Kucinich explains why he doesn't support Edwards- in an email:

[proud2BlibKansan]

In answer to your questions about why I didn't support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group. While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests.

He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty.

While I indicated Senator Obama as a preferred second choice in Iowa, Progressives have fundamental disagreements with him and all of the other Presidential candidates on most of their major positions on the issues.
We must have the courage of our convictions to fully support and vote for what it is we really want. For once, we must realize our power, stop playing tactical games, and vote as a bloc - which, as you know, is what the religious right does and why they often win.

We Progressives are in the majority in this election. We will win only when we refuse to compromise and vote with integrity.
Dennis Kucinich

[Occam Bandage]

1. Agreed. Edwards' actions match his old rhetoric more than his new.

[still_one]

3. and of course you are speaking objectively? /nt

[Occam Bandage]

5. In a way.

I admit he is my least-favored Democratic candidate running, but that is a result of exactly this. I think his progressive conversion is entirely phony.

Obama was my number 3 choice, so it's not like I'm not open to change. And I'll certainly agree with you that Obama has many flaws of his own.

[still_one]

9. You and I disagree. I think Hillary is much more opportunistic

In the primaries I haven't decided between Obama and Edwards yet. The California primary isn't until Feburary, so I have a little time

The one thing I like about our candidates, even Hillary, is they ALL are extremely smart

Obama was number one in his class at Harvard, and is a Constitutional Law expert

Looking at the mediocrity of the republicans, especially anti-science guy huckabee, we win on IQ alone

I am a firm believer that Iowa demonstrated one thing, if voter turnout is high, the Democrats will win, if not, flip a coin

[Jim Sagle]

2. Dennis is just jealous. He'd rather back a corporatist than a progressive who actually would

implement at least some of what Dennis professes to want.

[MaggieSwanson]

33. Oh, please

Edwards is a PINO (Progressive in Name Only - thanks, GreenArrow) who only mouths Dennis' stances. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Look at his record. Look at what JE says vs what he does.

And if you can't smell a phony, there is nothing I can say to convince you. If he is the nominee, you'll see what I mean.

[Jim Sagle]

35. If that's your belief, fine. I believe otherwise.

And no matter WHO anyone supports, there's always an element of trust.

[ellisonz]

38. Seconded.

Dennis smells a rat.

[Hydra]

4. Whelp, that's it then

I figured the powers that be wouldn't give us a top tier that would really represent us, and so it seems to be.

Meh. People scream about "Where is the America I knew?!" But very little done about it. Sad.

[napi21]

6. Dennis has the right to his own opinion and I'[m glad he explained

why he supported Obama. I don't begrudge Edwards for his connections to that hedge fund. I have a whopping $100,000 in my 401K and if I had the opportunity to make that by $500,000, you bet your sweet.... I would do it in a heartbeat! Edwards has fought against corporations in the courts for a long time and WON!
That is more important than what investments he might have made or that one of his clients was a hedge fund.

[fenriswolf]

7. that response does not sit well with me

first off yes he made alot of money from an investment hedgefund, nothing wrong with that

second yes subprime loans are a recipe for disaster. However having worked in the field if you were upfront on your loan application you are probably not going into forclosure. It is the people who got 100% refinanced on an option arm loan that readjusts and who had probably overstated their income by 50%-100% who are now in forecluse, essentially the people who should not have purchased houses because they could not afford them. It seems short sided on dennis part to look poorly on edwards because of his buisness practices instead of his policy. Or to intrust obama who has made some huge snafus. Sorry dennis but since you don't seem to have a snowball's chance im going with edwards.

ps. at least we would have a successfull buisness man then a failed buisness man in the office (joke)

[GreenArrow]

10. it sits well with me

Kucinich listed a whole handful of issues where Edwards has changed his mind, clearly examining his policy, then topped them off with the Fortress issue. Edwards will say anything to get the job of Presidency, and he's the last candidate in this race I would vote for; he's not running on his own record, he's running on someone else's.

[fenriswolf]

12. do you have a link?

DK listed more reasons? i would love to hear them as of right now I have not heard any any deal breakers about edwards.

[GreenArrow]

17. I was just going to post it, such as it is

Upon rereading it, DK doesn't draw a direct distinction in his number 2 with John Edwards, but reading between the lines, Edwards voted for all those things. I'm not sure those distinctions need be limited to Edwards, but Kucincih did rattle off that whole list in a comment directed at Edwards during one of the debates.

"Dear Supporter,

For the record:

1. New Hampshire is the first state where we are aggressively campaigning. Due to the Party lockout in Iowa, we chose to focus on New Hampshire.
2. I am the only person running for President who voted against the war, against funding the war 100% of the time, against the Patriot Act, and who stands for a universal single-payer not-for-profit healthcare system. Nevertheless I was excluded from Saturday night's ABC Presidential debate, or four tone monologue as it was.
3. In answer to your questions about why I didn't support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group. While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests.

