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Neoconservative Robert Kagan also gives Obama a big thumbs up.

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:42 PM
Original message
Neoconservative Robert Kagan also gives Obama a big thumbs up.
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 08:46 PM by readmoreoften
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Nothing says change like "neoconservative". Are these the folks we're reaching across the aisle to?

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1241


edited to add rightweb link


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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some Neo-cons are glad-handing Obama for one and only one reason--
--they're scared of looking racist.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. If Obama said this, then he would be a naturally sympathetic candidate for them.
I'm just as put off by Obama's rhetoric on these pages as Kagan's endorsement. I don't want more war and militarism. Why would neoconservatives be afraid of looking racist? Why? Because they're not endorsing the not-conservative black man? That makes no sense. Furthermore, these are people with not a damn thing in the world to fear.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Founding neocon Irving Kristol...
...actively supported the Civil Rights movement. That's what made them neocons.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. SOME discussion here also:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not a good sign
Excerpt:

America must "lead the world in battling immediate evils and promoting the ultimate good." With those words, Barack Obama put an end to the idea that the alleged overexuberant idealism and America-centric hubris of the past six years is about to give way to a new realism, a more limited and modest view of American interests, capabilities and responsibilities.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Obama is not anti war
he's merely anti the Iraq war vote though he votes to fund it
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sorry, but the idea that repukes and neocons are coming out
in support of Sen. Obama still scares the hell out of me......

I won't be comfortable with Sen. Obama until he's been fully vetted by the press.
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debatepro Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. well don't forget they are coming out against him to... like rove today
and this was in April of last year... its not like kagan is making this argument anytime in the last 6 months... read the article and thing about things before you make these kinds of statements.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Yeah, uh, I did read the article. It's pretty damning.
What on earth was the fact that it was written 8 months ago have to do with anything? Is Obama a radically different candidate than he was 8 months ago? Where is the renunciation of these ideas then?
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. They just like seeing Hillary struggle
I think Edwards would get the same types of endorsements if he were in Obama's place. FWIW
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yeah, I doubt that. Edwards has no rhetoric that would appeal to them.
Whether or not Edwards would cave in to them or whether he "really believes what he says" there is NOTHING appealing to them in his current positions. Which is possibly why you don't hear much about him.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I don't think neoconservatives will typically flock to a black man with a Muslim name
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 09:05 PM by LittleBlue
who has sympathies for 3rd world people.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. They have "sympathies for 3rd world people too." They don't think of themselves as racist.
They think they're doing brown folks a favor by importing our free market ideology. Neoconservatives are not racists: please! know thy enemy.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I believe neoconservative ideology is inherently imperialist.
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 09:23 PM by LittleBlue
I certainly think elements of racism can be found in imperialism.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. "Neoconservatives are not racists"
:eyes:
The hangover from the :tinfoilhat:bama koolade will be the worst since Jonestown.



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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. THEN I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA
ANYTHING OF THE NEOCONS STINKS
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debatepro Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Answers to Kagan
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 09:06 PM by debatepro
This is a classic example of DON'T BE LAZY... read the DAMN article.

Read the article it is almost IRONIC that every example he uses shows Obama is a student of Softpower not hardpower.

Kagan's quotes contradict his thesis which is Obama is an Interventionist all over the place.
All right, you're thinking, but at least he wants us to lead by example, not by meddling everywhere and trying to transform the world in America's image.

This is classic softpower rhetoric not neocon interventionism.
There is more to building democracy than "deposing a dictator and setting up a ballot box." We must build societies with "a strong legislature, an independent judiciary, the rule of law, a vibrant civil society, a free press, and an honest police force."

That is totally a neocon argument...LOL
Okay, you say, but at least Obama is proposing all this Peace Corps-like activity as a substitute for military power.

Kagan says:
Obama never once says that military force should be used only as a last resort. Rather, he insists that "no president should ever hesitate to use force -- unilaterally if necessary," not only "to protect ourselves . . . when we are attacked," but also to protect "our vital interests" when they are "imminently threatened." That's known as preemptive military action. It won't reassure those around the world who worry about letting an American president decide what a "vital interest" is and when it is "imminently threatened."

1. If you think Obama doesn't think that military force is indeed a last resort then you probably can't be convinced.
2. Neocons and Students of Softpower (Obama) see Imminent Threats differently. For neocons/hardcore realist imminent threat is anything you can manufacture (Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq, boats in Iran, etc)
3. Also here is a link to the speech Obama gave at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs that Kagan is pulling his quotes from. Find "imminently threatened" in that speech.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051122-moving_forward/in...

