Wesley Clark's diplomatic bumbling created terrorists

[Scott Lee]

We hear alot these days from the Clark camp about Wesley Clark's "experience' in politics. Certainly, one's political resume would have to include events that would confirm such skills in a person claiming to be a good politician. Building concesus is one. Making sure you don't leave a bigger mess than the one you walked into is a another.

When it comes to the end of the Kosovo war and the terrorist group the KLA, Wesley Clark completely failed the test.

A report by the Federation of American Scientists explains:

---------------------

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs99/mu210999.htm

"KLA leaders and the NATO-led peacekeeping force signed an agreement late Monday on the demilitarization of the former rebel army and its transformation into a civilian corps, a statement said. "During the meeting the outstanding issues from the previous night were fully resolved. The new civilian organization will have the full title of Kosovo Protection Corps (KPC). It will work under the direction of the special representatives of the (UN) secretary general" and operate under the supervision of the commander of KFOR, the peacekeeping force, the KFOR statement said. It said, "A limited number of weapons will be available for personal protection and the number of weapons available to KPC personnel responsible for guarding and protection duties has been agreed at 200." In a bid to head off a crisis with ethnic Albanians, NATO sent its top general to Kosovo on Monday to urge KLA leaders to accept a formula for the civilian corps to replace their former rebel army. Gen. Wesley Clark flew unexpectedly to the Kosovo capital after KLA leaders Hashim Thaci and Gen. Agim Ceku refused to sign an agreement accepting NATO's proposed, 5,000-member civilian corps. As part of Monday's signing ceremony, Thaci signed a statement agreeing to the transformation process. Bernard Kouchner then presented to Ceku a letter appointing him as provisional commander of the Kosovo Protection Corps. "KLA personnel will cease wearing uniforms and KLA insignia from midnight Sept. 21," the KFOR statement said."

----------------

The last time something like this happened, the Palestinian Liberation Organization turned into the Palestinian Authority. And the rest is history.

The KLA has ties to Albanian organized crime and that it embraces totalitarian radical Islam of the Osama bin Laden variety. The Strategic Issues Research Institute of the United States has an archive (http://www.siri-us.com/backgrounders/Archives_Kosovo/KLA-Terror-Cleansing.html) of articles about KLA's terrorist activity.

How can Americans trust a man who was given the reigns of diplomacy in a crucial situation, and botched it to such a degree that he made terror instead of helped reduce it?

[whirlygigspin]

1. I hope your wearin' your flame retardent undies!

GO!

[Scott Lee]

5. Certified asbestos ;)

They chafe a bit around the crotch, but other than that a reasonably good wear.

[Cheswick2.0]

34. LOL, I love your sig line

did you ever e-mail Ted that question?

[gulliver]

2. Got any legitimate sources ...

... or is all your stuff based on drivel?

[killbotfactory]

4. AP and REUTERS aren't legitmate?

???

[Scott Lee]

6. Dean owns AP and Reuters, you know

He won them in a leveraged merger, after pulling strings with the Illuminati....

[gulliver]

7. These aren't AP and Reuters!!

Where are you getting that? It looks like both of your links are deep links to nothing much.

[killbotfactory]

15. The page is all sourced from AP and REUTERS

Look at the final lines of each section in between the ( and ).

[gulliver]

17. ROFL -- Bullsh*t

So a link to some BS nothing site leads to a page that says it used AP sources with no links. Gold. Pure gold.

[killbotfactory]

19. The content is nothing controversial...

I don't see why they would fabricate this stuff.

[Turkw]

31. The source of this list, SIRIUS, looks proRW, it is used by FOX and the

executive director was employed by FOX. A lot of the links on the SIRIUS are pretty RW also.

[killbotfactory]

54. the FAS link was all sourced...

I guess the only contention here is if the KLA is a terrorist organization or not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/121818.stm

Doing a search on google.com you can find plenty of lists of supposed KLA terrorist acts. I have no idea if they are true or not, but wouldn't be surprised, and don't know of a credible source of information dealing with the subject.

[Turkw]

66. The real question is Did the voilence and terrorism, by all sides, stop?

both sides had Very nasty and brutal groups. The imediate concern was to put an end to the violence. I hope that all the perpatrators of these terrible acts get brought to justice. I suspect that many, on both sides, will get away scott free.

[arewethereyet]

12. you were hoping for the National Enquirer ?

I prefer Homer Simpson's reaction when things like this come up; doh !

[wndycty]

3. Someone must be scared of Clark. . .

. . .a lot of negative energy has been thrown his way lately. Hmmmmm

[SayitAintSo]

24. Diversionary tactic after Dean pooped in his dog dish this weekend ..

Main thing that comes to mind ....

