Can you blame young people for supporting Obama? Their friends are dieing in Iraq.

[Renew Deal]

I got this from Jefferson Dem's post. Look at this picture.



These people are young! (Though they look older in this video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT0_DwKf-xg&eurl

Can you blame all these young people for supporting Barack. Hillary, Edwards, the republicans, and other got them into Iraq. Their friends are dieing or getting injured every single day. There's 3,910 dead american soldiers right now. There's another 38,876 injured. That means that many young people know somebody dead or injured in Iraq. So can you really blame them for supporting someone that opposed the war from the start? I can't.

http://icasualties.org/oif

[LisaM]

1. So why don't they support Kucinich, then? He actually voted NO

to the war. It's easy for Senator Obama to say he wouldn't have voted for it. He wasn't in the Senate at the time. Kucinich has stood strong.

[Renew Deal]

2. Obama is probably more of a total package than Kucinich

He can win.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. He's a package alright!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Because Kucinich told them to vote for Obama if he's not viable.

:shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

9. Because they want to see an anti-war voice who can actually be elected.

Kucinich gets murdered in head-to-heads (by 10-20 points each time), has the worst net favorability of any candidate in either party, and has the worst vote for/against split of any candidate in any party. Plus, he only has 1% of the Dem vote at the moment.

A vote for DK is a waste of a primary vote. A DK nomination is a surefire President Romney/Giuliani/McCain.

[sendero]

16. BECAUSE..

.... HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE OF BEING ELECTED AND NEVER WILL.

God DAMN I'm tired of hearing this shit. I agree with DK on almost everything, but you have to get a base of support to build on and HE DOESN'T HAVE IT.

[fujiyama]

32. Because Kucinich has not demonstrated the ability to win a statewide race

and even still, his speaking style is not terribly inspirational, though much of what he says may be right.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Do they know how he votes on Iraq war funding?

As a candidate for his Senate seat in 2003 and 2004, Obama said repeatedly that he would have voted against an $87 billion war budget that had been requested by President Bush.

"When I was asked, 'Would I have voted for the $87 billion,' I said 'no,' " Obama said in a speech before a Democratic community group in suburban Chicago in November 2003. "I said 'no' unequivocally because, at a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush. If we keep on getting steamrolled, we're not going to stand a chance."

Yet Obama has voted for all of the president's war funding requests since coming to the Senate, and is poised to vote in favor of the latest request when it comes to the Senate floor this spring. Liberal groups have demanded that lawmakers cut off funds for the war as a way to force its end, but Obama has joined most Democrats in the House and Senate in saying he would not take such a move.

[K Gardner]

12. Maybe he's voting for the same reason Biden did.. to fund the purchase of

equipment and vehicles that would prevent 73% of the casualties and injuries from IEDs. Do some research on that subject.

[The_Casual_Observer]

17. Campaigned with the promise of voting no. Who cares why

he votes yes?

[maximusveritas]

28. He did not campaign on that promise

Do you have any evidence or are you just repeating Clinton talking points?

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. Again

As a candidate for his Senate seat in 2003 and 2004, Obama said repeatedly that he would have voted against an $87 billion war budget that had been requested by President Bush.

"When I was asked, 'Would I have voted for the $87 billion,' I said 'no,' " Obama said in a speech before a Democratic community group in suburban Chicago in November 2003. "I said 'no' unequivocally because, at a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush. If we keep on getting steamrolled, we're not going to stand a chance."

Yet Obama has voted for all of the president's war funding requests since coming to the Senate, and is poised to vote in favor of the latest request when it comes to the Senate floor this spring. Liberal groups have demanded that lawmakers cut off funds for the war as a way to force its end, but Obama has joined most Democrats in the House and Senate in saying he would not take such a move.

[maximusveritas]

31. That's not evidence for you claim

He said he would vote against the 87 billion, just as Kerry, Edwards, and others did. He never said he would vote against all funding.
In fact, Kerry and every other Senator who voted against that 87 billions has voted for funding exactly as Obama has since then.
Have they also flip-flopped?

[The_Casual_Observer]

33. Pardon me, but FUCK THAT!

[maximusveritas]

35. Is that your response when confronted with information that challenges your view

Seriously, what is that supposed to mean?

[The_Casual_Observer]

36. & fuck that too. It's bullshit transparent ass kiss nuance. He fucking

said one thing & did something else. That's all there is to it.

Is this what an Obama era is all about?

[maximusveritas]

37. Nuance? LOL. Isn't that how they attacked Kerry?

Sorry if you are unable to sort out these nuances, but they are often very important. While they may seem like unimportant differences to an uninformed observer, they are very important to people who do pay attention to the nuances.

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. pfffft

You think this is bad, wait till the gop gets their hands on that guy. You won't be there to protect his ass.

[MagickMuffin]

19. Yet time and time again the funds for the purchase of equipment never GETS to the troops

Whenever there is a vote for more funds, it is always for the troops. Yes. No. That money goes to Blackwater, Halliburton, and other contractors. It ISN'T going to the troops.