He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty.

While I indicated Senator Obama as a preferred second choice in Iowa, Progressives have fundamental disagreements with him and all of the other Presidential candidates on most of their major positions on the issues.

We must have the courage of our convictions to fully support and vote for what it is we really want. For once, we must realize our power, stop playing tactical games, and vote as a bloc - which, as you know, is what the religious right does and why they often win.

We Progressives are in the majority in this election. We will win only when we refuse to compromise and vote with integrity.

Dennis Kucinich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3969318

[acmavm]

8. Coming from a guy who doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell, and

NEVER DID, sounds like a lot of sour grapes. It's apparently Dennis' was of making himself believe he's a kingmaker I guess.

The only thing is that there are so few Kucinich supporters, who the hell cares?

[MalloyLiberal]

11. Exactly..and many hated his choice of Obama

[forsberg]

13. Kucinich has always had a huge ego

and is a bit of a loudmouth

[tomp]

42. where's the small ego, quiet politician?

name a few, i might change my vote.

[Occam Bandage]

14. And DK goes from Everyone's Favorite Untouchable Hero

to an egomaniacal irrelevant slimebucket overnight.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

18. such is the blind loyality of supporters during primaries

This goes for all the Candidates supporters tho including a number of Obama ones(in regards to other people)

a sad state of affairs i think that once somebody supports an candidate they don't support they have to tear down the said person.

Luckily i guess its usually just a minority in each supporter camp that sees the need to do it.

[Occam Bandage]

22. I agree Obama is not immune to Blind Supporter Disease.

Though, I have to say, they seem the most reasonable now. Of course, I thought the Clinton supporters were most reasonable back when she was leading in all the polls. Perhaps it's a frontrunner thing.

[DLnyc]

15. I like Dennis, but this is a little weak, IMO

A quick look around ( http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=fortress+John+Edwards&kgs=0&kls=0 ) gives me the sense that JE has a bunch of money (knew that already) of which a good chunk is invested in a fund that has THOUSANDS of investments. That some of those investments are in 'bad' corporations is not quite as evil as DK tries to make it sound, I think.

[AlertLurker]

45. I agree, somewhat, BUT:

Edwards didn't just invest a "bunch of money." He invested fully HALF OF HIS PERSONAL FORTUNE, some $16 MILLION in Fortress, a hedge fund which bought out three large subprime lenders from 2003-2005. He also worked for them for fourteen months, for which he was paid $459,000. He then accepted over $150,000 in donations from Fortress's "staff."

This is when "we the people" found out about it, and all he could say was "I didn't know at the time."

Just think about what that small fact implies, for a second.

If you were worth some $35 million, and you wanted to invest HALF of it into something, wouldn't you be pretty careful to know EXACTLY what your $16 MILLION was invested in? If you worked for an investment company for 14 months, wouldn't you have a pretty good idea what kind of investments that company SPECIALIZES in?

This stretches credulity. If he's this careful with his own money, how careful would he be with YOURS? AFAIAC, he's either merely a horrible liar or a huge moron. Or both.

[ulysses]

16. couple of issues with this...

Don't kill me proud, but I have to disagree on a few things here w/ Dennis.

First of all, Obama has at least as many negatives as Edwards for this progressive, and it seems as if he leaves the point of Obama's cons hanging. Secondly, I think we need to get *better* at tactics, not ignore them, because ignoring them is how we wind up with Clintons on the ticket.

Finally, the comparison with the religious right is troubling, because the fact is that they haven't won, not really. The corporate GOP is more than happy to have their votes and will nibble at rr issues like abortion just enough to keep them in the fold, but the nutjobs are starting to wake up now to the fact that they're being played, and have been for years.

My two cents...

[GreenArrow]

21. I suspect that his point was that Obama

has been more consistent in his rhetoric and actions than Edwards has. The list of issues Edwards has changed direction on, usually without explanation, is rather large.

[ulysses]

23. maybe so.

I guess I'm less worried about consistency than I am about possibility.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Hey I am neither agreeing or disagreeing

Honestly, I am a dumbie when it comes to hedge funds and most economic issues. I was just posting this because it came in my email today and I thought it would interest DUers.

I can live with either Obama or Edwards. I am leaning towards Edwards because he is more outspoken against the war and he seems more determined to reject NCLB. (Obama's support of merit pay really turns me off). But I like Obama a lot. I got to meet him last year and was wowed.

And Hillary seems to be coming around on the war. As long as she doesn't flip back on that issue, I can vote for her. But of course, I would much rather see Obama or Edwards on the ballot in November if it can't be Kucinich.

BUT I live in red state hell so my vote won't count anyway. Some days I wonder why I even care. LOL

I am busy working on a governor's campaign and for my neighborhood progressive who is running for a seat in the state House. I might not even work on the presidential campaign, depending on who we nominate.