[BootinUp]

8. OMG! A peace agreement

Why don't you give it up.

[Scott Lee]

10. ...that resulted in a more powerful KLA.

Those guys are terrorists, you know.

[Donna Zen]

35. words:

demilitarized...civilian force under UN...limited to 200 weapons for personal protection...1999...

[Scott Lee]

48. more words

....AlQaeda......Muslim terror.....mafiaso techniques.....KLA

[killbotfactory]

55. "KLA's just alright with me!"

Go Team!

[Scott Lee]

57. I LOVE your sig line! ;)

And doesn't Wesley Clark look earnest there, doing a Go Team with the leaders of one of the most brutal crime gangs in Europe?

[Turkw]

72. Yes, you do HAVE to deal with some terrible people in foreign policy

And you can't always bomb them. Sometimes you have to work with them, even when you don't want to. So if the alternative is let ethnic cleansing and terrorism (brutal acts by both sides) go on, or stop the violence and work with both sides- even the bad guys- the second option is the one to go with. Clark tried to negotiate with the Serbs BEFORE he went to war. They did not want to stop. Clark stopped them all, on both sides.

Or are you saying that the killing and rapeing that the Serbs did was OK because there were bad guy on the other side also?

[BootinUp]

75. They post this kind of trash every couple days to attack Clark

don't worry too much about it. Its the best they can do which says a lot.

[MariaS]

87. Thought you might find this interesting

This is your picture of Clark with the KLA (KLA?)

Not sure who the guy to Clarks right is but the Uniform does look a bit American like. The Man on the far left is Hashim Thaci the only one who was associated with KLA




Here is my Picture of Madelein Albright with some of the same KLA (KLA?)


ALBRIGHT ARRIVES IN KOSOVO FOR ONE-DAY VISIT
Original caption: PRI02D:YUGOSLAVIA-KOSOVO-ALBRIGHT:PRISTINA,YUGOSLAVIA,29JUL99 - U.S Secretary of State Madeleine Albright (C) stands next to Lieutenant General Mike Jackson(L), the commander of the KFOR international peacekeeping force and Bernard Kouchner, the head of the United Nations civil administration as she arrives at KFOR headquarters in the Kosovo capital Pristina July 29, for a one-day visit to the province. Albright, who played a key role in NATO's decision to wage war in the Balkans, came to Kosovo on Thursday and urged Serbs to stay in the province to help create a multi-ethnic society. eb/Photo by Hazir Reka REUTERS

© Reuters NewMedia Inc.

Do you think Britian and the UN would be upset to think they have people hangin with the KLA?

[SahaleArm]

9. There's nothing here other than transfer logisitcs.

Removing you editorial guts the rest of the argument. It's an opinion based on transitive association. Serbs were performing systematic removal of Albanians and later the KLA was part of the trasnfer of power.

[Scott Lee]

14. Clear evidence that Clark doesn't have political skills.

He makes a great soldier. Terrible politician.

[SahaleArm]

21. Huh? n/t

[Scott Lee]

49. I said "clear evidence that Clark has no political skills"

[Turkw]

77. The alternative was let the violence go on, that's what you would want?

Not all the Serbs got brought to justice who should have, either. It is a shame. How would you get all of the bad guys, on both sides?

[SahaleArm]

83. Clear evidence that Clark stopped ethnic cleansing n/t

[MariaS]

11. Why

do you hate General Clark so? It is obvious in every bitter post you make. He is a good man who has dedicated his life to our country. Is this how you will treat our soldiers when they come home? With this kind of disrespect and hatred.

[StephNW4Clark]

13. This I love...

"In a bid to head off a crisis with ethnic Albanians, NATO sent its top general to Kosovo on Monday to urge KLA leaders to accept a formula for the civilian corps to replace their former rebel army"

So assuming the poster complies with standard English grammar, "NATO" sent General Clark to Kosovo. It wasn't General Clark's strategic initiative, nor his idea. He was asked to discharge his duty in a negotiation.

And the point of the negotiation was to disarm the KLA. Are you holding General Clark personally responsible for the evolution of an organization?

And a "bigger mess"? What on earth gives you the right to make that kind of blanket statement with no facts to back it up save for ONE historical analogy? Are you reading about the crisis in the Balkans? Or the nexus of the war on Terror in Albania? No. No one said it was going to be an easy or a short mission - which is why there are still UN peace keepers there. And of course that's why all 19 member nations of NATO concur that the mission was a success.