[stillcool]

5. it's the voice...

it's the words..it's the feeling..I don't know why so many here do not understand where inspiration comes from. It is not what you get, it's what gets you. It's the spark that lights the fire. It's being touched by words, by music, by art. It's the soul.

[MichiganVote]

14. Its the beer you'd drink with him? Sorry, I'm undecided but even I recognize

that this glorifying of any one candidate looks and sounds like the * campaigns of 2000 and 2004.

I just can't go there.

[stillcool]

24. I'm really sorry that you don't understand...

.. it has nothing to do with 'glorifying' anyone....nor does it have anything to do with having a beer with someone...My God..how shallow. I'm not talking about an election...I'm talking about inspiration. Obama may not be the best candidate..or the winning candidate..but he is a gifted speaker..who inspires.

Quintilian (95 CE)
I cannot imagine how the founders of cities would have made a homeless multitude come together to form a people, had they not moved them by their skilful speech, or how legislators would have succeeded in restraining mankind in the servitude of the law had they not had the highest gifts of oratory. The very guiding principles of life, however intrinsically honourable they are, nevertheless possess more power to shape men’s minds when the brilliance of eloquence illumines the beauty of the subject. And so, although the weapons of eloquence are powerful for good or ill, it is unfair to count as evil something which it is possible to use for good.
Source: Quintilian, The Orator’s Education. Ed. and trans. Donald A. Russell. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 2001. II.xvi.9-10


Ralph Waldo Emerson (1837)
The poet, in utter solitude remembering his spontaneous thoughts and recording them, is found to have recorded that which men in crowded cities find true for them also. The orator distrusts at first the fitness of his frank confessions,—his want of knowledge of the persons he addresses,—until he finds that he is the complement of his hearers; that they drink his words because he fulfils for them their own nature; the deeper he dives into his privatest, secretest presentiment, to his wonder he finds this is the most acceptable, most public, and universally true. The people delight in it; the better part of every man feels, This is my music; this is myself.
Source: Ralph Waldo Emerson, “The American Scholar.” Nature, Addresses, and Lectures. Cambridge, MA: Belknap, 1971. Vol. 1 of The Collected Works of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ed. Joseph Slater, et al. 6 vols. to date. 1971-. 63.
http://www.u.arizona.edu/%7Etkinney/pdf/ha...

"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."
-- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

"Democracy is no easy form of government. Few nations have been able to sustain it. For it requires that we take the chances of freedom; that the liberating play of reason be brought to bear on events filled with passion; that dissent be allowed to make its appeal for acceptance; that men chance error in their search for the truth."-- Robert F. Kennedy

"What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."-- Robert F. Kennedy

"Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movements and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us." --- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

"The law may not be able to make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me."
-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
"I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality .... I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word."
-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

“The future will not belong to those who sit on the sidelines. The
future will not belong to the cynics. The future belongs to those who
believe in the beauty of their dreams.”---Paul Wellstone

[MichiganVote]

42. See that's just it....I do understand and you or others can't accept it.

[stillcool]

44. After your trite use

...of 'having a beer'..and "glorifying" a candidate...you come back with what? I do understand? What do you understand? I'm not advocating a candidate!!! I'm describing "Inspiration"! Do you even read, before you post? Never mind. Please...please...Ignore.

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Have you got soul Officer Kilvinski ?

"Honey , I got more soul than I con-trol"

[stillcool]

27. I don't understand...

explain?

[Cha]

40. I understand that it's

unfathomable.. some have it and some don't. We're gonna see!

[terisan]

7. Obama has voted FOR the war since he got to the Senate. He is no longer opposed to the war.

[pocoloco]

8. Barack, Hillary, Edwards??

Two out of three voted for the war and the other said he probably would have.

Better make a note of their boot size, it's a "Long Road Out Of Eden"!

[BenDavid]

10. So here again it boils down to the iraq war vote. Right? Well,

take away the vote that Obama couldn't cast on Iraq (because he wasn't even in the game when the war started) and what are their differences? Gene Lyons recently wrote that Obama's voting record is (my memory)"remarkably similar" to Hillary's so what outrages the Left so much about her?

Here again, if Al Qaeda had killed 3,000 Chicagoans in the Sears Tower,Obama would've led the charge to "fight terror," whatever that means. If he didn't, he'd be the former senator from Illinois.

[MagickMuffin]

11. Too bad Obama isn't going to bring the troops home for sixteen months AFTER he's elected

So, I guess there will still be kids dying in Iraq.

[Andy823]

13. Yes, but when will Obama

Have them out of Iraq? What makes you think he will get them out any faster than the other two?

Young people support him because of his "rock star" quality. Sadly that is not much of a qualification if you ask me!

[MagickMuffin]

22. See post 11

He said 16 months AFTER taking office.

Just in time for mid-term elections. How many Dems will we lose because of this strategy???

