Hillary seemed out of touch on the type of "change" people want

[Quixote1818]

People clearly want a President who is going to clean house and shake things up not just push Health Care through. I think everyone knows Obama or Edwards will have just as much skill pushing through a Health Care bill as Hillary. I was waiting for Hillary to say she was going to fight the special interest but instead she focused on what Bill had done in the 90's and attacked Obama for his special interest ties.

I get the feeling the Clinton's are a little out of touch with the pulse and anger of Americans right now. In a similar way that Bush Sr. was when Bill Clinton ran against him in 92. Either that or she knows she can't play that card because she is in with special interest up to her ears.

[Big Blue Marble]

1. When Hillary talk changes, when she runs on her record of change

she is really talking about micro changes. It is hard for her to grasp what Obama is meaning.
He is saying we need to start over, reboot the system. What we have been doing is not working.
He is talking not just about government changing, he is talking about societal change, macro change.
He envisions, whether you agree with him or not, that he is the person to inspire that change.

She can not get that. She is too mired in the past. She's paid her dues. She is entitled to be president.

[Quixote1818]

3. Yes, you said that with a great deal of eloquence. That sumps his message up

nicely.

[lostnotforgotten]

Hopes And Prayers Do Not Policy Make - Obama Is A Lost Cause

Negotiating with Republicans is a non-starter.

We all know this - Look at the last 7 years.

Get real folks!

[Quixote1818]

9. I must admit that I like John Edward's message on change much better

than Obama's. But I do think I understand what Obama is trying to communicate. At least both Obama and Edwards understand how big the problems are. Edwards seems to understand how ruthless and powerful they are though.

Then again, all the candidates might be full of shit but at least Edwards sounds like it's "personal" and his whole campaign is based on taking these fuckers out.

[silverojo]

15. That's why I'm an Edwards supporter

If he can't win, though, I'd certainly support Obama rather than HRC. I was quite impressed with him tonight.

[Skidmore]

34. Obama and Edwards are addressing the same thing from different angles.

Society must move forward and the nuts and bolts of facilitating movement are part and parcel of the same action. We need these two people together because a huge job lies ahead to be accomplished and on many fronts. Both are extremely intelligent and insightful and I believe they have the same vision. We need them both.

[lostnotforgotten]

42. Trouble Is Only One Will Make The Cut - I'll Take Edwards!

eom

[Big Blue Marble]

16. This not about negotiating with Repubs. At least not the ones who

have overrun our government and ripped the very fabric of our society. This
is about building coalitions with in our communities. This is about restructuring
the ways we relate to each other. This is about starting fresh. Obama
has already done this at a grass roots level and wants us to to take to
the national level. This is a lot more about us than it is about him.

We have to do something differently. If we continue to perceive the other half of
our country as enemies, how do we start to solve the major problems that face this
country and this globe. We all need to change. If Obama is a lost cause, then the
United States of America is a lost cause as well.

[SCDem]

31. good post

people who are already on the Obama train realise that we are ALREADY creating change - by making the connections within our community that will last beyond the election and that will help lift the community in coming together to address problems and find solutions. Not only that, there is tremendous skill building going on - community organizing tools!

"WE are the one's we've been waiting for." Jim Wallis' God's Politics

It's not just Obama that I have faith in - it's US.

[Big Blue Marble]

38. That it his gift to us.

He is help us to restore that faith in ourselves and in our country after a time when many of
us felt that the "American Experience" was coming to an end.

[lostnotforgotten]

44. I'll Place My Faith In Fighting Corporations And Republicans Not

In singing "Cum Ba Ya"!

[SCDem]

48. I havent sung Kumbaya

But I have been a force for change since I put faith in myself acting locally since 2003 - (when Dean said to get local) - knocked on over 3,000 doors, organized with my neighbors, advocating for awareness of poverty in my area, getting county council to put funds towards fighting poverty or more importantly creating job access transportation, being trained by our environmental leader of my generation, Al Gore, and giving presentations of his slide show about our climate crisis to over 600 people in our state.

I'm to busy creating change and having faith in the people I am advocating for and to to sing Kumbaya.

[lostnotforgotten]

49. Then Speak To Your Candidate About His Cum-By-Ya Platitudes!

eom

[lostnotforgotten]

43. Hope Your "Faith" Is Not Misplaced!

eom

[lostnotforgotten]

40. Coalitions? - Yea Right - Since When Have The Republicans

Been About Coalitions?

Obama's rhetoric sounds good but in the real world I live in it merely becomes pablum.