If you wanted historical perspective, then you would at least recognize that when an enemy fueled by zealous nationalism is defeated, remnants of that will always remain. The measure of success hasn't been the absence of those emotions - which are rarely eradicated - but rather the strength of the affected nation to withstand, weather and eventually wither that nationalistic movement.

If you're going to do a hack job on someone, at least maintain the semblance of intelligence and logical thought.

[Scott Lee]

16. I'd bet a large number of Albanians would rather Clark not have screwed up

Donchathink? His attempt at forging a peace agreement helped fortify and embolden one of the nastiest terror groups out there.

Wesley Clark - a great soldier. Terrible politician.

[StephNW4Clark]

18. Let's see some facts.

Before you go making suppositions about a population you apparently know nothing about.

Because one of the most vocal groups in support for General Clark have been the Albanians, both in the country and back in Kosovo.

But hey - that would involve research on positive aspects of Clark's campaign and clearly not part of your agenda.

[Donna Zen]

38. listening and reading

Are these part of an informed agenda? 1999?

[Scott Lee]

58. Since it happened 4 years ago, does it mean it didn't happen?

I'm curious about the penchant many Clark supporters have for a statute of limitations on reality.

Shall we say that anything a candidate does is out of bounds for discussion after a given date? Why don't you propose one.

[Turkw]

74. Looks like the voilence on both sides stopped 4 years ago, that's good

or would you rather it have continued?

[QC]

41. Who needs facts when you got THE POWER!!!!

[Scott Lee]

50. I almost get the impression that you're angry about something

I don't blame you. I would be too, if my candidate just failed a political test like this one.

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. Failed a political test?

Like this you mean?



The guy who has been sticking his BIG FOOT in his mouth for the last 6 months. Nice pic. don't you think?

[Crunchy Frog]

78. I'm angry because

I think people like you are going to hand the country to Bush for another 4 years.

[MariaS]

22. Who would know better you or them?

Refugees from Kosovo rooting for Wesley Clark for president
Jon Kamman
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 21, 2003 12:00 AM

Half a dozen exuberant children carried a large sign proclaiming "Albanians for Clark" in front of the state Capitol as about 50 supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark drew near.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1221clark-kosovo21.html


Letters from Kosovo: "Thank You, General Clark!"
By johnhlinko
Posted to Albanian-Americans on Tue Dec 23rd, 2003 at 08:39:57 PM EST
"YOU ARE THE ONE THAT STOPPED SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC AND HIS MILITARY FROM SLAUGHTERING ALBANIANS IN KOSOVO."

As General Clark was making the decision to run for President, DraftWesleyClark.com received a number of stirring letters from Kosovo. Here is a selection of them.

-----------------------------------------------------

I am a Kosovo Albanian and I want to thank you for all you did for Kosovo Albanians and I would say to all Americans to vote for the man who saved 2 million Albanian lives and for man who the history of the world will remember always. PLEASE RUN FOR PRESIDENT...YOU ARE A REAL HERO and we (Albanians) will support you because you supported us when we needed it. Thank you very much. You are THE BEST

Valmir Drenovci

Prishtina, Kosovo

-----------------------------------------------------

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT STOPPED SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC AND HIS MILITARY FROM SLAUGHTERING ALBANIANS IN KOSOVO. You are the one that kept together NATO allies during the war in Kosovo. You still have more than enough energy to run for president of USA and make your nation and your country shine among other countries in the world and make once again USA lead in democracy all over the world. In case you decide to run for President (I hope so) you can count on all votes of Albanian Americans in USA. You can also count on support of 2 milion Kosovar Albanians. God bless You, your wife Gert and your son Wes. God bless America and American nation. Please run for President ... Please Mr. President ...

Fatos Krasniqi

Prishtina, Kosovo

-----------------------------------------------------

I am supporting you Mr Clark with all my heart and my family and my Nation is supporting you also.

Arber Myftari

Prishtina, Kosovo

-----------------------------------------------------

General Clark you are doing best thing for your people in USA and worldwide by taking decision to run for presidency. Your skills of the leader you have shown while you were defending my country, from a "butcher of Balkan"-Milosevic. You had tried to stop him throw diplomatic way, but when you have seen it is impossible to talk to him, you used force. You are seen by Kosovars as hero, and I know that you could make new friends starting from Balkan and worldwide. WE wish you all the best, and hope to visit us in Kosova as a President of USA !

