Obama is a lightweight in the same way that

[cali]

another politician from Illinois was a lightweight- Adlai Stevenson. Adlai was a one term governor when he ran against DDE. Like Obama, he was a brilliant man with a masterful use of language. Like Obama, he attended Harvard Law. Unlike Obama who graduated Magna Cum Laude, Stevenson dropped out, getting his law degree later from Northwestern.

Stevenson had worked in Government has a speechwriter and special asst at State, and for the Preparatory Commision of the UN. He served on term as Governor of Illinois. He had no more experience than Obama. A light weight? Not hardly.

The Empty suit light weight appelation is contemptible because it's demonstrably false. It's political slime. Nothing more.

Obama has more experience than John Edwards in government and community service. He does not have as much as Clinton, let alone Bill Richardson, but he's certainly not without experience.

Adlai Stevenson never won the Presidency, and I suspect it's to the great loss of this country that he didn't. Unlike Stevenson, Obama will not be running against a great American hero, and thus stands a very good chance of winning.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. If it's Obama vs. McCain

it will not be false. In fact, it will be the whole campaign.

[Colobo]

2. Obama will win the GE like Adlai never did.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. "All the smart people in the country are behind you, Mr. Stevenson"

a woman once told him.

"Yes, dear," he said. "But we need a majority."

:rofl:

[no name no slogan]

4. Let's just hope that, unlike Adlai, he wins the presidency

if he's the nominee.

[SaveElmer]

5. Electorally speaking only...Obama will either be the next Adlai Stevenson or Abraham Lincoln...

He has parallels to both...

[Ninga]

6. John Edwards has produced more real life results in the 20 years he fought for

average Americans than any other candidate.

Experience is only a line item on a resume........the only real time results that matter are the victories Edwards won in battle against big corporations.

[cali]

7. baloney. PRovide any evidence that what he did made systamtic

change. There are lots of trial lawyers that made big bucks suing corporations. Few cases have resulted in change that benefitted people on a societal level. It's actually sad to see people trying to compare Edwards pre-Senate background with Obama's. Obama worked for years in the inner city as a community organizer and then as an attny who advocated for the disenfranchised. Obama fought poverty. Edwards did not. And Obama has far more experience than Edwards.

[Ninga]

8. Resume line items. What were his results?

Edwards won legal decisions for the people he fought for, real tangible results.

And he won the legal decisions for the small guy, not big corporations.

Obama is a nice guy. We need more than a nice guy.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Those aren't systematic change. He just won a few hunks of money, took his share, and moved on.

That ain't change. There are thousands of trial lawyers who do that.

[Ninga]

15. Can't you read???

[Occam Bandage]

18. Yes. That's what happened. Edwards won some money, took his share, and moved on. No change,

no systematic change, was ever won, nor did he ever attempt to win that. He only ever attempted to win his client money (and take his share of the pie).

Obama worked for change in the South Side at a salary of $12,000/yr, while Edwards was simply making himself millions of dollars.

[Ninga]

16. Can't you read???

[cali]

11. Obama toiled in the trenches for years instead of going for the

big pay day. And that says it all when you compare the two.

[Ninga]

12. You are very good at re-framing. I never claimed Edwards made systemic change.

Obama was a no-show at the podium when it came to marshaling the American people to support filibuster against Roberts and Alito.

Where was the big speech then? Where was his face time at podium, talking directly to the American people then.

Give me an f*ing break.

The real deal is lacking in substance.

[cali]

14. Sour grapes

from someone supporting the biggest change artist in the race. Who the fuck knows what Mr. Hedge Fund believes?

[Ninga]

21. Losing our temper are we? Say what you will. But you still haven't put up results.

I have belonged to plenty of organizations that did nothing but spin it's wheels.

And you are a wonderful wheel spinner.

I can write an impressive resume if I include every organization I ever belonged to using such words as
:advocated:
:organized:
:Planned:
:wrote:

The meat of a resume is found in the words: ACCOMPLISHED....DELIVERED......WON

[Occam Bandage]

23. It's a pity that Americans look for more in a President than how good they are

at making themselves money. Otherwise, Edwards would certainly be a contender.

[Ninga]

27. Re-framing our debate are we? I don't begrudge Edwards one dime won, nor

does his clients. Why would you? Are you saying he didn't work hard? Are you saying he didn't work smart? Are you saying it doesn't matter to you that he won?

Why is the fact that a small firm attorney worked hard enough and smart enough to beat big corporations at their game, is lost on the like of you, makes me wonder why you could give too hoots about the average joe who found an advocate who won in their behalf.

People at the bottom of the economic ladder have been waiting for "nice" to work for them.

Maybe you only care about the people that your candidate advocated for....maybe you are a big believer in the "Two Americas" and would like it to stay that way.

Maybe you are saying that the people your candidate advocated for are more deserving, than the people Edwards won in behalf of....

Do you even know what you are saying???

[Occam Bandage]

31. Edwards did work hard and smart. But only when there were millions in it for him.

I note that none of his "coups" were done pro bono, despite the fact that he could certainly afford such work. No, Edwards was only willing to fight for the little guy when there were millions of dollars in it for him. The fact that Edwards fought for millions while Barack fought below the poverty line--that's all I need to know about the character of the two men.