[Andy823]

30. Thanks

This is the kind of stuff that really puzzles me. How can his supporters make claims about him, when the facts show otherwise? This kind of thing really scares me. It's all "hype" and no substance with Obama, and when the facts "are" brought out, his supporters get pisssed because someone brought up something "negative" against him. Well what do they think will hapen to him in a general election, do they think the repugs will not bring up all this crap, or do they think they can simple BS their way through that election also? :eyes:

[MagickMuffin]

38. I find it puzzling as well

I haven't found anything that makes me want to vote for him. And his supporters here aren't helping their candidate.

I'm still trying to determine who I will vote for, as it stands right now Edwards, Clinton, Obama. In that order.

But I haven't decided 100% yet.

Oh by the way Obama didn't vote for the IWR:rofl: because he wasn't a US Senator at the time. Kinda moot point, IMHO.

And again 16 months before he does anything about Iraq and bringing the Troops HOME.

[niceypoo]

15. This explains why they fall for hollow slogans...

And promises with no substance to back them. They aren't old enough to know that calling for unity with republicans is nothing but meaningless drivel. Any semi-experienced adult knows that there is no, 'unity' with these people. You won't find togetherness with a growling, snarling, salivating pack of hyenas, it ain't gonna happen. But these kids are impressionable and don't know any better and will stand in a circle singing kumbaya outside the polls. If Obama wins the nod from democrats, a lot of people, including Obama himself, are in for a cold dose of reality.

Of course, I still think Obama would win, the republicans will self destruct in a racist, bigoted frenzy...its what they do. Some people will be in for a big dose no-no.

[gmudem]

25. I have to say...fuck you

I'm 19 years old and while I support Edwards, I strongly resent the fact that you assume so many people in my age group out of ignorance. Just because you do not like the guy or certain things he stands for doesn't mean you have to be so dismissive of the people who support him.

I am glad that at least somebody is energizing my age group to vote. Obama is clearly different than a Kerry or a Gore and he represents what could be an incredible change in this country. Like I said I am Edwards man but I would gladly vote for Obama if he is our nominee and I think he would make a great president that would really represent an incredible shift in this country's politics.

People often complain that youth never turn out in the numbers that they should, and that is true. But now that there is finally a candidate who excites young people they are going to be lectured for it? Fuck that.

[stillcool]

26. I have to say....

that was Nice!!
:thumbsup:

[LisaM]

41. Change to what, though? I applaud 19 and 20 year olds getting involved

But the "vote for change" mantra is as old as the hills. Let me say, ANY of the Democrats running would be a pleasant change. But what does Obama represent a change from, or to?

And, if these kids' friends are dying, it's because they've enlisted. No offense to the people in that picture, but they don't look like the pictures of most of the people who've died in the war that I've seen, people who are generally poor, black, Hispanic, from career military families, or kids who either never plan to go to college, or need the money to do so.

I think that they should be more concerned about health care and jobs. We are able to supply the military with bodies because it's a necessary alternative for a lot of people.

I want more substance out of Obama. I don't want reality TV - this feels like the Amazing Candidate Race, or Top Chef or something. What I don't like about those shows is that they compare personalities, tactics, strategies, and sound bites, rather than investigate substance or reward skills and ability. Obama has simply not demonstrated that much substance to me. I have to say, I liked him better before Oprah opened her yap. I told someone Saturday I don't want to vote for an Oprah book of the month.

[whatdoyouthink]

18. I think it is Great to have

Young people more involved -(some even fighting & dying in the war! remember...) but that being said - when i was 21 or so, did i really know? what i was doing? was i being smart, or just going with the crowd? and was i as (Think) informed as i am now!

Maybe some are in line just for the Guys? or Gal's (young women and young men for some of you) on there Winter School Break!

But still good to see young minds (and bodies) at work- just hope? they know what there doing...I sure did not, when i was there age!

[ElizabethDC]

20. I'm a young person (21), and I'm voting for Hillary

I think she can and will get as much done about Iraq as Obama ever would.

[polichick]

21. Even though I've been supporting Edwards lately, feeling that...

...he'd fight corporate interests wholeheartedly, I'm thrilled that young people are excited about a candidate ~ their enthusiasm is contagious and, if Obama gets the nod, I hope Obamamania sweeps the country!

[robbedvoter]

34. I think it's wonderful that Obama inspired them to vote!

[hayu_lol]

43. The amazing thing about the young people's stands on the candidates...

is that none of them ever blame BushCo. Now why is that?

It is always Hillary, Edwards, or the other 74 senators but not Bush.

Bush is the thug in this case.

Now if he had a draft going...watch the youth vote climb to the heavens.

HINT TO OUR YOUTH: Thats the only reason we don't presently have a draft.

[ChiciB1]

45. What You Are Seeing Is Almost The Same Type Of "Celebrity... Spears, Hilton, ETC" Thing

going on. Having been around politics for quite some time, I have seen many young voters support a person simply because they seem to have "star" status. Most of the time it has NOTHING to do with ISSUES. I'm sure there are some who are intense, but for the most part these young people don't actually connect with a politician because of "policy."

If their friend, or a friend of a friend jumps on a bandwagon, that makes it the correct thing to do. Does anyone remember Miss Teen-Age America trying to answer the question about Iraq & maps??

Think about it!