Dardan Bekteshi

Prishtina, Kosova

-----------------------------------------------------

Please run for president because you are a peace maker and all Albanians in USA will vote for you because you have a special respect from Albanians in all of the world. WE WON'T FORGET YOU NEVER. Please run for president

ALBAN RUGOVA

Prishtina, Kosovo

http://albanian-americans.forclark.com/story/2003/12/13/191759/04

[LouisFC]

63. I bet

a large number of Kosovars think General Clark saved their lives.

Gerry SMITH continues to send occasional emails from the Balkans and
recently made some observations that are quite laudatory of Wes
CLARK. " As I travel around Kosovo and visit business owners and
presidents, so many have calendars, posters and photos with Wes
Clark's visage in their offices. While they speak with respect of the
Clintons, Holbrookes, and Walkers, they speak with awe and reverence
for Wes. I am always treated nicely by those I visit. Invariably, in
the small talk that follows, Wes Clark comes up and I mention that we
were in the same West Point class. From that point on, I am treated
like royalty even though I point out that I knew him very little. You
would think I was the hero. I am certain they go home that night to
tell the family they met somebody that knew Wesley Clark."
http://www.aogusma.org/class/1966/66notessep01.html

[jmaier]

33. you're being too harsh

intelligence and logic are not prerequisites for authoring an attack thread at DU.

[poopyjr]

20. Thankfully this garbage will be deleted soon <nm>

[Scott Lee]

47. I agree. Somebody's campaign(s) are going to be over

And uh....it won't be Dean's ;)

[Kahuna]

23. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

:boring:

[paulk]

25. it warms my heart

to see a Dean supporter like you, Scott, smearing Clark.

The more supporters of other candidates you manage to alienate, the better. At some point the opposition to Dean will coalesce and the Democratic Party will unite behind a candidate who can defeat Bush.

Good job!

[Lobo_13]

30. Why do Clark supporters sound like the right wing media?

Oh yeah, it's okay for them to try and push someone around, but they piss and moan, and cry foul when someone pushes back.

[Turkw]

32. Why do the Clark attackers use right wing sources and methods?

If this attack had ANY legitimacy it would have used current articles from a neutral group and not stooped to smear.

[paulk]

37. are you somehow insinuating

that I'm a Clark supporter?

Or perhaps a Republican?

LOL!

[Crunchy Frog]

71. Don't worry paulk

anyone who supports a candidate other than Dean is now a Clark supporter, and a closet republican. :eyes:

[lurk_no_more]

45. And Whine to the DNC about being picked on

Oh wait that wasn't Clark, that was that other guy!

LOL


Food for thought from….“JAFO”

[Scott Lee]

51. Yup. We are Dean supporters. We push back. They don't like that.

They'd better get used to it. :)

[Turkw]

68. Go ahead and push, Just stop using smear tactics please.

Why not point out your candidates positive things? Debate the issues? Or is that too much work?

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Pot meet kettle eom

[Kahuna]

43. Yepper. That's how it usually happens. If..

Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards and Lieberman supporters hate Dean so much because of his schtick, they may coalesce to one candidate to make sure he doesn't get the nomination.

[Crunchy Frog]

67. Or more likely

Dean will get the nomination, but he and his supporters will have succeeded in alienating so many people that they will be unable to coalesque around him and take out Bush.

You're working really hard on that Scott. You won't succeed with me because my hatred for Bush is stronger than any garbage that people like you can throw out, but you may end up succeeding with other people. If you are successful, I hope you can live with another 4 years of Bush.

I for one will never forgive this type of behavior if it helps to hand our country to Bush for another 4 years.

[jmaier]

26. Scott,

You'd be mute without Google. Why not a nice pro-Dean thread for a change of pace?

[mitchum]

64. Damn that Google!

[Turkw]

27. I give your propaganda a C-, good misuse of a 1999 report with no

follow up to support your smear about the parallel with the Palestinian Authority. Nice link to a Anti-Kosovo index of articles, it lists the past nicely, starting with WWII and ending, again, at 1999. I have real reservations about the source of this list also,SIRIUS, seems to be very anti-Kosovo. One of it's clients is FOX, for whom the executive director, Ben Works, used to work for.

Haven't you posted attack against Clark before?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toucano]

29. A new low

I refuse to accept this kind of twisted garbage as a reflection on Howard Dean or his supporters. I refuse!

It stoops to virutal obscenity to equate Clark's efforts with "creating" terrorists.

I really hope you find a more constructive outlet for your irrational anger and hate.

[Dookus]

36. I agree...

But I must admit, at times it can be very very difficult not to transfer my anger at smears like this to the candidate in whose name it's supposedly being done.