[cali]

33. It's that Obama actually did something..

And no, pookie, it's not resume inflation. Obama worked for the disenfranchised for years. JE? Not so much. Obama? Excellent record in two legislative bodies. EdWARds: War, Yucca Mountain, China trade, bankruptcy bill and much more. Why vote for someone with judgment that poor?

[Ninga]

35. Accomplishments are tremendously important. And Senator Obama voted to continue

funding for the war.....he is not without his baggage.

But my debate with you is nuanced. I want a POTUS who understands when to be nice and when to fight.

Edwards background is replete with fight, and meticulous trial preparation.

Absent from your dismissal of Edwards accomplishments is the fact of what it takes to "win" a case.

You completely dismiss and refuse to acknowledge that any case he lost, he didn't get paid for.. pro bono?

[Occam Bandage]

19. Obama was a community advocate making $12,000/yr while Edwards went for the big bucks.

One candidate here is indeed lacking in substance.

[Occam Bandage]

9. Yes, while Obama was selfishly advocating for the poor, Edwards was selflessly

winning himself multimillion-dollar shares of settlements.

[lazer47]

13. What does Obama know about poor???

[Occam Bandage]

17. You may find this article interesting.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070826/3obama.htm

CHICAGO—Far from the centers of power and privilege that have spawned so many commanders in chief, it's an unlikely place to incubate a future president. But the seemingly endless clumps of drab brick apartment buildings and patchy lawns on Chicago's South Side are where Sen. Barack Obama learned some of his most enduring lessons about politics, leadership, and the paths to social change. His experiences here, in fact, amount to a Rosetta stone that reveals the essence of the man who has catapulted out of nowhere into contention for the Democratic presidential nomination for 2008.

As a community organizer in the Altgeld Gardens public housing project in the mid-1980s, Obama, then 23, quickly emerged as a tireless and pragmatic advocate for the community—traits that characterize the kind of president he says he wants to be. "His work as a community organizer was really a defining moment in his life, not just his career," his wife, Michelle, told U.S. News. It helped him decide "how he would impact the world"—assisting people in defining their mutual interests and working together to improve their lives.

[lazer47]

20. Riddle me this,,, How does a poor person go to Harvard Law School??

[Occam Bandage]

22. And riddle me this: Why does a graduate of Harvard Law School choose

to go to the poorest area of a major city and become a civil-rights lawyer, knowing there's no money in it for him? Why does a bright, talented kid decide that, instead of going directly to law school and making his Edwards-sized fortune, he will spend years advocating for one of the most destitute, disenfranchised communities in America, with a salary that puts him under the poverty line?

[lazer47]

24. Duh??? May perhaps he had political ambitions??

and I am sure he lived in a run down neighborhood while he did all this wonderful, selfless work,
you might ought to do a little research yourself,,IMHO

[Occam Bandage]

30. This reminds me of the swiftboating of Kerry at this point. "Yeah, he did all that

selfless, heroic stuff, for years. But I bet he did it because he thought it might be useful if he decided to run for President in a few decades!"

And yeah, he did live in a run-down area of Hyde Park--which, outside the UChicago campus, is a wasteland. Dude couldn't even afford a car; he had to beg his employer for a $2000 stipend (on top of his $10,000 salary) so he could afford one.

[lazer47]

32. I don't swiftboat,,, You are the one who was swiftboating Edwards

I am just leveling the playing field you started..

[Occam Bandage]

34. You seem unaware of the meaning of the term.

Swiftboating is not "Barack Obama's record of community service far outstrips that of John Edwards."

Swiftboating is "I bet Obama doesn't know anything about poverty. Well, I bet he didn't live in a poor neighborhood. Well, um, I bet he only dedicated decades of his life to serving the poor with little financial compensation because he wanted to be President in a few decades."

[cali]

29. ever hear

of student loans?

[cali]

26. He wored for years as a community organizer

in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country. He then went to Harvard Law and upon graduating returned to Chicago and practice law; doing voter discrimination cases, housing cases and representing the disenfranchised. Think he could have learned something about poverty over those years?

[BenDavid]

25. One thing to remember: HRC's the only candidate who has had

to fight the GOP,and the back stabbing Democrats and the press and the bloggers and that's a lot of fighting. Bush's mediawhores couldn't love Obama more if he was for tax cuts for the super-rich and that is, until he wins the nomination and THEN it's Obama's turn to fight the mediawhore press. Young people see Obama as a breath of fresh air, but is that what we need? Are Democrats really going to bet the future of the planet on a new guy about whom we know less than Kerry?

It's possible Obama could win and be a good president,but right now he's a question mark with a laid-back style and a wide ass smile.
I wish Obama could do something to signal that he can slay the Slime Dragon.Obama's wrong if he thinks the GOP will play fair.The Bible says, "To everything, there is a season."Is this the season for a question mark with a laid-back style and wide ass smile?

[Cha]

28. And Adlai Stevenson said..

"If the Republicans stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them." ...

They musta been liars even back then.

Does anyone know where his first name came from?

[rockymountaindem]

36. If we were running against the victor of WWII, that would worry me

But none of the current Republican candidates deserve to be in the same room (figuratively) as Eisenhower, so I'm not sure this is a relevant comparison.