YOU WONT!!! - Kagan Cherry picks then... uses his own warped view of the world and puts it on Obama.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. What about Ned Lamont, John Kerry, George Miller, the SEIU, the CWU...
Neo-cons too?
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Tweety Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Message to all neo-cons.
FUCK OFF!

I want Obama.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. They want him too. They agree with you. You're not getting it.
They like Obama's policy. Here's a clip from Kagan's column:

<>

Actually, Obama wants to increase defense spending. He wants to add 65,000 troops to the Army and recruit 27,000 more Marines. Why? To fight terrorism.

He wants the American military to "stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar," and he believes that "the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face." He wants to ensure that we continue to have "the strongest, best-equipped military in the world."

Obama never once says that military force should be used only as a last resort. Rather, he insists that "no president should ever hesitate to use force -- unilaterally if necessary," not only "to protect ourselves . . . when we are attacked," but also to protect "our vital interests" when they are "imminently threatened." That's known as preemptive military action. It won't reassure those around the world who worry about letting an American president decide what a "vital interest" is and when it is "imminently threatened."

Nor will they be comforted to hear that "when we use force in situations other than self-defense, we should make every effort to garner the clear support and participation of others." Make every effort?

Conspicuously absent from Obama's discussion of the use of force are four words: United Nations Security Council.

<>

You do know what a 'vital interest' is, right? Generally, big corporations or things they can profit off of.
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Hilary wont be better and I'm afraid neither Edwards. The Military Industrial
complex is to big. We should have listened to IKE. He said to beware of the Military Industrial Complex.... If you read I think the only person touting to decrease military funding is Dennis Kucinich and the Ice Cream guy from Ben and Jerry's.... I'm still pulling for a Edwards/Obama ticket though....

If John suffers a loss in South Carolina Obama should offer him the AG job and get him to campaign with him!
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debatepro Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Try answering my argument
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 10:36 PM by debatepro
People are posting this like over 3 three time over and over... why? It's from last April for crying out loud... this isn't some new piece of information... they are implicately saying be wary of Obama... neocon's like his foreign policy.

Obama never once says that military force should be used only as a last resort. Rather, he insists that "no president should ever hesitate to use force -- unilaterally if necessary," not only "to protect ourselves . . . when we are attacked," but also to protect "our vital interests" when they are "imminently threatened."

If you go by this logic Obama never said he believed in Pre-emptive war either. There were lots of things missing from Obama's speech like IMMINENTLY THREATENED!!! and PRE-EMPTIVE war!!! Where does Kagan get this crap from. In any event I make 3 arguments against this line of thinking which you have NO answer to...

1. If you think Obama doesn't think that military force is indeed a last resort then you probably can't be convinced.
2. Neocons and Students of Softpower (Obama) see Imminent Threats differently. For neocons/hardcore realist imminent threat is anything you can manufacture (Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq, speed boats in Iran, etc). FYI: Clinton and Edwards think the same thing... we all just have a different view of what is an imminent threat... at least in Obama's case he HAD THE JUDGMENT AND UNDERSTANDING TO KNOW THAT IRAQ WASN'T an IMMINENT THREAT. Can we say that about the other candidates?
3. Also here is a link to the speech Obama gave at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs that Kagan is pulling his quotes from. Find "imminently threatened" in that speech.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051122-moving_forward/in...

Like i already said... Kagan cherry picks, then appropriates neocon definitions of threats and views of the world and then applies them to Obama. The only difference is that everyone on the planet knows that Cheney and Obama have a different definition of Imminent threat... heck look at Iraq ... Obama has a more credibility evaluating Iraq's as an imminent threat than Clinton or Edwards. (Thats Mate)



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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. They want Obama as the Democratic candidate
The Clinton's have beat them before and since BBV and other shenanigans will be watched for, the easiest way to fix the election is to figure out a way to draw the weakest opponent possible, even unelectable. On one hand you have Team Clinton with 8 state and national election victories behind them, vast intimate knowledge of the nation and the only Democrats to win on the national level in 30 years vs a first term Senator who beat Alan Keyes for his seat and who has an Islamic name that sounds like two of our most vilified recent terrorist enemies.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Wow! Some perspective.
Never looked at this way.
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. BS Hillary has the highest negatives and could lose to Rudy or McCain.
Edwards beats both with ease...
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. According to the polls?
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