And I LOVE Ella :)

[neverforget]

61. I hear ya!

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

40. Or at least a strong right arm. eom

[mitchum]

81. or a non-soiled picture of Dean

[QC]

86. Maybe a nice speedo pic?

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

42. LOL, Scotty...how sad

It really is a slow news day isn't it?

Let's see, 2 pieces from 1999...wow...late breaking stuff that. :eyes:

[Jack_Dawson]

44. LOL

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

52. Is there a statute of limitations on screwing up?

Hmmm, I don't see the Dean detractors adhering to one. They bring up something Dean said in 1990 to smear him with now.

Oh, sorry....was I not playing by the one-way strategem here?

[jmaier]

53. Don't fret it, Scott

You do just fine working with your own set of rules.

[retyred]

56. Better to have tried and failed

than to never have had the guts to try at all!

Thanks Scott, this is one I missed. You do keep me amused.



retyred in fla
“good night Paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[Scott Lee]

60. I am happy to have pleased.

[JVS]

82. Well Clark hasn't been doing anything of note since he retired

Except for Republican fundraisers and finally getting around to registering as a democrat

[killbotfactory]

62. Reports on the KLA from Human Rights Watch

google search on KLA

Abuses by the KLA
DETENTIONS AND ABUSE BY THE KLA

Overview of Kosovo Human rights issues

[Turkw]

65. You know the only link that realy means anything is the last one and it

show that a lot of terrible things were going by members of all the different groups. Good thing that Clark helped stop it ALL!

[killbotfactory]

70. I'm not passing judgement on Clark

But it would be nice to hear a rebutal from a Clark supporter that doesn't involve attacking the poster or the sources and ignoring the issue.

[jmaier]

76. I'd be happy to but

I don't even know what the actual issue is here.

Wes Clark while at NATO fought a war to help abate ethnic cleansing. The end of the war required negotiating a cease fire agreement. Cease fire agreements usually involve some give and take. The KLA was encouraged to disarm and agreed more or less to do so.

Clark leaves NATO and retires. Over the years, the KLA mutates into a bunch of thugs and terrorists and continues to do naughty deeds. That seems to summarize the situation.

Now, what is it exactly that you think Wes Clark would have done. Remember, he commanded the military arm of NATO not the political arm. 1) unilaterally, on his own, track down and kill or imprison KLA members; 2) Refuse to retire and remain at NATO against orders indefinitely to combat the KLA.

I'd like to respond helpfully, but I don't know upon what reasonable basis to form a response.

[Turkw]

80. The reports on the KLA date around 1996-1999, Kosovo war was 1999

I think the violence has pretty much stopped, but there is a long and brutal history in the area of horrible things the different groups have done to eachother. The goal is to get them all to stop, forever. It will take a long time.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

73. Scotty baby...methinks

you have way to much time on your hands:

12/29, 8PM
Would the Real Wesley Clark Please Stand Up

12/29, 8:09PM
Clark Covers Lack of Substance With Hollywood Glitz

12/20, 9:37PM
Wesley Clark's diplomatic bumbling created terrorists

You really need to get some help getting over this fixation you have, hon. :spank:

I know it's hard to tear your thoughts away from the best candidate in the field, but the Dr. needs you now like never before...there is a conspiracy going on you know...the DLC is out to get him...man the gate of your wandering loyalty...to arms, to arms!

[Tom Rinaldo]

85. lol n/t

[dae]

79. What is fas.org? Full-a-sh*t.org?

ABBAFR!

[mikehiggins]

84. Does anyone ever read the posted articles?

Including the people who post them? The person who posted this one claims Clark's bungling created terrorists.

"In a bid to head off a crisis with ethnic Albanians, NATO sent its top general to Kosovo on Monday to urge KLA leaders to accept a formula for the civilian corps to replace their former rebel army. Gen. Wesley Clark flew unexpectedly to the Kosovo capital after KLA leaders Hashim Thaci and Gen. Agim Ceku refused to sign an agreement accepting NATO's proposed, 5,000-member civilian corps. As part of Monday's signing ceremony, Thaci signed a statement agreeing to the transformation process. Bernard Kouchner then presented to Ceku a letter appointing him as provisional commander of the Kosovo Protection Corps. "KLA personnel will cease wearing uniforms and KLA insignia from midnight Sept. 21," the KFOR statement said."

So, what do we see? NATO sends Clark in to make sure the KLA people sign the agreement NATO negotiated.

This really is just a case of someone throwing stuff against the wall in hopes that some of it will stick. By this point in the game, everyone knows the rules.

NO points this time but thanks for playing.

[Moderator]

88. Locking.....

This is inflammatory.


DU Moderator