,
if we cant do the "easy" stuff
like care for our own poor people

(who are (for now)
better off than most of Africa)

then
how are we going to save whole nations

that most folks
including rich people
cant even find on a map

save Africa, bring peace to the middle east

i am all for it

but first

just try to save New Orleans
or bring peace to east saint Louis

please
just try it
FIRST

after all these places should be "easier" right?

but if it "cant be done"
just like universal health care "cant be done"
(except in every other wealthy nation on earth)

then you really cant save Africa or the middle east
either

and therefore

this is just rich people
feeling good about themselves
at a safe distance

see if you blow it in Nigeria or Palestine
you can walk away and say

"i tried"

but if you blow it in Chicago or Boston

we can all see it
and that makes you a "failure"

if all that matters to you is your own ego

if you are rich or from a rich family
HOW
you do shit is IMPORTANT

because you have all these options>>>>

but if you are poor or from a poor family

you help who you can
when you can
how ever you can

while you simultaneously
must
take care of
your family
and
yourself
because
with out
you
their all f$(%&ed

ask mr kerry how he does it
without a shit load of cash

when he just stares at you blankly

ask him where he got his cash
and
ask him
if anyone in his family is on welfare

ditto for mister Obama

it is good thing there are no poor folks left in America for Kerry to help

it frees him up to go to far away places
and get his ass kissed on the cheap and consequence free tip

i am so happy for us all

we really need a president to spend the next four to eight years
wasting money and time
over seas
so he can feel good about himself
while
neglecting this county

we have not had enough of that.

[ieoeja]

59. Why do people make posts like this?

You see someone's pet get run over by a car, do you immediately say, "well, you shouldn't have let the pet run free"?

[venable]

60. your use of the word "Even" suggests you've not followed the party recently

or you would know that Kerry needed to re-establish himself in a post Kerry/Edwards world.

and, by the way, Edwards is far, far from finished, thank goodness.

[fenriswolf]

62. despite your condecending tone

and your overall air of know it all superiority you should know edwards has enough of a following to play king maker, he is going to ride this all the way to the convention where if he doesnt win he will most likely decide who is going to be king.

[redqueen]

63. I'm just going to start hiding these fucking annoying-as-hell "edwards should concede" BS threads.

:puke:

[midnight]

64. Hey what did Kerry do with all that money he said he needed to

challege the vote in 2004? He did say he was going to fight right? Then he walked away. Now I'm a bit more skepticle about what the senator even knows.

[polichick]

66. Whether he stays in or not, Edwards has changed the discussion...

Now both Obama and Clinton talk about taking on entrenched corporate interests.
<><><>

GET OUT THE VOTE! http://www.cafepress.com/powerboutique

[fadedrose]

67. Should concede at convention if he doesn't get the delegates to win

[Generator]

71. You know what's fascinating?

From all I read about John Edwards from Hillary and Obama supporters, from the highly respectable DLC, from the highly mainstream media, is that the number one problem with America right now is JOHN EDWARDS!

Now, why would that be? I smell some damn stinky fish about now.

Can people make it more obvious that this election is a bunch of pandering in the name of zero? Nothing is going to change with Hillary or Obama-because the number one thing the media and the DLC fear is any change with the war games.

I am not that stupid. Maybe America is-but I am not going to congratulate them for stupidity.

Who's afraid of John Edwards?