The powers that be will never relinquish any power by participating in a coalition.

Instead they will join the coalition to insure that their power is protected.

This decidedly negates the argument that coalitions will "magically" solve this countries problems.

Sorry, Obama's rhetoric rings false to those of us that have negotiated in the real world of powerful interests with money.

[cali]

18. Could you be any more naive?

If JE becomes president, you will see him working with repukes. Get real.

[lostnotforgotten]

41. I Could Ask You The Same Question? Time To Get Real Folks!

eom

[Enrique]

23. that's his message, but it isn't true

no one should really expect Obama to bring about a revolution. His own record in the Senate so far should be a sign.

If Obama is elected, a lot of people will be let down because of course he's not going to achieve the kind of radical change people are talking about. But it's not really his fault. I don't see how people can realistically expect this, what are they basing it on? His "Yes we can!" rhetoric? Wishful thinking?

[creeksneakers2]

32. What macro changes? His objectives don't sound much

different from those of Hillary and Edwards. The big difference between the three is who can best achieve change and what's the best way to do it.

[Yael]

39. "Reboot the system"

Beautiful. Thank you for making this distinction so clear.

[donheld]

2. Hillary hasn't known the change people want

It's one thing to think we want change, it's quite another to give us what we need and want.

[ArkySue]

4. Huh??

"People clearly want a President who is going to clean house and shake things up..."

That sounds like what we ended up with last time.

[Quixote1818]

6. So you are fine with special interest and the good old boy network

running DC? You sound just as out of touch as Hillary is. :eyes:

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Nader is that you?

[Enrique]

25. neither Edwards nor Obama will change that

as everybody pretty much knows.

[Quixote1818]

28. As Edwards pointed out, Teddy Roosevelt pulled such off as President

So it has been done in the past.

Read this story. It shows that some people are willing to put their lives on the line to clean up corruption. Their are good people out there!

http://www.desertusa.com/mag06/mar/murder.html

[Enrique]

30. thanks for that story

that would make a fantastic movie. I hadn't heard about Fountain and Fall.

The problem is that neither Obama nor Edwards is a Radical Republican or a Progressive. They have both served in the Senate, and neither of them has done anything there to indicate that they are such.

The closest we have is Dennis Kucinich, and that's a different story.

[BluegrassDem]

5. Hillary thinks just being a woman is the change everyone wants

She's so clueless. She just think cause she has a vagina, that that's change enough. People don't care about gender or race. They want changes in the system.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Maybe because this "change" thing is the latest buzz word media/net craze

that will burn itself out from over use within next week's news cycle.

[Quixote1818]

10. The media didn't create the "change" buzzword

The people are demanding it after eight years of Bush. America is fed up!

So you are cool with how Bush has been running things and you don't think we need change? :wow:

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Who said anything about bush? You figure Hillary is like bush?

Ever actually looked at the voting record? Hillary actually votes yea or nay. You know, shows up & votes.

Are you the spokesperson for "the people"?

[Quixote1818]

12. You said people don't care about change. Didn't you mean it?

And I am not an Obama supporter, I support Edwards.


>>>Are you the spokesperson for "the people"?

No, just more in-touch than you and Hillary seem to be.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. I don't know what you are talking about, this silly "change" slogan

has emerged just since the Iowa thing. By itself it has no meaning, no definition.

Sure I like to change a lot of things, my underwear, socks, the channel.

[Quixote1818]

17. Clinton won on "change" back in 92'

Believe it or not, the primary messages campaigns come up with have a lot of impact. A campaign has to tap into where the country is or they will lose. Whey else would Hillary be scrambling to retool her message from experience to change? She realized she missed the mark by talking about experience in a time people are fed up with the "Establishment".

Clinton is now taking the "change" thing seriously but I think she is in a position where she can't talk about cleaning up special interest because she is taking too much special interest money. She knows Edwards would jump all over her if she went that route. She is between a rock and a hard place so her "change" message is limited.

Obama is tied to special interest too and that is why he has taken on a more broad, abstract message of change. He really isn't saying much but it sounds good to the uninformed person and because he isn't talking too much about taking down special interest she can't attack him on the kind of change/hope he is offering.

[The_Casual_Observer]

21. You really believe that Hillary wouldn't represent a change from bush?

Or have we jumped right past the next 8 years & now are on to a change from Hillary's Presidency?