[ulysses]

27. oy - I'd forgotten about that merit pay thing.

:grr:

You guys back in session yet? We have a teacher word day tomorrow, kids come back Tuesday.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. We went back Wed

I had a yucky Xmas (family shit) so the only good thing about going back to work is now I have other things to be stressed out about. LOL

And Friday we got the word that there is a good chance our school will be closed after this year. Last year they said they would move us to a new site but now they need that site for another program. So we are screwed. It's insane. We are the #1 elem school on the AYP list but they are going to close us. arrghhh

[stray cat]

19. Didn't Nader back Edwards?

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. No he said he wouldn't run if Edwards was the nominee

[mzmolly]

28. And, he criticized Kucinich for backing Obama in Iowa.

eom

[mtnsnake]

20. Ouch! That's shades of the night he almost had Edwards in tears at one of the earlier debates

By the sounds of his letter, he's already having second thoughts about Obama, too. lol

Dennis is back. All of our candidates try to imitate him, but nobody does it like he does. :smoke:

[DLnyc]

24. God it would be nice if some day two progressives could work together on one

thing! For people who talk about working together, about cooperation instead of greed, about the common good, about compassion and caring and looking out for the other guy, about inclusiveness, about non-violence and fairness, it sure seems hard for any two determined, committed progressives to make common cause with each other by compromising somewhat to work toward a larger goal.

Oh well, at least when we are left with a smoldering, bombed-out cinder for a planet, we will each have our idealogical purity to comfort us in the darkness.

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. If these items are facts, then I have no problem with Dennis making them known.

Not at all, in fact. Edwards impressed me slightly last night, but knowing this now, gives his anti-corporate-I'm-a-middle-class-guy schtick a sour aftertaste. Tisk tisk.

I appreciate ALL of the work that Dennis is doing.

Edit: Thanks for posting the email; I was going to do so if it weren't already!

[jackson_dem]

31. Kucinich who?

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. ...

:spray:

[ChiciB1]

32. But To Dennis It Seems He Doesn't Mind that Obama Has Taken So

much Corporate money, and money from many who Kucinich has constantly stated were corrupt!

I think DK is showing some real "petulance" now! God, what is happening to this Democratic Party??

[Bodhi BloodWave]

34. Links to proof of your claims please n/t

[2hip]

36. I hope this is sufficient

$$$...Who OWNS your candidate?...$$$
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3842491

Clinton and/or Obama consistently top the list.





      Edwards '08 tees!

[ChiciB1]

39. Thank You So Much For Providing The Link... I WAS Going To Direct

anyone to the OpenSecrets.org site to check the numbers for themselves!

Thanks again!

[mnhtnbb]

37. Kucinich lost my admiration with his support of Ron Paul. He's starting

to sound like Nader in 2000 and we all know how that turned out.

[slipslidingaway]

41. On Ron Paul...

more here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2612541&mesg_id=2615700

IMO some possible reasons for mentioning Ron Paul are because he has repeatedly attacked the Military Industrial Complex and the Neocons. These are not small enemies to fight.


"...Let there be no doubt, those in the neocon camp had been anxious to go to war against Iraq for a decade. They justified the use of force to accomplish their goals, even if it required preemptive war. If anyone doubts this assertion, they need only to read of their strategy in “A Clean Break: a New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” Although they felt morally justified in changing the government in Iraq, they knew that public support was important, and justification had to be given to pursue the war. Of course, a threat to us had to exist before the people and the Congress would go along with war. The majority of Americans became convinced of this threat, which, in actuality, never really existed. Now we have the ongoing debate over the location of weapons of mass destruction. Where was the danger? Was all this killing and spending necessary? How long will this nation building and dying go on? When will we become more concerned about the needs of our own citizens than the problems we sought in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who knows where we’ll go next—Iran, Syria or North Korea?

At the end of the Cold War, the neoconservatives realized a rearrangement of the world was occurring and that our superior economic and military power offered them a perfect opportunity to control the process of remaking the Middle East..."

[LWolf]

40. I read this earlier today.

It's good to know, and good to know that he answers the questions.

For me, it doesn't excuse Obama or make Obama somehow better, though.

Kucinich will have my vote if he's on my ballot.

Obama will not. HRC will not. Edwards is on the table, for now. This information, obviously, will need some checking and pondering.

[robbedvoter]

43. Works for me - but it'll get shredded on EU....But almost every stand from Edwards

is contradicted by his actions.
Even after apologizing for Iraq, he is urging another war...

[riqster]

44. I am voting for Kucinich in the Primary

... it is important to move the party towards a more progressive platform. We are electing DELEGATES, not candidates, in the primaries.

Plus, he's the only one with the integrity to push for impeachment. All the other wussy Dems are too scared to follow the law and do what they're supposed to do.