[Quixote1818]

22. She would be better than Bush for sure but the people are looking for more

I think people understand that she has limited power to break down the real power brokers in Washington because she is funded by them. You can't solve the problem when you are part of the problem. Perhaps Edwards and Obama are lying sacks of shit who will hold a bone in front of all us dogs and get us all excited about that bone and then they they will pretend to throw the bone but hide it behind their back while we go chasing, looking like fools after a bone that was never going to be thrown in the first place. But at least they are holding that bone out there. Hillary isn't doing that because she can't.

I just hope Obama and Edwards actually give us the bone or attempt to or I will lose any tidbit of hope I have for this country.

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. There's more to have hope about this country than whether or not

special interests are pushing for favorable legislation. Anyway, would congress have more to do with that kind of change/reform?

[Quixote1818]

27. Post #20 makes better points than I am making

And you are right about having hope for other things. Actually the pendulum will eventually swing back if things get too bad. It always does sooner or later. Too bad Jefferson and Madison didn't get their way with the 11th amendment they proposed. Limiting the power of corporations and preventing them from monopolizing or giving money to candidates.

[dailykoff]

13. Hillary is going to play the same old terra game she's played

along with for the last six years. And billy boy for eight. Forget that shit. I want prosecutions, not more valentines to halliburton.

[K8-EEE]

19. there's been a Clinton or a Bush in the WH for 27 years

I know that's not her fault and she was only there for 2 terms but it does seem Dynasty-ish. And I'm not a Hill and/or Bill hater. I'm just sayin'.

[Perry Logan]

35. Yea, but why screw things up for ourselves just because the Bushes were bad?

[murielm99]

20. I believe that there is no common definition

of the change people are asking for.

Some people think it is a major government shake-up. Others think it means health care and getting out of Iraq. Still others think it is prosecuting all the current republican criminals. Given the large numbers of them, that could take a very long time.

Did you notice that several of them used the word "bipartisanship?" I cringed every time they said it. To me, that is not change! To the current crop of republicans, bipartisanship means biting, kicking and backstabbing. As a party, they will have to be retrained before there can be any bipartisanship. That could take even longer than prosecuting all the criminal republicans.

I think Senator Clinton is a logical, thinking person. I think it is legitimate for her to think that her type of change has been going on for the last 35 years. Obama and Edwards, equally worthy in their own ways, have a more emotional message. Their type of change means something different. Edwards' bases his change on his personal feelings, and the people he has always fought for. He would get rid of lobbyists. Obama bases his change on hope, and the things that unite rather than divide us. He said all that very well in his convention speech four years ago.

I believe that Senator Clinton was not dismissing this year's election theme, change, but trying to define it and pin it down to something concrete.

Maybe we all need to ask ourselves what we mean by change.

I haven't decided which candidate, and which candidate's version of change I am going to support.

[Quixote1818]

24. You make a lot of good points

I am looking for a little bit of all three types of change but I fear for this country if the corruption isn't cleaned up. Reagan started this mess and they have so much power now it seems almost impossible to beat the power brokers now.

[earth mom]

29. Hillary's a hypocrite. She's got corporate money coming out her a$$, yet she calls Obama

out on his corporate ties.

Best be pointing those fingers at yourself Hillary. :grr:

[Perry Logan]

33. You might want to check the definition of "hypocrisy" before throwing the word around.

Hypocrisy - "the assumption or postulation of moral standards to which one's own behavior does not conform."

[earth mom]

36. Okay, so let me put it in plain english: Hillary is a whore & so is Obama.

whore (hôr, hr)
n.
1. A prostitute.
2. A person considered sexually promiscuous.
3. A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

[kurth]

37. There ya go

[RichGirl]

45. The Clintons are out of touch????

Are you forgetting that Bill is the only one who has actually been president. I think he would know more about how much change is possible than the others. He went into the presidency innocently thinking that the president had the power to make change if he wanted it and was willing to work for it. That innocence got him impeached. All the good intentions in the world isn't going to do as much good as knowing how to deal with the republicans and their ability at character assasination. Hillary will be ready for it. Edwards and Obama will be blindsided.

Notice how the republicans have nothing to say about Obamas past cocaine use, muslim connections, etc. They are saving it. Loading their cannons with it.

[ProudDad]

46. Wheeras - the corporate republicans have no real problem

with hillary.

She's their kind of shill...

And the evangelicals have NEVER been enough to elect a republican president...they never have, never will...

[ProudDad]

47. She sounded like a f*cking idiot

Change, I am change, I change, spare change...

What a dork...

Obama wiped the floor with her last night...